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Thanks for the info re Jane.

I wonder if that story was a writers strike effort, in that by focusing on Sally's past and bringing in those characters they could keep going without altering Bill Bell's template for the main characters?

In a May 79 Variety article CBS daytime changes were discussed.

Mike Ogiens vp daytime announced expansion of Y&R due to loss of MASH reruns in daytime and suffering  in not programming at 1pm.

The new lineup

noon Local

12.30 - 1.30 Y&R

1.30 - 2.30 ATWT

2.30 - 3.30 GL 

3.30 - 4 SFT

4 - 4.30 LOL

They obviously rethought that schedule.

So as far back as May 79 Y&R was preparing for the expansion. I had always thought it was much later and Bell/Alden/Conboy were under the gun to deal with the changes.

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28 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Thanks for the info re Jane.

I wonder if that story was a writers strike effort, in that by focusing on Sally's past and bringing in those characters they could keep going without altering Bill Bell's template for the main characters?

In a May 79 Variety article CBS daytime changes were discussed.

Mike Ogiens vp daytime announced expansion of Y&R due to loss of MASH reruns in daytime and suffering  in not programming at 1pm.

The new lineup

noon Local

12.30 - 1.30 Y&R

1.30 - 2.30 ATWT

2.30 - 3.30 GL 

3.30 - 4 SFT

4 - 4.30 LOL

They obviously rethought that schedule.

So as far back as May 79 Y&R was preparing for the expansion. I had always thought it was much later and Bell/Alden/Conboy were under the gun to deal with the changes.

I am betting anything from summer 73 was writer's strike material. Bell's projections would have been there, but he just wasn't writing the daily scripts. Then of course the show lost approximately two or three weeks over spring/summer due to Watergate pre-emptions. 

In terms of the move to an hour. It was supposed to happen in autumn 79 and was pushed back twice apparently, and this was at Bell's insistence as they said they were not ready. So yeah probably they were under the gun and asked for more time. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, will81 said:

 

@Paul Raven I have a 1979 interview with Kay Alden I will post when I can find it. She mentions she and Bell write the show with one other person. I assumed it was John F. Smith but I guess it was Kathleen. 

Here it is from February 1979. They mention the other script writer is in Los Angeles. Though since this is from Feb I guess this was before Kathleen joined. Elizabeth Harrower was there from at least 1977, not sure when she left to do Days, so maybe it was Liz and then Kathleen came on in the summer and left in 1980 to do Texas, and that is when Jack Smith came aboard???

 

Jason's first known credit for Harrower at Days is May 2, 1977. She was credited as head writer from February 27, 1979 through March 14, 1980, though she was effectively fired two months earlier. (Nina Laemmle was announced as incoming Days head writer in late January 1980.)

It appears Days' handling of Harrower cost them Wes Kenney. He quit in January 1980 and an interview with him that month quoted him as saying it was the head writing situation. Kenney was quoted as it being Ann Marcus (there prior to Harrower), but it seems to be a gaffe on his part.

Edited by Titus Andronicus
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Titus Andronicus said:

Jason's first known credit for Harrower at Days is May 2, 1977. She was credited as head writer from February 27, 1979 through March 14, 1980, though she was effectively fired two months earlier. (Nina Laemmle was announced as incoming Days head writer in late January 1980.)

It appears Days' handling of Harrower cost them Wes Kenney. He quit in January 1980 and an interview with him that month quoted him as saying it was the head writing situation. Kenney was quoted as it being Ann Marcus (there prior to Harrower), but it seems to be a gaffe on his part.

Oh right, thanks for that info. Maybe she was writing on both in 1977 as she is listed as a writer on a May 09, 1977 script for Y&R (though that is the airdate so the script was obviously written in April) or maybe this was her last Y&R credit for 1977. I know she returned to Y&R by 1982 or around that time. 

