OLTL: Discussion for the week December 28

[Vee]

I liked that dialogue.

[Khan]

Forget the thrusting! Kyle undid Oliver's belt buckle! You know it's a sex scene on ABC when someone undoes the other's belt buckle! Just ask every guy on GH!

[All My Shadows]

The after-sex cuddling was all I really needed. Of course, everything before was great and amazing, but just that moment of Kyle kissing Oliver's hand and placing it on his chest conveyed so much. So much.

[Khan]

Valid points, all, Cheap. Admittedly, as much as I, um, enjoyed seeing Kish finally consummate their feelings for each other, OTOH, I wasn't satisfied with how they "re-imagined" Kyle in order to sell this relationship; nor have I agreed with telling this story, frankly, between two characters whom the audience has not had the chance to know better first. (Same argument I made re: Marty's rape. If you want me, as a regular viewer, to care about the central character, or characters, in any big story, I need at least one year - though, two is better - to see them interact and form solid relationships with others on the canvas. Otherwise, he or she is a stranger to me, and I'm not as emotionally invested.)

OTOH, the sudden activist in me looks at the progression of Kish's romance as an important step in the evolution of gay characters on soaps. Nuke (and before them, AMC's Bianca and Maggie) basically "opened the door", so to speak, but that's all they honestly could do (and anyone who complains about Nuke's lovemaking, or lack thereof, has to remember that). My complete boredom with the two notwithstanding, I, for one, was not terribly disappointed in Nuke's "first time" b/c, I knew many out there in TV Land simply weren't prepared enough to "go there" yet. And though Otalia proved to be frustratingly anticlimactic for their fans, at the very least, they introduced the concept that even a character (Olivia) who has been a mainstay on a show for years can unexpectedly find love with the most unlikely person (although, b/c GL was in panic mode at that point, I don't think enough realized that, nor do I believe the show, or its audience, was fully prepared to tell that kind of story).

Kish, by comparison, are the first gay pairing not just to open the door, but to truly step through it. Subsequently, I think the next same-sex couple or couples to come along on soaps will be the ones to "own the room." All the progress that BAM, Nuke, Otalia, Kish and others have made will be brought to bear upon them, but they'll pull it off with grace, style and little-to-no interference from above, with characters who are "real" and who share chemistry that very few would deny; and they'll be the ones awarded with the kind of national spotlight and attention to rival Luke and Laura's, and dwarf Nuke's and Kish's in comparison.

That's my hope, anyway.

"Down the road," as JFP would say, that would be an awesome story to tell. A gay dad, raising his child alone (after Stacy exits, Fish learns he's the dad, and he and Kyle have to fight Gigi and either Rex or Schuyler for custody), finding love again (preferably, w/ an older man) is exactly the kind of tale I'd tune in every afternoon to watch. Again, just sayin'.

If you ask me, here was a clear example of an actor (Rodriguez) playing the moment too on-the-nose. Nick did what he did out of desperation; as an actor, however, Rodriguez should've made the choice not to make that desperation so palpable. Instead, there should've been a sense of strength and almost defiance in his body language and vocal register, like how Lisa Brown played Kelly's confronting her Nola over her machinations years ago on GL.

Now, that would be a good twist. Especially when Carlivati intimated in SOD that, although Nick is off-canvas for now, by no means is this the last we could see of him.

[Soapsuds]

Do you have any Falcon Films around bellcurve?? But I agree with ya! Luke is now an afterthought. Have they even gotten to first base yet....LOL??? Fish did what Nuke could or will never do. Nuke might have come first but it was badly excuted(storywise and being intimate). Nuke should have been what Kish is.

[SFK]

I agree with Khan that NR played Nick's unraveling a little *too* unraveled, but a. that's probably what we needed to put a period on the end of his sentence (for now), we needed to see that the dude isn't wrapped too tight nor is he relationship material so we aren't burdened with too much pesky sympathy for him and Kyck/Nile (??) "what if?" feelings, and b. it was probably the best work NR had done his entire run on the show. Not exactly Emmy pre-nom material, but it was nice to see a little *something* different from what to me had always been a very blah character played by a very blah green actor. I think it was important to have a Nick-like character as played, NR made the decision to play him more "human" rather than as your typical scheming [bleep]-blocker in a triangle. BUT, I say the next guy to come between Kish should be a straight up crafty bastard. Sort of a gay Kim or Stacy. Gaycy. What fun.

[Eric83]

I meant to say get it on, but now I would rather him come between Cris/Layla so they could have SOMETHING to do.

[Leia]

Someone would have to remember they exist. We'll more than likely to see Ford tango with Kim and Natalie.

Cheesy but nontheless it was an important footnote for Fish.

[bellcurve]

Falcon is so boring and white and 1998. It like a gay porn Y&R with better dialogue and storylines.

And let's just leave it at that. Shall we?

[Soapsuds]

Hey I didnt bring up Falcon...you did.

[Leia]

Kish with a baby so soon...... I hope Kish doesn't turn into Starr and Cole. This ties them to Gigi, Shane, Rex and Roxy once Stacy is out of the picture. Rex's family just keeps growing. If Schuyler is his brother he will be the young male heart of the show.

[Khan]

But, you see, I'd want there to be residual feelings between Nick and Kyle, lol! Not b/c I don't care for Kish, but b/c I think that would make for good drama. (After all, the more you can torture the hell out of your couples, the more Khan likes, lol.)

Without question, I don't see Kish as the endgame here. (Of course, I never root for any couples to stay together, so don't go by me, lol.) I think it's a little too E.M. Forster to have Fish's "first" same-sex encounter also be his one-and-only true love. If anything, now that he and Kyle have had sex, I'm looking forward to seeing how they fall out of love. :-D

[Vee]

If you think Kish aren't endgame on a show that has heavily promoted the couple and may have less than a year left on the air, I want some of the optimism you're smoking.

Yes, if we had more time, I'd like to see them tested and worked with other people sometime. But I don't think we have that time. Now if we get picked up for another year or two, sure, I'm all for it.

As for Kyle, I don't think any character was terribly rewritten. He was never this Marco Dane-esque rogue people were envisioning, just a broke college student who always seemed to have qualms about what he was doing. Would I like to see some of that side of Kyle return? Sure. But it's not my number one priority right now.

[Soapsuds]

I think that would drive a wedge between Kyle and Fish if it happened.

[Khan]

YES!!!

Oh, just imagine - once Stacy's lies are exposed, and Fish learns he, and not Rex or Schuyler, is her baby's biological father, Kyle would do whatever it took to unite father and child. But although he would be grateful to have his child, Fish would be appalled at the lengths Kyle went to in order to get him the baby. And right there waiting with a shoulder to cry on, who knows a thing or two about manipulating to have things go your way? Nick.

It'd be awesome.

:-D