Thank you, Guza! I am in no mood to see a funeral for a 4 year old. Nor did I need to see Elizabeth cradling her dead 4 year old's body in the middle of the street. THANK YOU for skirting around those issues.

Little Joss is a future Emmy winner. I loved her scene with Shawn. I think Shawn is her future stepfather.

NuEmma is a 10,000% improvement over old Emma.

Most defiently for the simple fact that she actually ACTS in her scenes with the adults. The old Emma sually just sat there with teh same blank expression on her face

I agree. I think in the depths of grief she can only feel her own guilt. I think as time passes she'll probably blame Luke more for the drinking. But any mother would blame themselves in Liz's place. A 4 year old doesn't belong on a street at night. It's never going to matter to her that it could have happened to anyone. It's like when a kid is kidnapped and the parent only looked away for a second. How do you ever forgive yourself for that second? I think this could continue to be a good story for BH if the writers choose to write it.

Maybe but they need to show us this. Too much is being left up to the viewer's interpetation. They are doing a decent job of exploring the ramifications for Jason, Carly and Luke but Liz is falling flat. She shows up mid episode for a scene or 2 but it doesnt register bc theres little content with her. She's barely a supporting player in any of this. Dont tell me she is feeling guilty. SHOW me that she is

Watching the show right now and I echo previous comments. WTF with not showing the memorial service?

Lucky STILL hant had a scene with Liz since the day Jake died?

Edited March 31, 201114 yr by Cheap21

Maybe but they need to show us this. Too much is being left up to the viewer's interpetation. They are doing a decent job of exploring the ramifications for Jason, Carly and Luke but Liz is falling flat. She shows up mid episode for a scene or 2 but it doesnt register bc theres little content with her. She's barely a supporting player in any of this. Dont tell me she is feeling guilty. SHOW me that she is

What does feeling guilty look like? How do you SHOW that?

Sonny will shoot quickerthan the hit man with a heart of gold....in recent times, when he believed Karpove was behind shooting Kate / Micheal...Jason tried to tell him he didn't do it but Sonny killed him anyway...then it was like Oops! wrong guy...he also shot at Lorenzo twice (both was justified he thought Carly was in danger and in his office) and of course his son...

You can always tell when Sonny's wrong - that's when he shoots. When he's right…… btw, when is Sonny right?????

Suzanne though, wow that woman is smooth. Remind me not to get a massage from her. She sliced that throat with a smile on her face. My daughter asked "what just happened?" When I told her she said she thought so, but the woman who did it seemed to enjoy it. I really hope Suzanne goes psycho - they are often the most fun characters.

For me Elizabeth has been written "awful" in this they continue to write her like a teen IMO...she should have been "allowed to be angry" at the man who killed her son...yes I blame myself but he ran him over I'd be furious yes I may forgive him for drinking and driving but it certainly wouldn't be immediate...and anticlimatic she apologized and was so sappy it prompted me to call the comment line. I know I will never see a fiesty Elizabeth Webber as long as Frons/Guza is at the helm, but damn. This is a misogynistic mess she's telling the inebriated man who killed her kid

hey its O-Kay cuz its all my fault, I'm to blame. They have watered Elizabeth down so much it pains me to see her on the screen the writing for her is just so horrid its beyond reason. Where is the drama for "her" Yeah I know Lucky got to be angry and get good material but Elizabeth has gotten "nothing" in this story but Kudos to Becky she worked the crap they gave her.

DragonF...I knew it would be as soon as he popped up first in the promo and when they inserted Carly's Joss in it I went ... there goes the writing for Elizabeth I got a bit excited when she slapped Jason and I went OK that's good but true to formula quickerthanthis she backstroked...then I got the St. Jasus treatment Elizabeth kowtowing and Carly endlessly thanking Jason for giving his god daughter the kidney from "his son" you know the one he didn't give a rat's ass about.

Considering all of this was taped with the plan to have Liz go insane and need to be locked up, I think it does make sense. I just wish TPTB had been allowed to keep with the original stories. It's these rewrites and cuts that make the show look so bad, and then the writers are blamed when what we see wasn't what they wrote in the first place. I've seen from reputable insiders that much of the reaction to Jake's death was cut, the build up, juxtaposing Sonny's happiness with Jason's loss, possibly even the funeral all because they now had to put Elizabeth back into the story. I wonder what it would have been like if we'd actually seen what the writers had created.

