OLTL: Discussion for the week December 28

[EricMontreal22]

I actually strongly dislike Nick because of how he reads his lines too--gay or not. Where did I ever say youhad to accept anygay storyline? I actually think one reason the often ridiculousness of Kish works is because of solid acting--it's not in the writing. Take a step back and look at what you're typing--YOU'RE the one making assumptions here.

Sorry I guess I misread you when you said: "

That's really offensive.

Like REALLY offensive.

It's also indicative that the support for racial/gender/sexual minorities only exists one way"

:S

[DeeeDee]

OLTL has clearly presented Kish as a progressive love story & while it's wonderful to see one group of minorities experience some success it's down right hilarious to see the dismissive & snide way certain members of that group & TPTB treat other minority groups.

You're the one that needs to take a step back.

You're the one making things personal when it doesn't have to be.

It IS offensive but it's also the truth.

If you choose to take that personally that's you but no amount of "I have A Black friend" or "Half my family is Black" will make up for it.

[Vee]

I don't think Destiny losing a shot at Matthew because Shenell Edmonds can't deliver is in any way comparable to Todd re-raping Marty. I think that's ludicrous.

Are there unfair double standards for minority actors on soaps? Absolutely. Do networks treat them and their storylines differently? Oh, yes. But I think OLTL is and has been the least objectionable for quite some time. And no one calling for Rachel to ditch chair-tossin' Greg and get another love interest, be he white, black or neon, has been fingered as racist. They wanted Rachel away from Greg because that [!@#$%^&*] was embarrassing and dragged the character down. Same thing with Cristian and Vanessa Montez earlier this year. Same thing with Destiny now. Would it be better if there was not the ugly metatext of white Dani and black Destiny, absolutely. But none of us can help that. And the fact is, KM and EA have a spark and SE and EA don't. She couldn't even cry today. Why wasn't this handled by OLTL months ago? Why wasn't she recast? Then we could have blamed the old daytime double standard of black vs. white. But all I see today with Shenell Edmonds is not color, but rather a bad actor who couldn't cut it and is getting cut. I also think people have definitely responded more favorably to Matthew and Dani in a fraction of the time, which tells you something about Edmonds since she has had way more time to make this work.

Making this a gay vs. black thing is tired, too. I mean, you're never going to see me advocate for Nicholas Rodriguez getting a frontburner story. I know he can't cut it.

[EricMontreal22]

Sorry I bhonestly misread your intentions--I thought you assumed I was white, and gay and had zero compassion,understanding or interest in anything connected to racial matters or racism. So I felt bringing up the point that I'm mixed race was relevant--and I still do. But I really didn't intend to make it personal--I wasn't trying to write off any problems with a simple "some of my best friends are" comment--I felt I do have some slight first hand knowledge of it and I did feel that it played a part in the argument. Where did feel it got personal was your dismisal of me having any understanding or sensitivity to the issue because of who you assumed I am and being some how lopped in with some group out there of narrow minded gays. Still I do kinda resent that you seem to feel I or any gay person is at fault because some gay people somewhere feel that racism is no longer an issue or a problem and only their cause related to sexuality had any importance. And re-reading what you wrote now that I know you didn't mean anything remotely personal about it or weren't amking any assumptions on my own race, I admit I don't really get what you meant at all.

I still think they should recast Destiny

[EricMontreal22]

Well said.

[TC]

[Vee]

Well, now that the gay-vs-black deathmatch has resumed I know another poster who will soon swoop in.

[TC]

Love your post but I don't think anyone was tryimg to make it gay vs. black.

[TC]

oh please. Gay gets more press than black or interracial these days. $$$$$$$$$$$

yes I am cynical

and cyclical

[Vee]

I'll let Eric handle that quote job.

It's not as though I am advocating for Easton and co. to keep their jobs or frontburner status while dumping Edmonds, either. I can't stand them. But I can walk and chew gum at the same time, if you take my meaning. I can do both. I think both Rachel and Layla have had more presence and intelligent story on a soap canvas this year than maybe any other soap out there, excepting certain "special cases" like Lily on Y&R (a whole other kettle of fish) and Randi on AMC, who everyone despises. And everyone on those shows in those stories orbits those two women, or you have Jesse playing Ryan and Zach's coachman and Angie as David's foil. But those characters like Randi and Lily don't work - OLTL's black women do. Unfortunately, Greg and Destiny don't. Which is why they should be recast.

And if you think AMC has not been toying with Frank and blindingly-white Madison North because of complaints about Vasi, I think you're dreaming. The issue is not why are these young leads of color not being given more advantages and chances to succeed or fail, it's why have they not been replaced with more competent actors of color by now. I said the same things about other young actors of all race or creed. Bad acting is bad acting is bad acting. I don't find Shenell E. anywhere near as offensive as Jessica Morris, but with a story like this where you have a potentially excellent interracial love triangle, it's too irresponsible to have someone so green playing the African-American teen.

