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SON Community Back Online

Linda Gottlieb article 1992

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I know this woman elicits strong feelings among some posters here.

Here's an article from 92.I think Connie Passalacqua(Marlena DeLaCroix was the writer)

When the daytime soap world gathers at the Sheraton New York Hotel tonight for the 19th annual Daytime Emmy Awards, the main schmooze for once won't be Susan Lucci's 12-time failure to win the best actress statuette. The buzz instead will be about the ABC soap opera "One Life to Live, " whose new producer, Linda Gottlieb, has been making a controversial attempt to revolutionize the stagnant daytime soap opera form.

Gottlieb, who produced the hit film "Dirty Dancing, " had no prior daytime soap experience when she took the job last July. In the insular world of daytime television, which traditionally promotes and hires from within, her name may as well be Fletcher Christian.

' "One Life to Live' is the anti-soap, " says Robert Rorke, senior editor of Soap Opera Digest. "Like a soap opera antihero, you never know what it's going to do next. "

Soap audiences used to perfect-looking actors and actresses have tuned into such scenes as one in which a bald man (Paul Bartel) defended a psychotic woman for murder; the key clue to that murder may have been provided by an even balder man (Wallace Shawn). In a world where it's de rigueur for soap hunks to be monosyllabic, "One Life to Live " characters quote Shakespeare and recite the poetry of Burns, Donne, Rossetti and Shelley. In a genre that spins on endless romances, fantasy and froth, one recent "OLTL " storyline hinged on a scene straight out of "The Snake Pit " -- one character's visit to the sanitarium where her sister grew up.

"I had hoped by the end of my stint that I would be able to do for the world of daytime what Steven Bochco did for nighttime TV, " says Gottlieb, referring to the writer-producer whose "Hill Street Blues " revolutionized the hour police drama. "He took a form that was mired in its own preconceptions and brought it into the modern world. He showed things that were rough and uneven, and that characters aren't gorgeous all the time. And that's what makes his shows seem alive. Look, I've hired a guy with a scar on his face (Mark Brettschneider, who plays teen rebel Jason Webb). "

That's just one of her changes. Gottlieb, who admits she had never watched a daytime soap before agreeing to take the helm of "One Life to Live, " says, "It's rare to have a chance to come in to something that you don't know anything about. Either it means you are going to fall on your face or you're free to rethink it. "

Soaps had never kept up with new technology, says Gottlieb, who has introduced film-like post-production techniques, including computerized music editing. Gottlieb envisions making music as intrinsic to the success of "One Life to Live " as it was to "Dirty Dancing. " She has already hired personal friends Judy Collins (to sing a love theme) and off-Broadway composer Elizabeth Swados (to score a location sequence). And she has also used such cult actors as Bartel ( "Eating Raoul ") and Shawn ( "My Dinner With Andre ") in guest roles.

"Why not get the best people working for this medium? We're reaching a ton of people. It's as if soaps in the past have been self-conscious adolescents saying, 'We're gawky; we'd better not go after the good-looking guys,' " she says in an interview in her office at "OLTL's " West Side studio.

Gottlieb's most valuable, if not radical, hire has been head writer Michael Malone, a former University of Pennsylvania professor and well-reviewed author of such complex novels as "Time's Witness " and the recent "Foolscap. " Most head writers are veterans who hop from show to show, but Malone, like Gottlieb, had no soap experience.

Not everyone is sold on her approach. "There are tried-and-true rules that make a soap work, " says Freeman Gunter, a managing editor of Soap Opera Weekly. "Gottlieb wants to reinvent the wheel, but the wheel's already been here for 40 years. Some think it's working just fine. "

Indeed, in Gottlieb's rush to innovate, she has cast aside the three crucial soap opera elements that have kept audiences addicted since the dawn of TV:

* Continuity: In an admirable attempt to pick up the slow pace of soaps, "One Life to Live " has done several short-term, close-ended storylines -- on such subjects as wife-beating and prejudice -- reminiscent to the arcs used on the prime-time drama "Wiseguy. " But these stories simply ended, leaving viewers free to zap to other soaps. "In soaps, continuity is the most important element in building ratings and audiences, " says Douglas Marland, head writer of CBS' "As the World Turns. "

* Familiarity: "What makes a soap work for people is the familiarity they feel with characters -- the predictability, " Gunter says. "They're shocked when they tune in and see a character acting like they're on a medication which doesn't agree with them. " Under Gottlieb, the heroic Viki Buchanan (played by Erika Slezak), the show's central focus for 23 years, was suddenly pushed to the back burner and was transformed from a kindly, liberal figure into a meddling mother-in-law.

