8 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Being an Alamain just gave John a boatload of money (which I believe he already had a ton from IzzyB croaking) and some business stories.  That's extremely boring lol.  It might be the least exciting place to go for that story.

It also seemed to come from out of nowhere, since I don't recall John having had much to do with Lawrence or Vivian up to that point.  For me, it was an odd and disjointed way to blend two storyline bubbles into one.

By the way, I won't argue with you that making John and Roman twin brothers was the cleanest and easiest way out of the mess.  Again, though, it seemed like TPTB wanted to avoid what was sensible and simply shock the audience into tuning in, which set a bad precedent, IMO, for what was to come.

Here's a thought: what if TPTB had kept Dee's return under wraps and instead had brought Wayne back first?

9 minutes ago, Khan said:

It also seemed to come from out of nowhere, since I don't recall John having had much to do with Lawrence or Vivian up to that point.  For me, it was an odd and disjointed way to blend two storyline bubbles into one.

By the way, I won't argue with you that making John and Roman twin brothers was the cleanest and easiest way out of the mess.  Again, though, it seemed like TPTB wanted to avoid what was sensible and simply shock the audience into tuning in, which set a bad precedent, IMO, for what was to come.

Here's a thought: what if TPTB had kept Dee's return under wraps and instead had brought Wayne back first?

I don't recall John having much to do with Lawrence either, but I remember Lawrence creeping on Carrie and John was involved in that.  I can't remember if this was before or after John became an Alamain though.

Very interesting idea about Roman coming back first.  That might have worked better?  I could imagine John trying to fight for custody of the kids with Isabella and trying to keep his job while proving he was the 'real' Roman.  I felt a lot of those beats were dropped because Marlena was involved and John wouldn't do that to her.  Then Marlena comes back to 2 husbands lol.  Unfortunately I don't know how it would change the outcome.   I don't see any scenario where Marlena would not go back to Roman under any circumstance unless they made Marlena pregnant by John instead of Isabella.  I guess the show could have went in the direction of looking into Marlena's disappearance and finding out her and RoJohn had a kid or something.  In theory the whole Roman/John/Marlena story could be reversed with John/Marlena staying together and her having an affair with Roman instead or John having an affair with Isabella

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

Very interesting idea about Roman coming back first.  That might have worked better?

Well, IDK whether the story would have worked any better - Gene Palumbo was just not the writer for a story like "A Tale of Two Romans" - but if the idea is that Drake's Roman is not the real Roman and that Wayne's Roman is still alive, then that's what you lead with first.  Then, at a certain point in the story, you lower the other boom: Marlena is alive, too!

God bless Dee, but I think she put DAYS in a very awkward spot by insisting that Wayne return as well.  Either she could have returned without Wayne, or the show could have taken its' chances and replace Drake with the man he had earlier replaced, but trying to satisfy Dee and hold onto Drake at the same time was always going to be a challenge, no matter how good the story.

Edited May 8, 20223 yr by Khan

4 minutes ago, Khan said:

Well, IDK whether the story would have worked any better - Gene Palumbo was just not the writer for a story like "A Tale of Two Romans" - but if the idea is that Drake's Roman is not the real Roman and that Wayne's Roman is still alive, then that's what you lead with first.  Then, at a certain point in the story, you lower the other boom: Marlena is alive, too!

God bless Dee, but I think she put DAYS in a very awkward spot by insisting that Wayne return as well.  Either she could have returned without Wayne, or the show could have taken its' chances and replace Drake with the man he had earlier replaced, but trying to satisfy Dee and hold onto Drake at the same time was always going to be a challenge, no matter how good the story.

Yeah, and kind of a huge FU to Drake?  Like "Thanks for doing a nearly impossible job by taking on a recast of one of our most popular characters, having great chemistry with everyone including Deidre Hall, being super popular yourself, and an overall likable guy, but we are gonna replace you now lol  It will all work out fine....."  If I was Drake I'd probably still be bitter at Dee.  I assume Dee thought it sounded great on paper and was trying to help her good buddy out, but it was NOT a good idea.  I am not going to speculate on what Dee/Drake's relationship was like back then or early on, but it's such a weird demand.  It's almost like she wanted to dictate her own story and screen partners.

