Linda Gottlieb article 1992

[Vee]

No, Emily was on contract. But she functioned as under-five by the time Malone and Griffith used her as an extra in that frat party bit, where Jen melted down in front of Cristian and Natalie and Marcie and Rex fought. That was her last appearance.

Seth did have an exit in January '03, when he tracked down Jessica who was hiding from the family after learning Mitch was her father. It was actually a very well-written scene, the best they'd ever had together, which I think Griffith and Malone penned; this was when they were ghostwriting certain material before their official takeover, and in many cases that material was better than a lot of what came after February. Jessica said she couldn't trust him, as he'd colluded with Viki to keep the truth from her, and she said goodbye. It seemed they were considering finally pairing her with Al, who Jess was hiding out with, but that faded away fast in the name of the unspeakable Antonio/Jessica. Some weeks after that episode (Seth's last appearance), in February, Viki called around town and spoke to Seth (offscreen) to see if he knew where Jess had gone, so apparently he was still in Llanview at the time.

Erin Torpey hated the romance with Seth and was openly contemptuous of it. That and what she felt was her marginalization in favor of Natalie was why she left the show. I liked both but yes, Jessica got a raw deal in 2002.

[DRW50]

I remember that the show seemed better during the interim period. I remember a Nora/Lindsey and Nora/Troy confrontation when she caught them together, I thought that was one of the only strong scenes Nora and Troy ever had.

How did Erin feel about the relationship with Will?

[DeliaIrisFan]

That's interesting about Jacqueline Courtney's affair with Joe Stuart and his alleged attempts to make her the center of the show. The last clip of Karen confessing that she was a hooker on the witness stand on YouTube, which I had never seen before - it was not shown on A Daytime to Remember, or any other retrospective in which Karen's famous confession was featured that I've seen - includes the revelation that Talbot Huddleston was the one who ran over Pat's son. It seemed so tacked on and really a bit much - but, I guess Judith Light got her cathartic Emmy scene, so Jacqueline Courtney had to get one, too. I mean, Karen's breakdown on the witness stand was very melodramatic, but JL made it work and kept it within the realm of plausibility. But then, after she basically bared her soul, Herb was totally unmoved, shrugged, and said, "Well, why should we believe you?" And Karen once again started crying and screaming: "Because he KILLED Little Bobby [whatever his name was] and WOULDN'T STOP THE CAR! I was THERE!" And then Pat gets up and starts ranting and raving at Talbot, who was apparently in the courtroom the whole time. And that was what finally convinced Herb and the judge to dismiss the case. It was just too over-the-top.

Despite the bizarreness of Stuart's apparent favoritism toward Courtney - which by nearly all accounts she really didn't need, and probably did her more harm than good ultimately, when her old archnemesis Rauch resurfaced at OLTL and it seems like Slezak and probably others couldn't have cared less that she was kicked to the curb because they resented her - it is remarkable that the show had such an abundance of top actresses at the time. Slezak and Courtney, as well as Strasser, Judith Light, Brynn Thayer - not to mention Ellen Holly, who I know was less used but was still, presumably, a presence.

