15 minutes ago, I Am A Swede said:

The highlighted sentence is the reason why you and I will never agree on this subject. 

I enjoy satire and comedy, not realism or family drama.

1 hour ago, I Am A Swede said:

The highlighted sentence is the reason why you and I will never agree on this subject. 

Uh, no highlight. 

 

1 hour ago, I Am A Swede said:

1 hour ago, EdibleFlowers said:

JER wrote an exciting and interesting Days. In fact, NBC had the best soap lineup of the 90s with Days, Sunset Beach, and Passions (as far as I’m concerned, Passions is the greatest soap opera of all time). 

You must understand that JER is *the* definitive Days writer for an entire generation. He wrote the show properly. I remember reading SOD back when I had a subscription and seeing that soaps like GL, ATWT, AW, GH, and AMC were terribly boring. 
 

 

The highlighted sentence is the reason why you and I will never agree on this subject. 

Oh, there it is! I disagree there, too. Most do. But I also disagree with .... see new bold. As if! My favorite all time soaps in order are: AW, GL, Santa Barbara. 

8 hours ago, I Am A Swede said:

The highlighted sentence is the reason why you and I will never agree on this subject. 

Lol Me too! I like My soaps with Their feet on reality! The fact passions surpassed DS and DOOL when it came to craziness says it all! That show was compelling for it's fabulous cast!

In the preview thread, there was a discussion of the future of the Hortons.  As a fan, I've never valued maintaining a family of characters just for nostalgia, and the Hortons are a perfect example.

Bill and Micky never excited me, and I think Laura was the key to that triangle.  I never saw Marie as a twenty-something, but her nun period was hardly thrilling.  Addie was cool, but never really competition for Julie.  Then you have the boring generation of Melissa, Sandy, and Jessica, none of whom lit the world on fire.

Mike and Scott were variable based mostly on who played them, but they both lacked specific characteristic traits.  I only liked Jennifer during her initial pairing with Jack, who was problematic.  And Lucas never evolved out of his bratty stage.

Hope and Julie are the only Hortons that I enjoyed.  Hope is arguably more of a Brady at this point because of her kids.  And Julie, as played by SSH was really only the lead from 1968 to the mid-70s before she left in 1984, which in the history of DAYS is a relatively short period of time, 

In the 2020s the problem seems to be that the future of the family rests on Jennifer and Hope's kids, and Abby's dead, Shawn-D is in rehab, JJ's arc was a bust, and Ciara is with Ben.  I don't wish for random relatives to suddenly move to Salem so that they become Hortons in name only, because they have no shared history with the family.  So, there's not much of a loss for me to mourn.

Edited December 18, 20231 yr by j swift

26 minutes ago, j swift said:

In the preview thread, there was a discussion of the future of the Hortons.  As a fan, I've never valued maintaining a family of characters just for nostalgia, and the Hortons are a perfect example.

Bill and Micky never excited me, and I think Laura was the key to that triangle.  I never saw Marie as a twenty-something, but her nun period was hardly thrilling.  Addie was cool, but never really competition for Julie.  Then you have the boring generation of Melissa, Sandy, and Jessica, none of whom lit the world on fire.

Mike and Scott were variable based mostly on who played them, but they both lacked specific characteristic traits.  I only liked Jennifer during her initial pairing with Jack, who was problematic.  And Lucas never evolved out of his bratty stage.

Hope and Julie are the only Hortons that I enjoyed.  Hope is arguably more of a Brady at this point because of her kids.  And Julie, as played by SSH was really only the lead from 1968 to the mid-70s before she left in 1984, which in the history of DAYS is a relatively short period of time, 

In the 2020s the problem seems to be that the future of the family rests on Jennifer and Hope's kids, and Abby's dead, Shawn-D is in rehab, JJ's arc was a bust, and Ciara is with Ben.  I don't wish for random relatives to suddenly move to Salem so that they become Hortons in name only, because they have no shared history with the family.  So, there's not much of a loss for me to mourn.

I agree with a lot of what you posted. For me, the problem was that TPTB never bothered to really nurture and commit to the Hortons over the years, which has left us with fractured family we have now. When Pat Falken Smith returned in 81 she recognized that and had plans to keep the Hortons viable by intertwining them with the new families, but that soon went by the wayside.

The casting of Sandy in the 80's, the neglect of Steve and David, bringing on Scotty too soon, the bland recast of Melissa and so on-in nails in the coffin.

The success of Jennifer was down to an appealing actress and front burner stories(even if some of them were bad) Same with Hope.

As I have said many times, if Deidre had have been cast as Sandy things would have been very different as a popular new actress would have been part of a core family.

In 1976 would it have been viable for Tommy Horton to have a grown daughter suddenly appear in Salem?

Also, families like OLTL's Lords, or AMC's Martins have a legacy because important events happened which influenced future generations.  I would argue the Hortons are missing that element.  For example, The Bradys are shaped by the rivalry with the Dimeras, and even though that history has changed over several writers, that was the core identifying feature that drove every generation.  The Hortons are mostly do-gooders with some odd sibling relationships in the second generation,  But, even that had no effect on Hope and Jen, or anyone after them.

Edited December 18, 20231 yr by j swift

21 minutes ago, j swift said:

n 1976 would it have been viable for Tommy Horton to have a grown daughter suddenly appear in Salem?

Yes. Heather North , the last actress to play Sandy was 2 years older than Deidre, but presented younger so the casting would be fine. Having a new young leading lady as part of the family at the time the Bill/Laura and Doug/Julie stories were winding down would have been perfect timing.

