As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[P.J.]

Nick and Steve had always been at odds. Nick had blamed Steve for his wife and daughter's deaths in a fire (the wife turned up alive later). Steve had had an affair with her. He had stolen a necklace so they could run away before she was presumed dead. Then Steve quickly got involved with Carol, but ended up in jail for smuggling drugs for James. After Steve got out, Nick refused to stake Steve in a trucking business. Steve and Betsy ended up growing close and she offered him her trust fund. Nick thought Steve was using Betsy. They couldn't stay away from each other, Nick followed them to a secret picnic. Nick confronted Steve, they had a terrible fight, and Nick had a heart attack. Nick then extracted the promise from Betsy to stay away from Steve before he died. Which is why Betsy got involved with Craig.

*This seems like a lot of story for the two years that Nick was on screen. He had saved Melinda from a fire before she wound up dying in the lake. And between Carol and Betsy, Steve had an affair with Maggie. Which is weird, because I thought she was involved with Frank. 

[Paul Raven]

@P.J. Thanks for that.

[DeliaIrisFan]

Yes, thank you.  That is a lot of material this family burned through in a few years...and some of it very dark, even for the '80s era.  Wasn't one of the hallmarks of the "supercouple" formula that the disapproving relative finally sees the antihero's gruff charm and has a change of heart?  They kind of had to live long enough to do that.  And how old was Steve supposed to be, that he was Kim's brother-in-law?  From the footage of Nick and Kim that I've seen, which admittedly wasn't all that memorable, I didn't get the sense that there was an age difference.  It's interesting that Steve had already been to prison for drug smuggling, and that he was introduced in a story with a pre-Dobson character.

[P.J.]

I'm not sure how big an age difference there was supposed to be between Nick and Steve. IIRC, part of the reason Nick was killed off was negative viewer reaction to his romance with Kim.

[Paul Raven]

Yes, I don't think viewers were enthralled with Lady Kim getting involved with a macho man, especially when she hit the sack with him before marriage.

There didn't seem to be any long range plans for this couple. They met, married and Kim was widowed in the space of less than 3 years.

Considering this was Kim's 4th marriage I think they should have taken a little more time and care to protect the character.

[DRW50]

 

I think Kathryn Hays mentioned getting negative fan mail for the storyline. I can't remember if she said it was more of a negative response than she got to when she was meant to be bad and going after Bob. 

[Broderick]

The actor who played Nick Andropolous was born in 1929, and the actor who played his brother was born in 1953.  So there was a 24-year age gap between them.  

I don't remember the characters mentioning their ages during any of the episodes I saw, but I got the impression Nick was supposed to be "about 45" and Steve was probably supposed to be "about 25".  

[Mitch64]

"Open House," is a very midwestern thing which isn't used much anymore...(My parents would have a lot of them...) it just is a party that goes from a certain time and people drop in as they can....have a drink and then on to something else...they were held mostly during the holidays when there were a lot of parties taking place a one time. 

Bob and Kim were friends together for so long and seemed like an old married couple even when they weren't that it can be confusing, but seemed more "real"

I thought that Nick and Kim were fairly popular (more due to Kim) but I do remember that KH said she got a lot of hate mail when she was getting into the sack with Nick when he recently found out his wife was really alive. It seemed odd and lazy for the Dobsons to throw the "back from the dead" storyline at the same time Joyce was having that same story, and to have Kim have yet ANOTHER bitchy ex dogging her, when the Kim/Dan/Susan story was still fresh and kind of iconic. Andrea didn't last long as she didn't go over and really, it was like they had no plan for her other then.."Im ALIVE"  I never understood why they just didn't make Steve Nicks son from a youthful indiscretion. 

[Vee]

Tragically, I have hit the point in 1986 where a bunch of timejumps come in re: the archived material on YT. Going from late July/early August to late September, it seems Iva has now resigned herself to Craig and Sierra getting back together soon, Tonio and Sierra are on the outs, Barbara's name is mud with Lisa and Hal is romancing the obvious guilty Denise Darcy who is pretending to be threatened by Tad's killer. When exactly was Tad found dead, does anyone know? He was definitely well on his way and mysteriously missing in the last episode I saw before the jump in a bad storm, so I was just waiting for the corpse.

