Y&R has no core families now as far as I can see. The Chancellors are Katherine and a bunch of mouth-breathing ciphers she props. The Abbotts have no interest in each other. The Winters show up a few days a month to wring their hands over Lily or play out a script from 2002. The only ones who are written as being related are the Newmans, and that's only based on all-knowing Victor and the petulant brats who don't know their place.

I would put Y&R's ratings down to timeslot and Rauch/MAB/Sheffer being adept at stunts to get attention. The cast still has some standouts but is by and large the worst its ever been IMO, thanks to a lot of wasted talent, lazy actors, bad actors, and horribly miscast roles. I also wouldn't call the cast all that stable. If it was then Y&R would not feel the need to constantly stunt cast. Stunt casting is code for "We don't like our actors; they're not good enough."

I'm also not sure how a show can be vet-heavy when only one of them (Victor) ever has a storyline. Do you count Phyllis, Nick, or Sharon as a veteran? I guess you can, but since Nick is written as a frat boy and Sharon is written as a brain-dead ingenue it's not exactly the same situation as what ATWT had with Kim or Bob or Dan all those years ago. If anything Y&R suffers from characters who refuse to act their age. There is no tier system at Y&R, which is what a good show should have. The 40somethings act like twentysomethings, so do the 30somethings, and so on.

+1.

Ed Scott needs to return PRONTO!

Carl, I agree with many of your points but not time slot. If 12:30 EST were so great shows like Loving, The City, PC, and Generations would have stuck. By now, NBC and ABC would have shifted the remaining 1pm shows back 30 minutes. For that matter, Y&R would have ranked first long before the 1990s.

For better or worse, the writers have weaved Kay a 'modern family' of association, a group of inter-connected friends with Jill, Cane, Billy, Chance, Nina, Philip (starting back when she tried to steal him in the 1980s),Tucker, Ester, and Cloe is even treated like a grand daughter. Kay collects strays and her character has never known the difference between blood and water--like when se tried to buy baby Philip in the late 1970s.

Also Carl, age in the era of botox is sort of silly when you have a fairly fit crew. Phylis may be a few years older than Nick; however, older men have always dated younger women. 50 is the new 40, or so they say. What does the term 'act their age' mean anymore, exactly? Also, poorly aged caracters like Jill, Gloria and Nina are filling the old school void like Bob and Kim.

LML, I believe, wanted to fade out the Abbot family and replace them with the Fisher/Baldwin clan which might have been a sound idea. The Abbots, like the Winters minus Dru, are boring. I blame te writers to a certain extent but also think the characters (as well as actors) lost any appeal long ago. It was painful to watch Jack Smith cram them into the Jabot board room like 9 years ago.

Anyone know the real reason why LML was pushed out? She was far better than the current regime and the ratings were pretty stable. I remember she was able to stop Jack Smith's losses.

Edited February 15, 201114 yr by Saving ATWT

Kay collects strays

No. She doesn't.

The only time Katherine "collects strays" is when Y&R needs to prop useless characters.

Example: The Ostrich, Gloria, Amber, Kevin.

But it doesn't matter since Y&R's history is constantly disregarded & destroyed for inane fanfic.

LML, I believe, wanted to fade out the Abbot family and replace them with the Fisher/Baldwin clan which might have been a sound idea. The Abbots, like the Winters minus Dru, are boring. I blame te writers to a certain extent but also think the characters (as well as actors) lost any appeal long ago.

WOW.

Just WOW.

Anyone know the real reason why LML was pushed out?

Cause she sucked.

Edited February 15, 201114 yr by DeeeDee

WOW.

Just WOW.

WOW, as in those Lays chips from the late 90's/early 00's made with Olean that made you have explosive diarrhea? Because yeah, that kind of WOW is quite applicable to such typed nonsense.

I could believe that Katherine might want to help Amber, and, on some level, I could probably buy it with Chloe, but Kevin and Gloria, I don't buy for a minute. These people were wolves at the door of Katherine's close friend John Abbott, Kevin is a headcase with a record as long as his arm and a permanent case of not-my-fault-itis, and Gloria - I saw some of yesterday's show with Judith Chapman shoved into an ugly pink gown which must have come from Brenda Dickson circa 1985. Katherine would loathe her. Katherine would make her life hell until she crawled out of town.

Not to mention that, whether the show remembers it or not, Gloria and Kevin both schemed to make Katherine think she had dementia so they could get her money. This was only two years ago!

WOW, as in those Lays chips from the late 90's/early 00's made with Olean that made you have explosive diarrhea? Because yeah, that kind of WOW is quite applicable to such typed nonsense.

The first thing Y&R should do is work out some kind of deal with Beth Maitland, whereby she can come on the show that much more often.