 

24 minutes ago, j swift said:

Also, families like OLTL's Lords, or AMC's Martins have a legacy because important events happened which influenced future generations.

Can you elaborate?

The legacy of Victor Lord influenced Victoria, Tina, David, and Jessica in a way that Alice Horton's doughnuts could not compare.  As I noted, despite Bill, Micky, Addie, Tommy, and Marie all having compelling sibling rivalries, it had no lasting impact on the relationship between the cousins of later generations.  For example, Jessica and Hope's relationship was not informed by Addie and Marie's conflict.

Edited December 18, 20231 yr by j swift

I feel like the Hortons actually had a bit of a resurgence for a bit there...Abby, JJ, Will, Allie, Eli were all successful characters in certain ways, but now they're all gone. There's something about that ornament hanging, as cheesy as it is, that gives me a certain sense of comfort.

My opinion is that under the current regime the Dimeras have eaten the show. They were better in small does, in my opinion, or just focused on Chad/ EJ. 

Every now and then, I'll check out part of an episode, but I just can't get back into the show as much as part of me wants to. I'm so tired of the latest Eric/Nicole round. Kristen feels played out. And, don't get me started on Leo. Besides Liam on B&B, he has to be the most irritating character on daytime.

13 hours ago, EdibleFlowers said:

I enjoy satire and comedy, not realism or family drama.

Then why are you watching Days?

3 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Then why are you watching Days?

I was talking about Passions. I like Days for its outrageous, over the top storylines and larger than life characters like Eileen’s Susan, Bonnie, and Andrea’s Hattie.

4 hours ago, 1974mdp said:

I feel like the Hortons actually had a bit of a resurgence for a bit there...Abby, JJ, Will, Allie, Eli were all successful characters in certain ways, but now they're all gone. There's something about that ornament hanging, as cheesy as it is, that gives me a certain sense of comfort.

My opinion is that under the current regime the Dimeras have eaten the show. They were better in small does, in my opinion, or just focused on Chad/ EJ. 

That’s one of the problems with the show right now: everyone at the top is over-utilizing their favorites and under-utilizing everyone else. Not even just Ron, but fired guy as well. 

Abby/JJ, Will/Allie, Shawn/Ciara, Eli, along with the Brady kids and Evans-Black family, should be leading the show right now. But instead we get Leo 🤮🤮🤮

Edited December 18, 20231 yr by AbcNbc247

The focus on the Dimeras is all fired guy.

Speaking of the Dimeras, they are a good example of what the Hortons shouldn’t be. We’ve got characters with no onscreen connection to Stefano (Stefan, Dimitri). We’ve got familiar names played by bad actors who aren’t even written in character (EJ, Kristen). We’ve got characters returning after 40 years (Megan) that most of the current audience doesn’t know or care about. We’ve got this mess of a Dimera Enterprises retcon (Stefano wasn’t a businessman, he was more of a mobster). We’ve got lies about the nature of this family as well as Stefano’s legacy (they weren’t a close knit family, most of the children didn’t grow up together, he wasn’t a dark version of Tom Horton [he allowed one of his sons to murder another son], etc.). 

Stefano’s legacy isn’t Dimera Enterprises, his legacy is kidnapping Marlena and coming back from the dead. 

That’s the mess the Hortons would be by bringing back forgotten characters like Sandy, Spencer, and Scotty. You can’t just slap the Horton name on someone and pretend they’re a real family.

21 hours ago, EdibleFlowers said:

I enjoy satire and comedy, not realism or family drama.

If you want satire and comedy then "Soap" would be a better choice than "Passions"

 

Edited December 18, 20231 yr by I Am A Swede

11 hours ago, j swift said:

Bill and Micky never excited me, and I think Laura was the key to that triangle.  I never saw Marie as a twenty-something, but her nun period was hardly thrilling.  Addie was cool, but never really competition for Julie.  Then you have the boring generation of Melissa, Sandy, and Jessica, none of whom lit the world on fire.

Here, my experience is so different but I'm almost positive that I watched the show in real time & you have only seen it on YouTube. I was suitably entranced with both Bill & Mickey. Marie & her love for Alex & her vocation were galvanizing stories to me. Addie was such a huge character. Loved the actress. She got in Julie's way with Doug so often & irritatingly. Then of course her illness, being Hope's mother, on & on. Sandy & Jessica, I gotta give you those two. But teen Melissa was huge. Lisa Trusel could walk in the room right now & I would want to sit & talk to her. The teens that made up so much story were Melissa & Hope & Jenn. 

11 hours ago, j swift said:

Mike and Scott were variable based mostly on who played them, but they both lacked specific characteristic traits.  I only liked Jennifer during her initial pairing with Jack, who was problematic.  And Lucas never evolved out of his bratty stage.

Mike was strongly written through three actors - Wesley Eure, Michael T. Weiss & Roark Critchlow. Scott was also well played by different people. What made the difference with these guys was to me the writing & they all had it in spades. 

11 hours ago, j swift said:

Hope and Julie are the only Hortons that I enjoyed.  Hope is arguably more of a Brady at this point because of her kids.  And Julie, as played by SSH was really only the lead from 1968 to the mid-70s before she left in 1984, which in the history of DAYS is a relatively short period of time, 

Doug & Julie are to me, huge. SSH, of course, was my first soap crush. I can't say enough about them most of the time that they are present. 

Here, Maggie is very important. Tom & Alice were also important. Lots of story there. I love that Peter Reckell in adlib mode came up with both Fancy Face & Mrs. H. 

So to me the Hortons are not issues of nostalgia, but actual show history.