Really/ Maybe its the book fan part of me speaking but I've been reading articles that say the same thing to varying degrees and I admit I'm a bit doubtful. While I do believe Game of Thrones is a great show I'm not sure I'd classify it as one of the "greatest shows ever". I just think its a bit too gratuitous when it comes to the needless sex and violence. The casting is excellent and a lot of the dialogue is great but overall I just don't know if it will stand the test of the time....

The Red Wedding scene by itself though perhaps will rank up there as a moment in television history. That i can fully support.

I do think some of the gratuitous elements, particularly in season 1 will be seen as a slight mistake, but certainly for this genre (if there even are many examples of this genre) I think the show will be remembered as one of the best examples. Of course it depends on how it will play out--if people are unhappy with the final seasons that could play a part, but....

I'm not even sure where it would sit genre wise. There hasn't really been an epic fantasy series with such a huge cast and production before as well as a sense of gravitas--and certainly it compares favourably to historical soapy shows like The Tudors.

Sorry if you've already discussed this, TPoS, but I've seen some Sansa fans say that the show gives her short strift compared to the books, and makes her seem too immature, only focuses on the men around her, etc. Do you think that's true?

Personally I think the actress brings a lot of sympathy to the character that I didn't always feel in the books, especially in the early books.

Very weak episode both quality and plot wise....

So stupid of them having Jamie appear in Kings Landing before the "other" wedding....its little things like that which are destroy this show in terms of quality story telling. The last scene with Dany was utterly pointless.

In the books its alluded to but not confirmed that Theon's manhood was cut off....I guess the writers don't want that ambiguity to appear in their alternate reality/universe of Westeros. Still though they did a good job of showing Theon's complete mental breakdown into Reek. For that I give them major props. The scene with Asha and Balon Greyjoy (their father) was also made up and completely uncessary but what else is new?

I dunno, trying to look at it from a purely show POV I don't think having Jamie appear in Kings Landing at this point is a bad "quality" story decision. I assume they wanted him back there before the end of the season (and they probably thought shoe-horning in another wedding this season would be too much (I could imagine season 4 opening with that.)

Ha I loved the scene with Asha myself--I guess I was just kinda sick of seeing Theon tortured and nobody caring (and this is TV... Sometimes it's better to show things than have everything talked about and happen off camera). Remember that it was in the episode Martin penned himself that they showed the castration, so obviously he was down with the decision (as I said at the time, I did think his episode was one of the weaker ones--despite writing strong scripts in past seasons--especially the drawn out Theon scene which gave us little new information wise. He's apparently already penned episode two of the next season so I wonder if there's a major event there.)

Edited June 11, 201312 yr by EricMontreal22

I also disliked it because it was basically the same ending as the first season finale. Been there, done that.

This was my main issue too (though I agree about the racial issues, I'm gonna give them the benefit of doubt for now.) I thought the episode was fine, though after last week of course it felt anti climactic. But ending the season on that scene felt so redundant to me (the producers said they wanted to show just how big her army had grown, but again I think we knew that.) In the past the penultimate episode tends to be more drama filled than the actual finale, but I admit that with all the story threads, the pacing was off with this episode.

I read that Lena Headey's movie was #1 at the box office. Perhaps this will help with her money troubles.

Unlikely, unless she gets a bonus if it takes in a certain profit. She is just going to have to keep working and live modestly until she climbs out of debt or she can marry a very wealthy guoy.

I didn't know she had money troubles. To be honest, I had no idea who she was until I looked her up after TheArtistFormerlyKnownAs Carl's post I *love* her on Thrones, and I hope her charisma in, admittedly a terribly charismatic villain role will give her more great roles. Her personal life I guess I'll have to read more about--or preferably just ignore--at least from Ann's comment I get a vibe people think she deserves her issues?.

Edited June 12, 201312 yr by EricMontreal22

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr/04/entertainment/la-et-mg-lena-headey-game-of-thrones-divorce-money-problems-20130404

I didn't know she had money troubles. To be honest, I had no idea who she was until I looked her up after TheArtistFormerlyKnownAs Carl's post I *love* her on Thrones, and I hope her charisma in, admittedly a terribly charismatic villain role will give her more great roles. Her personal life I guess I'll have to read more about--or preferably just ignore--at least from Ann's comment I get a vibe people think she deserves her issues?.

I don't think she deserves her issues exactly, but she seems to have over spent a bit. Happens to the best of us. She's lucky she has the opportunity to dig herself out.

Finally caught up!! OMG! The Red Wedding!! <------ my reactions in order. LOL Robb's wife getting stabbed multiple times in the stomach was one of the most shocking scenes I've ever seen on TV. And then that was followed up by two throat slashes. I liked Robb and was rooting for him. First Ned, now Robb, I hope Jon's or Arya aren't next. Those poor Starks.

Not enough Dany this season. I was disappointed with that since she's one of my favs.

I too thought that this season was kinda slow. I'm guessing this was just the first half on book 3? And next season will be the second half?

Oh well, GoT is still one of my favorite shows. Can't wait for next season.

Ok that makes me feel better--thanks Carl for the link, and Julia for explaining. I was expecting some sort of horrible scandal--and while I think I'm good at separating actors from their roles, for some reason (maybe because she's never been a top name) this actually had me worried.