Then they should refocus attention on the Abbotts as a counterpoint to the Newmans. And by "the Abbotts," I don't mean Billy and Phyllis (as Jack's sidekick) being total airhogs. I mean Jack, Ashley, Traci, bring back a recast Dina Mergeron in a recurring capacity, heck, bring back Jack's forgotten child, too.

Then I would bring in a lot more business SLs to counterbalance all the so-called "love stories" and Hogan's House of Horrors crap (aka Ashley being tricked into thinking she was still pregnant, Jana and Lauren imprisoned and tortured in an abandoned fairground, Phyllis trying to be sexy, etc). For that to happen, the Abbotts need to recapture complete control of Jabot. I wouldn't mind Jill involved in that either.

Rauch's many failings have been listed here, not least his firing of many key actors and his inability to envisage a SL for the Winters (and playing hardball with Kristoff). One small thing I liked was his use of incidental/background music on the show. Not enough to offset all the Wrong, but I liked it. And I honestly do not believe the Wrong is entirely down to rauch, either. That lies squarely with MAB. One can point to Hogan Sheffer for some of Y&R's recent excesses, but MAB is his boss and she happily indulges him cuz he's totally super-fun in meetings.

The problem with the Abbotts is that those who are left have rarely seemed like a believable family. Billy openly loathes and sneers at everyone in his family and that won't change as long as Billy Miller is in the role. Ashley and Jack have never been close. Abby is a Newman. The only family relationship I buy is Ashley/Traci. I think they should build on that, and I would also have Traci move back to GC and adopt a child (no not Daisy's spawn). I don't really see a reason to keep Jack around now.

I think MAB just passes the buck and the only material she cares about is garbage like Cane's "death" and random pointless cameos like LLB's. Rauch and Sheffer and their many hostilities towards non-sociopathic white men carry the day.

Edited February 15, 201114 yr by CarlD2

Ashley and Jack have never been close.

Jack & Ashley have been very close but their relationship has been reduced to Grambo & Fisher Baldwin propping.

Edited February 15, 201114 yr by DeeeDee

I guess I don't remember much of a bond in recent years. It seemed like after Eileen's 1999 return they moved more towards Ashley being closer to Victor and having more and more issues with Jack.

Their relationship was fine (not perfect but fine) until Jack Smith decided they had no use beyond judging each other when not propping Grambo/The Baldwin Fishers and/or accusing each other of murder.

It's only gotten worse with Aunt Jack using his relatives as weapons & Ashley reduced to a glorified extra for Adam's sociopathy & insta redemption.

Edited February 15, 201114 yr by DeeeDee

WOW, as in those Lays chips from the late 90's/early 00's made with Olean that made you have explosive diarrhea? Because yeah, that kind of WOW is quite applicable to such typed nonsense.

Wow--that must have been messy. Clearly you've yet to recover from those intestinal issues seeing as you are always shooting so much [!@#$%^&*]. Lay off the chips because crap should never fly out your mouth ;0

The Winters, minus Dru, are the most boring family in soap land. Neil and Olivia were props for Dru and Malcom. Indie storylines, such as Neil's alcoholism, were John Abbot kind of boring, and far from must see TV. Lilly, the current familial focus, is so weak that she makes dying of cancer while about to have twins look lame.

The Abbots had already lost their footing BEFORE the return of Ashley in 1999. Tracy is a dead end character; John was dead weight; Ash a head case with a bad Victor addiction; Aunt Jack a Victor prop: Gloria was about the best thing to happen with the family in that she added some much needed tension as well as humor. I see why LML was keen to phase these characters out and adding more attention to Lauren, Michael and their tribe.

You don't think that dead end is more likely to be characters who killed or were involved in the deaths of 2-3 characters in only a year?

The Baldwin Fishers Rappadavidsoning Y&R is a good thing?

LOL

You don't think that dead end is more likely to be characters who killed or were involved in the deaths of 2-3 characters in only a year?

I'm talking early/midway throug LML's writing. Both John Abbot and Ashley were dead weight and I liked the on going battle between Jack and Gloria. I also liked the class conflict, something rarely sown on soaps anymore. As for the death's/murders--Gloria's make up thing was an accident and Kevin is an abused semi-mental case. Overall, it felt like LML was going to make Lauren and Michael's family a main pilar of the show. I still see these two characters as a great building block. Bringing Scotty into the mix might have been wise, too. Laren and Michael are a mature, solid couple. Gloria, Kevin and the rest make for good background noice.

I've watched the show for years but only really liked Y&R during the LML time. I could cope with MAB stuff up until the 'big' Adam baby reveal. Now the show is far from must see tv for me.