Oh so wait Kenney was on Y&R at the same time Elizabeth was in 1982. She was there until about 1984/85 when Sally Sussman became a script writer (she had previously been a story consultant only, from 84 she was both)

Edited by will81
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All of that business with Jane Wilcox, Frank, and Sally seemed to be WAY off-track regarding the actual storyline, which of course was the triangle of Chris, Snapper, and Sally.   I could never tell if it was merely "writers strike material", or if it was a device Bill Bell designed to postpone the marriage of Snapper and Chris, realizing that although the audience wanted to see them married, their marriage would likely be fairly uneventful and dull, effectively killing the appeal of two of his major "finds" (William Grey Espy and Trish Stewart).

In hindsight, I'm pretty pleased with the culmination of the Joann/Kay Chancellor storyline.  I appreciate that Bell left a certain amount of ambiguity in Kay Chancellor's intentions toward the girl.    Yes, Kay declared that her feelings toward Mrs. Curtis were maternal, but Kay Chancellor was a character known to lie.  Bell seemed to wink at the audience and say, "It's up to you whether or not you believe Kay Chancellor."   Audience members who were horrified by lesbianism or bisexuality obviously chose to believe Kay's assertion that her feelings were maternal; the rest of said, "Yeah, right."  lol.  

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35 minutes ago, Broderick said:

All of that business with Jane Wilcox, Frank, and Sally seemed to be WAY off-track regarding the actual storyline, which of course was the triangle of Chris, Snapper, and Sally.   I could never tell if it was merely "writers strike material", or if it was a device Bill Bell designed to postpone the marriage of Snapper and Chris, realizing that although the audience wanted to see them married, their marriage would likely be fairly uneventful and dull, effectively killing the appeal of two of his major "finds" (William Grey Espy and Trish Stewart).

In hindsight, I'm pretty pleased with the culmination of the Joann/Kay Chancellor storyline.  I appreciate that Bell left a certain amount of ambiguity in Kay Chancellor's intentions toward the girl.    Yes, Kay declared that her feelings toward Mrs. Curtis were maternal, but Kay Chancellor was a character known to lie.  Bell seemed to wink at the audience and say, "It's up to you whether or not you believe Kay Chancellor."   Audience members who were horrified by lesbianism or bisexuality obviously chose to believe Kay's assertion that her feelings were maternal; the rest of said, "Yeah, right."  lol.  

I do think much of the summer of 73 was probably a diversion until Bell could get back and write the show. He would have known the strike was coming up and maybe put some things in place so the strike writers couldn't mess things up too much. 

It seems like a somewhat uneventful summer from the pieces I have been able to put together but not a waste by any means

Chris was most likely at Legal Aid with Greg pining away and Snapper attempting a reconciliation. She finds out Stu is paying her salary and quits

Liz was probably in the hospital with her cancer story (And Jill was probably playing supporting to that - maybe her mysterious boyfriend Brent was added at this point) Maybe this health scare pushed Chris and Snapper back together shortly before her rape which happened in either late Sep or early Oct

Jen and Bruce may have reconnected but I doubt anything significant happened

Leslie and Brad would have been hanging out and doing the Pygmalion/My Fair Lady story and I am sure he was pushing her to play piano professionally. I do believe Leslie's big summer story was trying out for a symphonic ochestra and getting a place and going on tour in the autumn

Sally and her diversion with Frank, though Bell did use this story as motivation for Sally to get pregnant to Snapper

So there was movement, but I assume it was slow and nothing heated up again until September when Bell's scripts were most likely airing (I think the strike ended in Aug or around there)

As far as the lesbian story. yes I do think Bell intended Kay to be bisexual but did what many Hollywood writers did during the Hays code years did and made it subtext.

On Days there was the story with Eric Peters when his brother Greg finds out he has a young, attractive man living with him. I believe the way it played out, Bell had the audience and Greg intially believe the two were lovers, and there were always rumours about Stanley Kamel. I think those in the know probably saw Eric as gay or bi and his "roommate" as his lover, regardless of whatever was explained on screen.