* Likability: Soap audiences tune in every day to see characters they love or love to hate, no matter how stereotypical they seem. In an attempt to build more complex, lifelike characters, Malone's creations are many shades of gray.

In her defense, Gottlieb says she's not producing the show for the soap audience, but more from her own tastes and instincts.

As with any insurgent, there has been resistance toward Gottlieb in the soap industry. "She's perceived as arrogant for saying she can reinvent something that everyone else has been doing for so long, " Gunter says.

Others, however, feel that soap operas, whose formats haven't changed much in 40 years, desperately need a kick. "Soaps have never responded to the new competition presented by cable and video, " says Soap Opera Digest's Rorke. "Soap audiences also now include substantial percentages of men and college students as well as the traditional audience of homemakers. If Gottlieb is being dynamic and shaking things up, then good for her. "

And there is evidence that Gottlieb's gambles may be paying off, even if the soap was not nominated this year for an Emmy as best daytime serial. "One Life to Live " (seen weekdays at 1 p.m. on ABC, Channels 7, 3, 10 and 42) ranked 10th (out of 11) in the ratings when Gottlieb arrived last year and is now fifth. Still, that's not as high as it reached through most of the '80s, when it placed third or fourth.

Gottlieb says she's aware of the negative industry talk about her attempts. She shrugs: "You've just got to keep pushing the envelope. The great thing about soaps is if you fail one day, you can pick yourself up and try something else the next. "

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I remember that the show seemed better during the interim period. I remember a Nora/Lindsey and Nora/Troy confrontation when she caught them together, I thought that was one of the only strong scenes Nora and Troy ever had.

How did Erin feel about the relationship with Will?

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That's interesting about Jacqueline Courtney's affair with Joe Stuart and his alleged attempts to make her the center of the show. The last clip of Karen confessing that she was a hooker on the witness stand on YouTube, which I had never seen before - it was not shown on A Daytime to Remember, or any other retrospective in which Karen's famous confession was featured that I've seen - includes the revelation that Talbot Huddleston was the one who ran over Pat's son. It seemed so tacked on and really a bit much - but, I guess Judith Light got her cathartic Emmy scene, so Jacqueline Courtney had to get one, too. I mean, Karen's breakdown on the witness stand was very melodramatic, but JL made it work and kept it within the realm of plausibility. But then, after she basically bared her soul, Herb was totally unmoved, shrugged, and said, "Well, why should we believe you?" And Karen once again started crying and screaming: "Because he KILLED Little Bobby [whatever his name was] and WOULDN'T STOP THE CAR! I was THERE!" And then Pat gets up and starts ranting and raving at Talbot, who was apparently in the courtroom the whole time. And that was what finally convinced Herb and the judge to dismiss the case. It was just too over-the-top.

Despite the bizarreness of Stuart's apparent favoritism toward Courtney - which by nearly all accounts she really didn't need, and probably did her more harm than good ultimately, when her old archnemesis Rauch resurfaced at OLTL and it seems like Slezak and probably others couldn't have cared less that she was kicked to the curb because they resented her - it is remarkable that the show had such an abundance of top actresses at the time. Slezak and Courtney, as well as Strasser, Judith Light, Brynn Thayer - not to mention Ellen Holly, who I know was less used but was still, presumably, a presence.