The much-discussed Beatrice has arrived and her accent is all over the place. The Wiki dates seem to be characteristically off because the always-adorable Andy Kavovit is already here as Paul. And Barbara is already fretting about having seen the same mysterious monk as Paul in Duncan's magic castle. We all know who that is, I believe, and I've never seen these episodes before. I wonder when 'the monk' first made his appearance to Barbara or anyone else. I'm also still not quite clear on the nature of Duncan's involvement with Stenbeck, etc. (Or the pre-Smith Emily's connection to him - I assume that is who she is getting strange phone calls from.) How long had James been gone at this point? Also, are they really testing Barbara and Duncan this heavy or is it just a time-waster? Shannon and Brian seem suddenly invisible atm after getting pushed so heavy in story with Duncan early on. It also seems clear Holden and Emily's dalliance is just an afterthought/spoiler at this point, if it ever was anything else. The emotional focus has always been on Holden and Lily.

The way Marland has dug into the just unsustainable super-close relationship between Betsy and Craig after she married Steve and what that means for her marriage is always interesting to me. Yes, Steve is a boor and obnoxious but it is bizarre that she remains so deeply tethered to Craig after what he did. Other shows would shrug it off, and earlier on ATWT seemed to.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Vee

[Contessa Donatella]

Recently in the Locher Room Colleen Zenk mentioned that in the 90s some PTB did not like Barbara Ryan. Going by what else she said, if it was a writer it would be someone pre-Hoagie. And I guess if it were an EP that it would have to be Felicia Mini Behr. Does anyone have any good guesses? 

And I see that you are in the throes of storyline & character analysis & I do not meant to de-rail anyyhing. Maybe this could be a side discussion? 

[Khan]

James and Emily had been lovers before they both returned to Oakdale.

Also, I think Holden and Emily always were part of the game plan, but once Douglas Marland spotted the chemistry between Martha Byrne and Jon Hensley, the outcome of Holden and Emily's relationship was altered.

[Vee]

I wonder when. Because Holden and Lily have been the driving interest through the whole year from what I can see - it seems they realized quickly the new Emily wasn't going to work or be that serious.

[Khan]

Is Colleen McDermott still playing Emily at this point?  Because, if she is, then, yeah, I suspect TPTB realized fairly quickly that she wasn't working out as they had hoped.  (I still remember reading an article about Douglas Marland, written sometime after he had started, where Robert Calhoun praised CM, who'd just been hired to play Emily, but also said he was going to get her enrolled in acting classes right away.  Talk about mixed signals, lol).

It's been years since I read Marland's original bible, so I might not remember it all correctly, but I think there always was supposed to be an attraction between Holden and Lily.  Holden was supposed to be a spoiler for Dusty/Lily, after all; and there also was supposed to be a D.H. Lawrence-type element to their relationship, too, with Lily whipping Holden (or Clem, as he was known at that point) with a riding crop or something at one point?  (Like I said, it's been awhile since I read his bible, lol).  But, it all had an element of forbiddenness to it, since Holden was supposed to be Lily's uncle (which, of course, no one knew in the beginning).

However, legend says that when Marland saw the first scene between Lily, Holden and Dusty, with Holden surprising Dusty and Lily at the barn, he realized almost immediately that Holden and Lily had mileage as a couple and changed course (although, the Holden/Emily hookup still went on as planned).

Edited December 3, 2023 by Khan

[Paul Raven]

Is that available anywhere? Would love to read it.

[Contessa Donatella]

When he jumps down out of the loft, well, let's just say I have watched that part of that scene about 30 times!! I loved it when Martha won the Emmy & thanked John for 15 years of sexual tension. It began with that moment simply jumping down from the barn loft. Loved Brian Bloom but suddenly it was "Dusty who?"