There were definitely more psychological beats they could have played with John vs. Roman.  John raised those children longer than Roman or Marlena, John got the promotion, John probably paid more mortgage payments on that home, he was there through Kayla, Bo, Kim's struggles etc. etc. etc.  He wasn't pretending to be Roman-he was actively living a full, productive life as Roman.  And that whole angle was dropped.

2 hours ago, janea4old said:

The "John Black FAQ" as of May 30, 1999, by Dustin Cushman

Page 1
https://web.archive.org/web/20160407025253/http://www.soapoperafan.com/days/misc/johnfaq.html

Page 2
https://web.archive.org/web/20150905232611/http://www.soapoperafan.com/days/misc/johnfaq2.html

Page 3
https://web.archive.org/web/20150908090152/http://www.soapoperafan.com/days/misc/johnfaq3.html

Cheers!

This has actually made me realise that I mixed up a bit of Rachel Blake's story with Princess Gina's story in my earlier post.

So to clarify: The 1996 explanation was that Stefano had brainwashed John because Rachel had told him about the Blakes, 1999 was that Stefano had gotten to Forrest very early and turned him into his Pawn and Forrest/John was never a priest.

 

 

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

I don't recall John having much to do with Lawrence either, but I remember Lawrence creeping on Carrie and John was involved in that.  I can't remember if this was before or after John became an Alamain though.

It was literally during. John found Carrie and Lawrence in bed together about to do the deed and in the ensuing confrontation John pulled a gun on Lawrence and Lawrence was like "You wouldn't kill your own brother!"

6 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Yeah, and kind of a huge FU to Drake?  Like "Thanks for doing a nearly impossible job by taking on a recast of one of our most popular characters, having great chemistry with everyone including Deidre Hall, being super popular yourself, and an overall likable guy, but we are gonna replace you now lol  It will all work out fine....." 

But, look on the bright side: if DAYS had dropped Drake, he might have landed fairly quickly at another soap.  (My money says AMC.  He would have been a good fit over there, I think.)

1 minute ago, Khan said:

But, look on the bright side: if DAYS had dropped Drake, he might have landed fairly quickly at another soap.  (My money says AMC.  He would have been a good fit over there, I think.)

I actually think he might have wound up on primetime.  I could easily see him as a dopey husband on some sitcom or some lead in a MacGyver like show.  He just seems like someone who would have a mildly successful show and work on primetime in unmemorable roles for years.  That's not even a diss.  I just think he would have moved on to other things pretty easily even though he's not a great actor.

8 minutes ago, Dion said:

Cheers!

This has actually made me realise that I mixed up a bit of Rachel Blake's story with Princess Gina's story in my earlier post.

So to clarify: The 1996 explanation was that Stefano had brainwashed John because Rachel had told him about the Blakes, 1999 was that Stefano had gotten to Forrest very early and turned him into his Pawn and Forrest/John was never a priest.

 

 

It was literally during. John found Carrie and Lawrence in bed together about to do the deed and in the ensuing confrontation John pulled a gun on Lawrence and Lawrence was like "You wouldn't kill your own brother!"

That's sounds like a pivotal scene lol.  To be fair, when I start watching 1992 my eyes immediately glaze over because the stories are awful.  And I mean, it was TM's Carrie.  I don't think her actions even count lol.  I still don't know what the show was going for there.  I think it might be the initial prototype for Sami when they cast her as Carrie.

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

I actually think he might have wound up on primetime.  I could easily see him as a dopey husband on some sitcom or some lead in a MacGyver like show.  He just seems like someone who would have a mildly successful show and work on primetime in unmemorable roles for years.  That's not even a diss.  I just think he would have moved on to other things pretty easily even though he's not a great actor

Yeah, I could have seen him make the jump to primetime. Didn't he have that studio contract at one point? Somebody thought he'd be good for those kinds of roles then & he'd have to be better than he was by virtue of several years of experience.