Actually that whole late 70s/early 80s era of OLTL is totally fascinating to me, from what I've seen on YouTube and elsewhere, though it's hard to put my finger on exactly why. Certainly OLTL was better quality-wise - and more groundbreaking - in the late 60s and early 70s. But I have to admire how all of the seemingly disparate parts of Joe Stuart's era somehow apparently came together into a coherent, compelling show. Maybe it was partially because GH was the most-watched soap era, so enough people were going to turn on the tv early and watch OLTL that they could get away with anything, and it seems like they tried many things but it never smacked of desperation. There was Marco and Karen basically inventing one soap opera cliche after the other - switching babies while Marco was presumed dead and impersonating his identical twin, after Karen had had to make a dramatic confession on the witness stand at the trial regarding his murder when it turned out he wasn't really dead. But somehow Karen's misadventures seemed to work, probably because this was the first time many of those plot devices were done in daytime, and also, of ocurse, because Judith Light is such an incredible actress. (Her scenes in that Asa wedding episode that re-aired on SoapNet, where Karen left the reception early and went home because she was apparently clinically depressed, was just haunting.) And Brynn Thayer's Jenny was just the ultimate, lovely young soap opera heroine, who prayed before selflessly giving back the baby that it turned out wasn't hers and god answered her prayer and sent her the incredible (and extremely sexy) Michael Zaslow. Who played the piano on the show, no less (so what if he was some sort of spy too? It seems like it was easy enough to tune out that convoluted part as long as he was playing the piano). Meanwhile, the show was still getting mileage out of Victor's murder several years later, and just from simple things like clauses in his will and the ownership of Llanfair, etc. They didn't even have turn him into a child-molesting, organ-stealing Nazi just yet. And I love that the baby switch story was doing a slow burn on the backburner during much of that time, adding another layer to so many stories. Those two episodes that they aired during A Daytime to Remember, when Karen and Marco switched the babies and then when Jenny gave her daughter back years later, seemed virtually seamless, despite the drastic changes that had happened to the characters and the show in the mean time. Of course, there were also shameless, random gimmicks (the introduction of the Buchanans to compete with Dallas, the Ivan Kipling brain chip story, etc.) being tacked on in the midst of all the classic soapy stuff, that somehow did not derail everything. Even though I guess in reality the era was in a train wreck, because OLTL's original social relevance and diversity was systematically watered down and the show ultimately faltered, paving the way for Rauch to ascend and essentially dismantle Agnes' vision. But it took such a long time, and it sees like there was so much good stuff along the way.

Edited by DeliaIrisFan

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I remember that the show seemed better during the interim period. I remember a Nora/Lindsey and Nora/Troy confrontation when she caught them together, I thought that was one of the only strong scenes Nora and Troy ever had.

Those scenes were actually after the official takeover. The first week. Great stuff. And then came Victor and Mitchfest and the cousin lovin'.

How did Erin feel about the relationship with Will?

Oh, I'm pretty sure she loved that. I hated it. It turned really misogynistic and nasty near the end, he was so controlling and horrible to her, and of course before that was the JFP era where he embezzled from their dead baby and still acted entitled. A couple regimes, including I think Malone and RC have tried to bring Jason Shane-Scott back on contract and I always breathe a sigh of a relief when he says no.

I don't think it's fair to lump the Karen, Pat, Jenny/David, early Buchanans, Delilah, Ralstons, baby switch etc period with the Corringtons or whoever stuff, which was Alex Crown, Laurel Chapin, San Carlos, Anthony Makkana, blah blah blah. Some of it overlaps but I think most of the former is night and day compared to the mob/San Carlos era. The latter is what brought on Rauch to save the day.

Edited by Vee

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Seth did have an exit in January '03, when he tracked down Jessica who was hiding from the family after learning Mitch was her father. It was actually a very well-written scene, the best they'd ever had together, which I think Griffith and Malone penned; this was when they were ghostwriting certain material before their official takeover, and in many cases that material was better than a lot of what came after February. Jessica said she couldn't trust him, as he'd colluded with Viki to keep the truth from her, and she said goodbye.

Too funny, I remember that scene very very clearly. It was under Griffith (pre Malone)

Edited by EricMontreal22

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Did Tomlin and Whitesell want to write more for Roxy/Max or was that killed even if they'd stayed around? I know James de Paiva said that was killed because ABC wanted him out.

Who was it back in the 80s who wrote that Echo DiSavoy story?

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I don't think it's fair to lump the Karen, Pat, Jenny/David, early Buchanans, Delilah, Ralstons, baby switch etc period with the Corringtons or whoever stuff, which was Alex Crown, Laurel Chapin, San Carlos, Anthony Makkana, blah blah blah. Some of it overlaps but I think most of the former is night and day compared to the mob/San Carlos era. The latter is what brought on Rauch to save the day.

Schemering (by no means always correct, but) disagrees with whoever did the WIki sand says Rauch brought the Corringtons with him--and they came on together. It wasn't working andhe quickly hired back Sam Hall and Peggy O'Shea (and soon it was just Peggy).