In more GOT news, a good friend of mine won a contest for a wine tasting tour here on Vancouver Island, and I took the day off work with her to take it with her. What was funny to me, especially after we had gone to one of 12 (!) vineyards in the bus they provided, was just how many people watch this show (there were 24 of us in the limo/bus and all but two were regular viewers) and how differently everyone felt about it. I admit it was really fun to discuss a show I love to watch with people in real life (not that I don't think of most of you as people in real life...) and to hear how much everyone agreed with me about how they hated elements like the endless Theon torture scene.

Finally caught up!! OMG! The Red Wedding!! <------ my reactions in order. LOL Robb's wife getting stabbed multiple times in the stomach was one of the most shocking scenes I've ever seen on TV. And then that was followed up by two throat slashes. I liked Robb and was rooting for him. First Ned, now Robb, I hope Jon's or Arya aren't next. Those poor Starks.

Not enough Dany this season. I was disappointed with that since she's one of my favs.

I too thought that this season was kinda slow. I'm guessing this was just the first half on book 3? And next season will be the second half?

Oh well, GoT is still one of my favorite shows. Can't wait for next season.

Robb, to me was much more appealing in the show than in the books. This may be because he's not one of the POV characters in the books--or simply that I find the actor very attractive and charismatic.

The Dany stuff is hard because its progression is so slow in the books--and the show wants to keep her center (as it should--I think the books should have more--and I admit here, without giving any spoilers I am barely into the fifth book.) Her move on events is a slow build, regardless of the pacing of books vs movies and it's hard not to make her scenes redundant. I thought her story had a number of great scene this season, though, and I was more happy with it than last year.

Except for a few plot details I see as minor (and others on here, fairly, see as major) I think we're actually fairly close to the end of book three--at least two thirds. I think that's one reason the actual finale seemed to force some cliffhangers and conclusions which weren't that interesting. From now on I suspect they'll combine the books more so (and they'll have to given what a SLOG it was to get through book four despite how much I love one of the new characters.)

All the people here who do the wine tasting, I feel like I'm on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous.

That must be nice to talk to other people about a show you enjoy and they respond and it's all fun. A few people I'm close to talk about shows we have in common but not a more broad amount of people. I remember trying to talk about TNG to some people in a comic book store years ago and they never had any idea what episodes I was referring to, even though they watched the damn show.

Is the show going to have that Lady Stoneheart story or are they not doing that?

Robb, to me was much more appealing in the show than in the books. This may be because he's not one of the POV characters in the books--or simply that I find the actor very attractive and charismatic.

The Dany stuff is hard because its progression is so slow in the books--and the show wants to keep her center (as it should--I think the books should have more--and I admit here, without giving any spoilers I am barely into the fifth book.) Her move on events is a slow build, regardless of the pacing of books vs movies and it's hard not to make her scenes redundant. I thought her story had a number of great scene this season, though, and I was more happy with it than last year.

Except for a few plot details I see as minor (and others on here, fairly, see as major) I think we're actually fairly close to the end of book three--at least two thirds. I think that's one reason the actual finale seemed to force some cliffhangers and conclusions which weren't that interesting. From now on I suspect they'll combine the books more so (and they'll have to given what a SLOG it was to get through book four despite how much I love one of the new characters.)

Here's an interesting article on the matter:

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/06/09/game-of-thrones-future/

All the people here who do the wine tasting, I feel like I'm on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous.

That must be nice to talk to other people about a show you enjoy and they respond and it's all fun. A few people I'm close to talk about shows we have in common but not a more broad amount of people. I remember trying to talk about TNG to some people in a comic book store years ago and they never had any idea what episodes I was referring to, even though they watched the damn show.

Is the show going to have that Lady Stoneheart story or are they not doing that?

I think it is a younger generational thing (though I remember my parents going to wine tastings, when I was a kid)--have others on here recently gone?

It is nice (and I think actually this is one reason Game of Thrones is bigger than maybe it should be--the event episodes, etc) and something I have not experiences in ages--even when I was really into serialized female based anime shows as a teen like Fushigi Yuugi or Rose of Versailles, my two experiences at going to conferences basically made me think I was the only person who enjoyed that. Still--websites like this have been a godsend. (Carl, a close friend of mine who name checks anything I say say with a comparison to an TNG episode has actually persuaded me to watch the series... I'm three episodes in.)

As to your spoiler--I have not read that far in the book, and I wonder if the show would do that--but someone on the wine tour DID explain all that aspect (I wanted to throw my wine at her ). I wonder if that character will play a part in the show. I wouldn't mind, given the great performance from the actor.

Why don't you watch GOT?

Here's an interesting article on the matter:

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/06/09/game-of-thrones-future/

Thanks! I actually read that right after I made the post and googled Martin and the series.

I know a few people on here would disagree, but I think--especially with Martin's guidance, the show would be wise to go in its own--slightly different--direction... As I've said on here, the plot changes *nearly all* make story sense to me and actually tighten the story. I appreciate how much people want fidelity to the novels--but I think that could be a mistake, and amalgamating some characters and situations makes a lot of sense. Everyone seems to say how the people who don't know the novels and merely watch the show don't even know half the character names. I don't think that's a fault (maybe I'm at fault, when I read the novels at this point I have to write down notes and charts about families--and ultimately it makes me find reading them a chore....)

I think David Benioff and D. Weiss have done a remarkable job with adapting the series and I trust them to continue. There are things in the show I HATE--but so much that I love and do feel is groundbreaking. I wish they would hire better scriptwriters (they write as many of their own scripts as Weiner does for Mad Men, and I think his scripts are always better when someone is written as a co-writer.)