Edited March 31, 201114 yr by remos

What does feeling guilty look like? How do you SHOW that?

I dont know, but one can maybe start by showcasing the character in the story?

+1 cheap

Considering all of this was taped with the plan to have Liz go insane and need to be locked up, I think it does make sense. I just wish TPTB had been allowed to keep with the original stories. It's these rewrites and cuts that make the show look so bad, and then the writers are blamed when what we see wasn't what they wrote in the first place. I've seen from reputable insiders that much of the reaction to Jake's death was cut, the build up, juxtaposing Sonny's happiness with Jason's loss, possibly even the funeral all because they now had to put Elizabeth back into the story. I wonder what it would have been like if we'd actually seen what the writers had created.

I think this story would have failed even without cuts, because there was no buildup. Building up Sonny's happiness against Jason's loss wouldn't work for me because Jason and Jake barely interacted and because Steve Burton is incapable of playing the material.

It feels to me like this story is just about deifying Jason, yet again, and also about some sort of strange, strident "I told you so," type of writing. It's as if the main point is to take a shot at those who believe raising a child while being in the mob is dangerous. Over and over various characters have said, "See? Jason walked away from his son, and his son died anyway!"

Guza doesn't care about the emotions IMO. I think back to stuff like Georgie's murder, which was used to have Maxie verbally abuse Felicia before Felicia slunk out of town without a trace.

What does feeling guilty look like? How do you SHOW that?

I think they have shown it. She's apologizing to everyone she sees. She apologized to Luke (before she knew he was drinking), which made complete sense to me. If I were driving along sober and going the speed limit and hit a 4 year old at night, I would be livid at whomever allowed that kid in the street. I like to think I would take it up with the shrink I would need, instead of the kid's mother, but I would definitely feel it.

Liz was right, killing a child would be a terrible thing to have to live with for the rest of your life, but once she heard Luke was drinking her demeanor completely changed. I thought Becky did a really good job in that scene. I could feel her go cold, but at the same time, it really doesn't matter because her little boy is still dead. Liz is the walking dead right now, I think that makes a lot more emotional sense than being "feisty" at this point in the story.

I think this story would have failed even without cuts, because there was no buildup. Building up Sonny's happiness against Jason's loss wouldn't work for me because Jason and Jake barely interacted and because Steve Burton is incapable of playing the material.

It feels to me like this story is just about deifying Jason, yet again, and also about some sort of strange, strident "I told you so," type of writing. It's as if the main point is to take a shot at those who believe raising a child while being in the mob is dangerous. Over and over various characters have said, "See? Jason walked away from his son, and his son died anyway!"

Guza doesn't care about the emotions IMO. I think back to stuff like Georgie's murder, which was used to have Maxie verbally abuse Felicia before Felicia slunk out of town without a trace.

+1 million! You nailed it.

Thinking back to Georgies murder, it really made no sense. Like you said, it wassimply used to bring Felicia back to further destroy the character. And making the killer Diego made I even more pointless because Diego would have never killed Georgie? Kidnapped her to keep her quiet? Maybe. Murder? Absolutely not.

As for those "cuts", I don't believe it has anything to do with it. They could have easily stuck with the original stry. Liz could have had a complete mental breakdown and been ushered off canvas for a month or two, and then written back in as part of BHs new contract.

The fact of the matter is that this story was never supposed to be about Jake or his true parents. It was always going to be about the father who abandoned him and rarely loked back at any time when he wasn't writing a check. I had a feeling that's what this story was about, and I was assured of it when JASON was the only one to get a flashback of Jake. Not Elizabeth who raised the child every day, and not Lucky who for most of Jakes life was a very active father.

And this was further proven when Jakes memorial was not shown simply because Jason the coward didn't want to take away from Lucky and Lizs "moment". Funny how he had no problem taking away their moment when he was harvesting their sons organs.

Oh and then there is the fact that Lucky and Liz haven't shared one scene since th day Jake died. Lucky didn't even go see her when he found out Luke hit Jake. Not only is that sloppy, unemotional writing, it is completely out of character.

So anyone can say this story is choppy and sucks because the fans demanded BH be rehired, but it isn't the case. A real writer could have written around it and used it to make the story even better.

So there's my piece.

Edited April 1, 201114 yr by SoapBoy94

I think this story would have failed even without cuts, because there was no buildup. Building up Sonny's happiness against Jason's loss wouldn't work for me because Jason and Jake barely interacted and because Steve Burton is incapable of playing the material.