11 minutes ago, Tonksadora said:

Yeah, I could have seen him make the jump to primetime. Didn't he have that studio contract at one point? Somebody thought he'd be good for those kinds of roles then & he'd have to be better than he was by virtue of several years of experience.

I believe he got cast as Shelley Long's husband in some CW series, but couldn't do it because of Days.  I think he has some sort of development deal with a network after he did 7 brides for 7 brothers.  He's one of those actors who is charismatic enough to maybe pull off a big career or not get recognized at all lol.  He fell into a happy medium with Days.

3 hours ago, Khan said:

It also seemed to come from out of nowhere, since I don't recall John having had much to do with Lawrence or Vivian up to that point.  For me, it was an odd and disjointed way to blend two storyline bubbles into one.

This reminds me that Vivian had only been on canvas for about two months at the time of the Forest Alamain reveal. Later in 1992, we'd get the Nicky is Carly & Lawrence's son stuff, but I wonder if they were danging some red herrings about John/Forrest being Vivian's son?

1 hour ago, Khan said:

But, look on the bright side: if DAYS had dropped Drake, he might have landed fairly quickly at another soap.  (My money says AMC.  He would have been a good fit over there, I think.)

Oh, good choice! And there was a prominent new male role available in 1991, Dimitri. Or was the character established before the Tale of Two Romans got started? Ah, either way, Drake would have done fine on AMC

56 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I actually think he might have wound up on primetime.  I could easily see him as a dopey husband on some sitcom or some lead in a MacGyver like show.  He just seems like someone who would have a mildly successful show and work on primetime in unmemorable roles for years.  That's not even a diss.  I just think he would have moved on to other things pretty easily even though he's not a great actor.

Oh, Miller-Boyett would have loved Drake. I also have to laugh at you mentioning MacGyver, since Drake and Richard Dean Anderson played kin on 1982's Seven Brides for Seven Brothers.

 

19 minutes ago, Franko said:

This reminds me that Vivian had only been on canvas for about two months at the time of the Forest Alamain reveal. Later in 1992, we'd get the Nicky is Carly & Lawrence's son stuff, but I wonder if they were danging some red herrings about John/Forrest being Vivian's son?

Oh, good choice! And there was a prominent new male role available in 1991, Dimitri. Or was the character established before the Tale of Two Romans got started? Ah, either way, Drake would have done fine on AMC

Oh, Miller-Boyett would have loved Drake. I also have to laugh at you mentioning MacGyver, since Drake and Richard Dean Anderson played kin on 1982's Seven Brides for Seven Brothers.

 

Didn't Deidre Hall also date RDA for years?  Lol.  I knew RDA was in it as well.  Although I personally think RDA is more conventionally handsome.  They seem very similar to me.

I didn't know that about Deidre and Richard!

4 minutes ago, Franko said:

I didn't know that about Deidre and Richard!

Idek, but it's true lol.  

You get it Dee!!  MacGyver is a score especially back then.

Also what the hell is that intro to Seven Brides?  That looks so chintzy even for 1982 standards lol..

Drake doesn't really bring European count vibes the way Michael Nadar does, but I am sure a role could have been tailored to him.  He would have been great with Susan.  He has a good history of doing well with soap divas lol.

Edited May 8, 20223 yr by carolineg

Aw, the couple looks so adorable together. That Seven Brothers intro makes me laugh because I'd swear most of the guys are on the same horse.

32 minutes ago, Franko said:

Aw, the couple looks so adorable together. That Seven Brothers intro makes me laugh because I'd swear most of the guys are on the same horse.

They are an attractive couple.   I am hesitant to ask if Seven brothers was still a musical lol......

Dee also dated Quinn Redecker for awhile and well he's a silver fox I guess.  Her taste varied (waiting for the lesbian/Jane Elliot jokes).