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I think part of it was ABC and Frons, who wanted him out (and allegedly killed stories Malone had planned for him), and part of it was Malone and Griffith being tone-deaf. They had apparently planned a Max/Gabrielle/Bo/Nora quad with Matthew's paternity coming out, and you can see hints of that at the time, but they were almost totally backburnered, there was no actual story for any of them until Al died. That quad would've been very good, but I missed Max and Roxy terribly and the hypnosis story they gave her with Nigel, followed by the horrific Nigel/Roxy "romance," was dreadful. People complain about vet airtime now, to which I say they have reams of story today, particularly compared to the nothing, just nothing Nora, Viki, etc. got under Malone II.

I am going to guess based on the story that Echo DiSavoy was Slesar, but I am probably wrong. And I am not going to guess at the writing team on the Chapin/Crown stuff but I do believe it was what spurred what we now know as the true "Rauch OLTL" - Tina, Mitch, etc. Not anything involving Karen, David, Jenny, Bo/Delilah/Asa or the baby switch. To the best of my knowledge all that was popular.

Edited by Vee

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That's interesting about Jacqueline Courtney's affair with Joe Stuart and his alleged attempts to make her the center of the show. The last clip of Karen confessing that she was a hooker on the witness stand on YouTube, which I had never seen before - it was not shown on A Daytime to Remember, or any other retrospective in which Karen's famous confession was featured that I've seen - includes the revelation that Talbot Huddleston was the one who ran over Pat's son. It seemed so tacked on and really a bit much - but,

Can you link me please? (I'm hopeless with finding youtube vids). I liek Courtney but certainly things like those witness stand break downs are the kinda of acting an actor like Light can make transcend melodrama and REAL--Courtney couldn't.

Actually that whole late 70s/early 80s era of OLTL is totally fascinating to me, from what I've seen on YouTube and elsewhere, though it's hard to put my finger on exactly why. Certainly OLTL was better quality-wise - and more groundbreaking - in the late 60s and early 70s. But I have to admire how all of the seemingly disparate parts of Joe Stuart's era somehow apparently came together into a coherent, compelling show. Maybe it was partially because GH was the most-watched soap era, so enough people were going to turn on the tv early and watch OLTL that they could get away with anything, and it seems like they tried many things but it never smacked of desperation. There was Marco and Karen basically inventing one soap opera cliche after the other - switching babies while Marco was presumed dead and impersonating his identical twin, after Karen had had to make a dramatic confession on the witness stand at the trial regarding his murder when it turned out he wasn't really dead. But somehow Karen's misadventures seemed to work, probably because this was the first time many of those plot devices were done in daytime, and also, of ocurse, because Judith Light is such an incredible actress. (Her scenes in that Asa wedding episode that re-aired on SoapNet, where Karen left the reception early and went home because she was apparently clinically depressed, was just haunting.) And Brynn Thayer's Jenny was just the ultimate, lovely young soap opera heroine, and she got to be with the incredible (and extremely sexy) Michael Zaslow, who played the piano on the show (so what if he was some sort of spy too? It seems like it was easy enough to tune out that convoluted part as long as he was playing the piano). Meanwhile, the show was still getting mileage out of Victor's murder several years later, and just from simple things like clauses in his will and the ownership of Llanfair, etc. They didn't even have turn him into a child-molesting, organ-stealing Nazi just yet. And I love that the baby switch story was doing a slow burn on the backburner during much of that time, adding another layer to so many stories. Those two episodes that they aired during A Daytime to Remember, when Karen and Marco switched the babies and then when Jenny gave her daughter back years later, seemed virtually seamless, despite the drastic changes that had happened to the characters and the show in the mean time. Of course, there were also shameless, random gimmicks (the introduction of the Buchanans to compete with Dallas, the Ivan Kipling brain chip story, etc.) being tacked on in the midst of all the classic soapy stuff, that somehow did not derail everything. Even though I guess in reality the era was in a train wreck, because OLTL's original social relevance and diversity was systematically watered down and the show ultimately faltered, paving the way for Rauch to ascend and essentially dismantle Agnes' vision. But it took such a long time, and it sees like there was so much good stuff along the way.