It feels to me like this story is just about deifying Jason, yet again, and also about some sort of strange, strident "I told you so," type of writing. It's as if the main point is to take a shot at those who believe raising a child while being in the mob is dangerous. Over and over various characters have said, "See? Jason walked away from his son, and his son died anyway!"

Guza doesn't care about the emotions IMO. I think back to stuff like Georgie's murder, which was used to have Maxie verbally abuse Felicia before Felicia slunk out of town without a trace.

But there's more Jason by default - and we haven't had the 5 minute walking montage equivalent. How much Liz/Lucky/Nic/Brook stuff was cut that would have balanced it out? We will never know.

As for the other example you give about Maxie going to town on Felicia - that was cut all over the place too. Felicia was supposed to be much more involved and then nothing.

It has to be remembered in all of this that the scripts are written weeks in advance, then taped 3-5 weeks before we see anything. It's not like the show has much opportunity to put new material in at the last minute the way they can cut material at the last minute. Keeping BH was a mistake on a few levels - and I think storywise with Jake's tale is one of the biggest.

Look at the Toxic Balls debacle - the story that Winnifred was telling through her interviews looked interesting but what we got was all botched because somewhere along the lines everything got cut and hacked to pieces.

I'm not saying that's always a bad thing - looks like the Balkan story is over do to the same cutting and slashing in the editing process. All I'm suggesting is that PERHAPS there was more balance and more to the story than we were given all because one character had to be changed and being a pivotal character in this tale, meant a lot of her stuff was removed taking the story with it.

Edited April 1, 201114 yr by remos

I definitely see what you are saying, and I didn't mean my post as anything against you. You know I love ya Mama!

All I was saying was that I don't think it was necessary to cut Liz out like this. You are talking about these cuts and how it makes things choppy, and I'm sure that's true. But obviously BH's contract was up in March (as her last tape date was supposed to be March 18th), and she would exit in April. When the decision was made to keep her, it shouldn't have affected the storyline. If it was already written, as you suggest, then it could have been kept. And Becky could have stayed. They could have said "Hey, we're not going to get rid of Liz...But we're sticking to this storyline. Liz will have her mental breakdown and go away, but we're going to usher you back in two months" or something like that.

So, while I see what you're saying, I think a more creative and capable writing/production team would have restructured the story differently and played on it in a more enhancing way, instead of chopping everything to pieces.

I'm sorry, remos - I didn't mean to overlook your point. You're right, editing can play a part. I guess for me, the characterization in the long term can overcome editing, and that's where I think the story is lacking. They had 3-4 years with Jason and Jake and a year and a half with JJLucky and Jake and in both cases decided to distance both men from the child entirely. The problem with this is what is left? If I don't believe the core relationships then the material won't work for me, even if the writing was exquisite.

I think the other problem here is the inclusion of people like Sonny and Carly - they didn't ever care about Jake so more focus on them than on most of the Spencers seems detached.

Michael's reaction is also a distraction. While I guess I can praise the show for writing Michael true to character - a sociopath - it just makes Jason look stupid that he sacrificed so much for someone who, thanks in part to him, has no soul.

I would rather have seen Michael more upset about Jake's death and make him believe that Jason can never feel the way about him that he felt about Jake.

Edited April 1, 201114 yr by CarlD2

Considering all of this was taped with the plan to have Liz go insane and need to be locked up, I think it does make sense. I just wish TPTB had been allowed to keep with the original stories. It's these rewrites and cuts that make the show look so bad, and then the writers are blamed when what we see wasn't what they wrote in the first place. I've seen from reputable insiders that much of the reaction to Jake's death was cut, the build up, juxtaposing Sonny's happiness with Jason's loss, possibly even the funeral all because they now had to put Elizabeth back into the story. I wonder what it would have been like if we'd actually seen what the writers had created.

my issue with them is this... GH is only 2-3 weeks ahead in taping. they knew by the time all of this was going down she was staying, so why not tweek it? or just go with it, let her go insane, and then bring her back. they cut, edit, and rewrite stuff at the last minute all the time, so why not for Liz for this storyline? Because this storyline was never about Liz. It was about creating a reason for Jason and Sam to have a baby, IMHO. I bet in a matter of weeks they will be talking about it.

the editing is awful, due in large part to cut scenes. they cut a few scenes of Maxie, of Liz, and of Sam that i know of.

I agree with all of that, JackPeyton! They just do not like Liz, it seems.