But that, too, is part of the double standard in daytime. Like it or not we all know the actors of color only get so many chances compared to their white counterparts' countless opportunities to fail. So if you're gonna make it work, you gotta get it the first or second time. SE can't.

[DeeeDee]

Rewriting the scenes to make it as if Matthew never had romantic interest in Destiny at all, that he was totally oblivious to her feelings when he wasn't & that he's clearly oblivious to his attraction to The Miracle Child isn't offensive?

Then having Shaun give Destiny a condescending speech about how she should accept the scraps Matthew chooses to give her because it's more important for her to sacrifice her self respect for a friend who can't even be bothered to defend her against a shrieking harpy nevertheless return her romantic interest?

I don't think it's ludicrous at all & though Shenell may suck as an actress the way the horrible way the ugly underlying issues are being treated reinforce that.

I did too UNTIL it became clear that they were never going to be anything more than token window dressing & treated with disdain.

The same effort that has been made for Sky has NOT been made for Greg. Terrell is a bad actor but TPTB haven't even TRIED to give him a life outside of Matt's story.

His relationship with Rachel was played almost entirely off screen as soon as Shaun learned the truth about Greg/Rachel except when Matt/Dani needed babysitting or Tea needed propping.

If Rachel were to get another shot at romance with a minority character/actor or a fair shot at one with a Caucasian one it would be one thing but a character with her history & connections has been reduced to a Tea/Todd cheerleader.

But we can.

Matthew could be paired with anyone but the way the existing issues of race & body type are being treated smacks of condescension & snide derision.

Shenell's acting isn't the point & recasting won't help because if Shenell WERE that bad TPTB would have recast by now but they haven't & they won't.

They'll just ignore it like they way they did Tarty & act like they aren't making the offensively direct statements that they are.

The luxury of being "color blind" which is a fallacy in of itself is a privilege not afforded to everyone.

[EricMontreal22]

"Shenell's acting isn't the point & recasting won't help because if Shenell WERE that bad TPTB would have recast by now but they haven't & they won't."

But it is at least some of the point. So by your logic anyone who thinks she's a bad actor is wrong because if she truly were so bad TPTB would have recasted and they haven't? HUH? I said she's a crap actor and I want her replaced. I never ever said that there aren't other issuesplaying into this re race and other things OLTL should do differently--just simply that I think she's currently the worse major actor on the show and for me to care about her character at all they need to hire someone else.

[TC]

I don't think I've ever been described as "THAT JOB" before. Thank you

Hey Eric.

Bring it on - if that is your intention. kinda kinky thaqt you let Vee talk for you.

[DeeeDee]

I have never once said Shenell is Angela Bassett or couldn't be recast but the issues remain the same & it's annoying not to be able to discuss them because the end result will always be the same.

Now who's making assumptions?

The problem I have is that one minority group is making progress while other groups are being regressed at an alarming degree & the best the group making progress can do is sarcastic barbs & dismissive shoulder shrugs.

Especially when one of the main groups regressing horribly is the one the progressive group largely patterns itself after.

But it is what it is & it's always gonna be that way so there's no point in being surprised anymore.

[Vee]

Matthew showed what could be interpreted as romantic interest in Destiny - or maybe just teenaged awkwardness - in like five scenes over the past year. The occasional accidental touch, the almost-kiss at the wedding. That was about it as far as I can recall. As for Destiny and Matthew's friendship being preserved, I see OLTL doing that in a way to salvage her role on the canvas in some fashion, whether she finds love elsewhere (which I suspect she will with some recurring player or another) or remains a talk-to. And no, I don't think that's all she should get. But it also doesn't indicate her being callously discarded by the show.

But Destiny hasn't sacrificed her self-respect. The fact is Matthew just isn't that into her. He could have been if they'd recast.

Most likely because they realized it was time to backburner his ass after Chairfest '09. And I can't blame them, really.

She barely has scenes with Tea or Todd; the majority of her work today is with Sky, Nora, Bo and Matthew, as well as the Evanses. Before that, there was also a lot of Cole. As for Rachel's future,

Maybe not. But I can't see a compelling reason for Shenell Edmonds to be paired with Eddie Alderson given her current level of ability.

Oh, calm down. I didn't call you anything. "That quote job." As in quoting posts. As in, Dee's which make a number of assumption about how gay fans are viewing the story with Destiny - which raises the nasty spectre of a big ol' wacky gay vs. black POV debate.