 

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23 minutes ago, will81 said:

Liz was probably in the hospital with her cancer story (And Jill was probably playing supporting to that - maybe her mysterious boyfriend Brent was added at this point) Maybe this health scare pushed Chris and Snapper back together shortly before her rape which happened in either late Sep or early Oct

That was the story that brought Ma Henderson to town?

It always seemed odd to me that that character was brought on (never to be mentioned again) Liz always presented as an 'elderly' character, although she was only 44 in 1973. 

What 44 year old looks like that nowadays? Of course she was supposed to present as careworn.

However Dorothy Green (Jennifer) was 53 and presented much more 'with it' to use a 70's term.

Although I always found her overly tanned and blonded looks a little harsh.

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My feeling is that the purpose of "Ma Henderson" (and her brief appearance) was just to cement that Liz Foster and Bruce Henderson were siblings.   It seemed that Bill Bell put a lot of thought into the Henderson family -- Bruce Henderson, Mrs. Regina Henderson, Mark Henderson and the never materialized but heavily previewed Russell Henderson -- and wanted to be sure we understood they were Liz's relatives, although they existed in a different socio/economic sphere of the show.  

I've always felt that the tanned/blonde/bored Jennifer Brooks and the bored Regina Henderson were merely "prototypes" of a certain character that Bell really WANTED to write, but couldn't locate *exactly* the correct actress or *exactly* the correct characterization he was seeking.  He ultimately found his actress (Jeanne Cooper) and his characterization (drunk, bored, haughty, vain, needy, resourceful, vengeful).  The Kay Chancellor character kinda made both Jennifer and Regina obsolete, and Bell's attitude seemed to be "off with their heads".    

 

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11 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

That was the story that brought Ma Henderson to town?

It always seemed odd to me that that character was brought on (never to be mentioned again) Liz always presented as an 'elderly' character, although she was only 44 in 1973. 

What 44 year old looks like that nowadays? Of course she was supposed to present as careworn.

However Dorothy Green (Jennifer) was 53 and presented much more 'with it' to use a 70's term.

Although I always found her overly tanned and blonded looks a little harsh.

I assume this is when Ma Henderson and Bruce came to town. Robert Clarke joined Y&R in May 1973 and I would guess their Ma came at the same time. Yeah I think Liz was supposed to be worn out and aged from raising three children and doing manual labour at the factory. Jen was upper middle class, but yes Dorothy seemed a very 70's mod California socialite compared to what I assume many woman in the mid west might have looked like back then

 

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56 minutes ago, will81 said:

IOn Days there was the story with Eric Peters when his brother Greg finds out he has a young, attractive man living with him. I believe the way it played out, Bell had the audience and Greg intially believe the two were lovers, and there were always rumours about Stanley Kamel. I think those in the know probably saw Eric as gay or bi and his "roommate" as his lover, regardless of whatever was explained on screen.

 

Yeah, I thought Eric Peters (on Days) and Kay Chancellor were both bisexual characters, and that Bill Bell was just "edgy" enough to slide that on through to our screens, without beating us over the head with it.   Of course in the case of Kay Chancellor, there was always the issue of her fundamental, unfulfilled loneliness -- and her desperate need to be loved -- that  made her sexual preferences and motivations a bit murkier. 

Wasn't there also a more flagrant storyline on "Days" during this same time period when Wesley Eure's character flat-out questioned his heterosexuality?  (I didn't watch "Days" as often as I watched Y&R, so perhaps I'm mistaken.)  But I'm pretty sure it was about 1976 or 1977, and Mike Horton had pretty much decided that he was gay.  Linda Patterson "cured" him, and he forged ahead as heterosexual, although the actor was who played Mike was gay and the seeds had been planted in the audience's mind that perhaps the character was bisexual as well.   

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32 minutes ago, Broderick said:

Yeah, I thought Eric Peters (on Days) and Kay Chancellor were both bisexual characters, and that Bill Bell was just "edgy" enough to slide that on through to our screens, without beating us over the head with it.   Of course in the case of Kay Chancellor, there was always the issue of her fundamental, unfulfilled loneliness -- and her desperate need to be loved -- that  made her sexual preferences and motivations a bit murkier. 