I don't think you're alone in your opinion--like I said Schemering called 79 on OLTL the greatest year for ANY soap EVER. I give much credit to Gordon Russell--while some ofthe early 80s stuff post his death under Hall was still great and had a similar tone (like the baby switch you mention) we started getting more gimmicky stuff. I don't think Russell's stuff was SOO far from Agnes' vision as many claim--he still wrote from character and carried over his famous great useof monologue from Dark Shadows with him--and there was still SOME social relevency (even in an OTT story like Karen's Belle Du Jour storyline which apparently was also a suggestion of Agnes'). But yeah this era is something I'd kill to see--even the '76 ep of OLTL has a lot of great stuff I think.

Is the Asa wedding ep online too? :blush:

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Max/Roxy!

When people cared enough about Rex to want Max to be his dad. :lol:

Emily McIver was so horrible she made Shannon McBain look like Maureen Stapleton.

Edited by DeeeDee

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I don't think Gordon Russell was far from Agnes at all. In point of fact I remember people crediting Russell with the hackwork in Dark Shadows' later years, but the fact is it was impossible for much of DS to be anything but hackwork given their schedule and how many episodes Russell and Hall, etc. had to turn out every single day. He went on to a long and celebrated classic run on OLTL and I've heard slightly more praise of him than Hall, though I think they were both good.

People like Harding Lemay have always trashed Jacquie Courtney and I'm sure there's things to dislike but in the limited material I've seen I've always seen a fine, self-assured actress playing a career woman. The only problem is after George Reinholt flamed out, she was superfluous and they tried to use her to supplant Viki. I've heard rumblings that she was difficult for RSW to work with during their pairing (they tried Pat with both Clint and Bo while Viki meandered) but I don't know if that's true.

Edited by Vee

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Really? Most DS fans I know, myself included think his stuff at DS was probably the very top (lots of the Quentin Collins dialogue and scenes, etc). I knwo he often worked with Hall but I think Hall was the lesser of the two--at DS and at OLTL (no surprise considering that recent interview where Hall basically said he didn't care for the shows much). I do agree that he carried on Agnes' vision in many ways very well (he was her choice of course)

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Really? Most DS fans I know, myself included think his stuff at DS was probably the very top (lots of the Quentin Collins dialogue and scenes, etc). I knwo he often worked with Hall but I think Hall was the lesser of the two--at DS and at OLTL (no surprise considering that recent interview where Hall basically said he didn't care for the shows much). I do agree that he carried on Agnes' vision in many ways very well (he was her choice of course)

The popular opinion may have changed since I was a part of that fandom; it's been some years. Or it might just have been mine, who knows. The best writer on that staff, bar none, was Violet Welles. But yes, Russell was a legend at OLTL.

Edited by Vee

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What really stands out for me in those clips from the late 70s is all those jagged edges, how real and aggressive and all the way many of the characters are. I actually believe that people like Karen, Marco, Dorian, are real, and they're balanced by the more normal, sane voices, like Viki, Larry, Jenny. It's all so authentic. People like Katrina, who may have been on some level a bit of a drip, I find them touching. Jenny, she never seems like the Mary Sue we're supposed to love. It doesn't feel like propping, or the birds singing around her.

These people are in such over the top situations but I never feel like I'm watching made up dramas.

So when Rauch showed up, did he make a beeline for the more longstanding characters, or did he get rid of newer faces first? He got rid of Will Vernon and Carla and Sadie fairly early on, didn't he? How long was it before he started phasing Dorian out?

I wonder if he would have made Samantha Vernon one of his big names if Dorian Lopinto hadn't left.

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I believe Dorian hung in for awhile with Rauch. I thought he made a lot of use of her with the Who Killed Mitch story, Dorian and Herb, etc. All that led to Dorian in jail, and Pamela Payton-Wright's first character as one of Dorian's cellmates. It was a big story for Dorian. When Robin walked he replaced her with Sharon Gabet's Melinda, a Dorian-clone, and also tried humiliating Dorian with the Jon Russell/Cassie story. He begged her to come back in '90 for Mendorra, though.

I thought he iced people like Cassie's teen squad (weren't they all living in Ivan Kipling's haunted house?) and Laurel Chapin Wolek first. Either he or someone else (maybe he inherited this) tried Dorian first with a Joey-style Danny Wolek, then with Asa, but then came Pamela and Jeb Stuart.

I liked the Samanthas a lot. I also really, really like Becky Lee. Even with Asa.

Edited by Vee

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