Actually that whole late 70s/early 80s era of OLTL is totally fascinating to me, from what I've seen on YouTube and elsewhere, though it's hard to put my finger on exactly why. Certainly OLTL was better quality-wise - and more groundbreaking - in the late 60s and early 70s. But I have to admire how all of the seemingly disparate parts of Joe Stuart's era somehow apparently came together into a coherent, compelling show. Maybe it was partially because GH was the most-watched soap era, so enough people were going to turn on the tv early and watch OLTL that they could get away with anything, and it seems like they tried many things but it never smacked of desperation. There was Marco and Karen basically inventing one soap opera cliche after the other - switching babies while Marco was presumed dead and impersonating his identical twin, after Karen had had to make a dramatic confession on the witness stand at the trial regarding his murder when it turned out he wasn't really dead. But somehow Karen's misadventures seemed to work, probably because this was the first time many of those plot devices were done in daytime, and also, of ocurse, because Judith Light is such an incredible actress. (Her scenes in that Asa wedding episode that re-aired on SoapNet, where Karen left the reception early and went home because she was apparently clinically depressed, was just haunting.) And Brynn Thayer's Jenny was just the ultimate, lovely young soap opera heroine, who prayed before selflessly giving back the baby that it turned out wasn't hers and god answered her prayer and sent her the incredible (and extremely sexy) Michael Zaslow. Who played the piano on the show, no less (so what if he was some sort of spy too? It seems like it was easy enough to tune out that convoluted part as long as he was playing the piano). Meanwhile, the show was still getting mileage out of Victor's murder several years later, and just from simple things like clauses in his will and the ownership of Llanfair, etc. They didn't even have turn him into a child-molesting, organ-stealing Nazi just yet. And I love that the baby switch story was doing a slow burn on the backburner during much of that time, adding another layer to so many stories. Those two episodes that they aired during A Daytime to Remember, when Karen and Marco switched the babies and then when Jenny gave her daughter back years later, seemed virtually seamless, despite the drastic changes that had happened to the characters and the show in the mean time. Of course, there were also shameless, random gimmicks (the introduction of the Buchanans to compete with Dallas, the Ivan Kipling brain chip story, etc.) being tacked on in the midst of all the classic soapy stuff, that somehow did not derail everything. Even though I guess in reality the era was in a train wreck, because OLTL's original social relevance and diversity was systematically watered down and the show ultimately faltered, paving the way for Rauch to ascend and essentially dismantle Agnes' vision. But it took such a long time, and it sees like there was so much good stuff along the way.

[Vee]

Those scenes were actually after the official takeover. The first week. Great stuff. And then came Victor and Mitchfest and the cousin lovin'.

Oh, I'm pretty sure she loved that. I hated it. It turned really misogynistic and nasty near the end, he was so controlling and horrible to her, and of course before that was the JFP era where he embezzled from their dead baby and still acted entitled. A couple regimes, including I think Malone and RC have tried to bring Jason Shane-Scott back on contract and I always breathe a sigh of a relief when he says no.

I don't think it's fair to lump the Karen, Pat, Jenny/David, early Buchanans, Delilah, Ralstons, baby switch etc period with the Corringtons or whoever stuff, which was Alex Crown, Laurel Chapin, San Carlos, Anthony Makkana, blah blah blah. Some of it overlaps but I think most of the former is night and day compared to the mob/San Carlos era. The latter is what brought on Rauch to save the day.

[EricMontreal22]

Too funny, I remember that scene very very clearly. It was under Griffith (pre Malone)

[DRW50]

Did Tomlin and Whitesell want to write more for Roxy/Max or was that killed even if they'd stayed around? I know James de Paiva said that was killed because ABC wanted him out.

Who was it back in the 80s who wrote that Echo DiSavoy story?

[EricMontreal22]

Schemering (by no means always correct, but) disagrees with whoever did the WIki sand says Rauch brought the Corringtons with him--and they came on together. It wasn't working andhe quickly hired back Sam Hall and Peggy O'Shea (and soon it was just Peggy).

[Vee]

I think part of it was ABC and Frons, who wanted him out (and allegedly killed stories Malone had planned for him), and part of it was Malone and Griffith being tone-deaf. They had apparently planned a Max/Gabrielle/Bo/Nora quad with Matthew's paternity coming out, and you can see hints of that at the time, but they were almost totally backburnered, there was no actual story for any of them until Al died. That quad would've been very good, but I missed Max and Roxy terribly and the hypnosis story they gave her with Nigel, followed by the horrific Nigel/Roxy "romance," was dreadful. People complain about vet airtime now, to which I say they have reams of story today, particularly compared to the nothing, just nothing Nora, Viki, etc. got under Malone II.