Wasn't there also a more flagrant storyline on "Days" during this same time period when Wesley Eure's character flat-out questioned his heterosexuality?  (I didn't watch "Days" as often as I watched Y&R, so perhaps I'm mistaken.)  But I'm pretty sure it was about 1976 or 1977, and Mike Horton had pretty much decided that he was gay.  Linda Patterson "cured" him, and he forged ahead as heterosexual, although the actor was who played Mike was gay and the seeds had been planted in the audience's mind that perhaps the character was bisexual as well.   

Yeah that was around 1975??? I think. He couldn't make it with Trish and thought he might be gay, but indeed Linda did "cure" him. 

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13 minutes ago, will81 said:

Yeah that was around 1975??? I think. He couldn't make it with Trish and thought he might be gay, but indeed Linda did "cure" him. 

It went down in August 1976. There were a couple episodes from that month on YouTube awhile ago that featured the scenes where Mike went to Linda's and discussed his inability to 'get it up' for Trish, heavily implying he was gay with that eyeroll-worthy euphemism "less than a man" being bandied about, before Linda took him to bed to prove to him otherwise. He then became like a lost puppy dog, following Linda around for the next 6-8 months, while Linda desperately tried to shake him off. 

Mike was a 'sensitive' type, and deeply harmed by finding out his dad was actually his Uncle Bill, and not Mickey, who raised him. So he took his anger out on his mother Laura, mostly, and I think he was also reticent to sleep with Trish because he was aware of what a slimeball her stepfather was and how he perved on Trish growing up, so he sort of wanted to "protect" her, and the thought of having sex with Trish felt like taking advantage of her, to some degree. At least, that's what I've gleaned from what I've read/seen.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks, folks!   I was a fan of Wesley Eure (mainly from "Land of the Lost" on Saturday mornings), and was pretty sure I'd witnessed Wesley being "less than a man" on Days of Our Lives during that same time period, until Linda came along and got his all of his man parts operating again, lol.  

[That entire episode seems to be based on the 1953 Broadway play "Tea & Sympathy" where the boy in prep school feels "less than a man" and is tormented by a more aggressive male whose sympathetic and understanding wife eventually pops the sensitive boy's cherry.]   

 

Edited by Broderick
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1 hour ago, beebs said:

It went down in August 1976. There were a couple episodes from that month on YouTube awhile ago that featured the scenes where Mike went to Linda's and discussed his inability to 'get it up' for Trish, heavily implying he was gay with that eyeroll-worthy euphemism "less than a man" being bandied about, before Linda took him to bed to prove to him otherwise. He then became like a lost puppy dog, following Linda around for the next 6-8 months, while Linda desperately tried to shake him off. 

Mike was a 'sensitive' type, and deeply harmed by finding out his dad was actually his Uncle Bill, and not Mickey, who raised him. So he took his anger out on his mother Laura, mostly, and I think he was also reticent to sleep with Trish because he was aware of what a slimeball her stepfather was and how he perved on Trish growing up, so he sort of wanted to "protect" her, and the thought of having sex with Trish felt like taking advantage of her, to some degree. At least, that's what I've gleaned from what I've read/seen.

Thanks for the details. So this was a Pat Falken-Smith story. I had seen a clip at some point but it was fuzzy in my memory. 

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11 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

 

The new lineup

noon Local

12.30 - 1.30 Y&R

1.30 - 2.30 ATWT

2.30 - 3.30 GL 

3.30 - 4 SFT

4 - 4.30 LOL

Thanks for sharing this one @Paul Raven ! This line-up actually makes more sense although it does look like CBS was sending off SFT to a death slot as well along with LOL but at least SFT would have bridged a gap.

I always have noticed a lot of CBS stations in the late 70’s actually bumped Y&R to that empty 1PM slot so they could air noon newscasts always wondered how that aided Y&R’s growth at that time even when AMC become #1. 

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