I am going to guess based on the story that Echo DiSavoy was Slesar, but I am probably wrong. And I am not going to guess at the writing team on the Chapin/Crown stuff but I do believe it was what spurred what we now know as the true "Rauch OLTL" - Tina, Mitch, etc. Not anything involving Karen, David, Jenny, Bo/Delilah/Asa or the baby switch. To the best of my knowledge all that was popular.

[EricMontreal22]

Can you link me please? (I'm hopeless with finding youtube vids). I liek Courtney but certainly things like those witness stand break downs are the kinda of acting an actor like Light can make transcend melodrama and REAL--Courtney couldn't.

I don't think you're alone in your opinion--like I said Schemering called 79 on OLTL the greatest year for ANY soap EVER. I give much credit to Gordon Russell--while some ofthe early 80s stuff post his death under Hall was still great and had a similar tone (like the baby switch you mention) we started getting more gimmicky stuff. I don't think Russell's stuff was SOO far from Agnes' vision as many claim--he still wrote from character and carried over his famous great useof monologue from Dark Shadows with him--and there was still SOME social relevency (even in an OTT story like Karen's Belle Du Jour storyline which apparently was also a suggestion of Agnes'). But yeah this era is something I'd kill to see--even the '76 ep of OLTL has a lot of great stuff I think.

Is the Asa wedding ep online too?

[DeeeDee]

Max/Roxy!

When people cared enough about Rex to want Max to be his dad.

Emily McIver was so horrible she made Shannon McBain look like Maureen Stapleton.

[EricMontreal22]

It was def Sam Hall though I think ti was when Slesar was co writing.

[Vee]

I don't think Gordon Russell was far from Agnes at all. In point of fact I remember people crediting Russell with the hackwork in Dark Shadows' later years, but the fact is it was impossible for much of DS to be anything but hackwork given their schedule and how many episodes Russell and Hall, etc. had to turn out every single day. He went on to a long and celebrated classic run on OLTL and I've heard slightly more praise of him than Hall, though I think they were both good.

People like Harding Lemay have always trashed Jacquie Courtney and I'm sure there's things to dislike but in the limited material I've seen I've always seen a fine, self-assured actress playing a career woman. The only problem is after George Reinholt flamed out, she was superfluous and they tried to use her to supplant Viki. I've heard rumblings that she was difficult for RSW to work with during their pairing (they tried Pat with both Clint and Bo while Viki meandered) but I don't know if that's true.

[EricMontreal22]

Really? Most DS fans I know, myself included think his stuff at DS was probably the very top (lots of the Quentin Collins dialogue and scenes, etc). I knwo he often worked with Hall but I think Hall was the lesser of the two--at DS and at OLTL (no surprise considering that recent interview where Hall basically said he didn't care for the shows much). I do agree that he carried on Agnes' vision in many ways very well (he was her choice of course)

[Vee]

The popular opinion may have changed since I was a part of that fandom; it's been some years. Or it might just have been mine, who knows. The best writer on that staff, bar none, was Violet Welles. But yes, Russell was a legend at OLTL.

[DRW50]

What really stands out for me in those clips from the late 70s is all those jagged edges, how real and aggressive and all the way many of the characters are. I actually believe that people like Karen, Marco, Dorian, are real, and they're balanced by the more normal, sane voices, like Viki, Larry, Jenny. It's all so authentic. People like Katrina, who may have been on some level a bit of a drip, I find them touching. Jenny, she never seems like the Mary Sue we're supposed to love. It doesn't feel like propping, or the birds singing around her.

These people are in such over the top situations but I never feel like I'm watching made up dramas.

So when Rauch showed up, did he make a beeline for the more longstanding characters, or did he get rid of newer faces first? He got rid of Will Vernon and Carla and Sadie fairly early on, didn't he? How long was it before he started phasing Dorian out?

I wonder if he would have made Samantha Vernon one of his big names if Dorian Lopinto hadn't left.