Y&R: Episode Discussion for the week October 19

[MarkH]

I probably am, but I found the dialogue so pointed.

As for the execs...yes, Bloom was there and Kent was there. However, it seems clear that corporate decided to take a stronger tack when they got LML. Then, when that imploded, they seem to have dialed back initially with MAB. But it really does feel to me that something changed this year, and corporate interference feels like a fine hypothesis.

As for Hogan, I admit I'm probably talking out of my *ss. But I have it in my head that Sony brokered the deal for him to come to Y&R so that he wouldn't sue for Days' wrongful dismissal. I admit that is my personal conspiracy theory.

[DRW50]

A plus-sized woman who is over 50?

The people who run Y&R now are shuddering at the mere thought.

We're just lucky she left town alive.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Sheffer's, Hamner's and Rauch's track records at other shows and pulling the same crap seems like a better hypothesis to me. These people have a history of their shows being like this. Maria's inexperience and lack of direction can't help either. To me, that seems like a better hypothesis, as it's been proved by the same people on many other shows.

I have a better scenario. Sheffer was hired when Josh Griffith was still there, another person represented by James Sarnoff. For a while in 2008, every writer that was hired on Y&R was a Sarnoff client, Griffith included, so Sarnoff pushed Girffith into hiring Sheffer, and he's remained there. Maria became used to him and they got on well, and she saw that Sudden Impact had given the show a nice bump in the ratings and decided to keep him.

Sheffer's firing at DAYS was legal, it might not have been ethical, but they didn't violate any labour laws.

[MarkH]

You know more about this stuff than I do.

I fully agree that MAB is a weak leader, etc. But I really do think she's just one piece of the current situation.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Well, her arrogance and denial about the show's current condition can't help either.

I do agree that she might be only one of the pieces of the puzzle, but look at the people she chooses to help her guide the creative direction - Sheffer, Hamner, and Rauch. Really? Out of everyone, those three? And why so many cooks in the kitchen? That's never a good thing.

You're telling me she couldn't have gone to Bradley or Billy and request a writer that worked with her father-in-law to help her? I'm sure one of Bill's proteges would have agreed, money talks after all.

If there's one thing I hate about Latham and now MAB, they ripped the creative core of this show apart. They threw away a writing team that was close and had years of experience at the show. Now Y&R is filled with writers who do not "get" the show and didn't live and breathe it to the extent the pre-Latham team did. Some of the Script Writers might be from the pre-Latham era, but that isn't enough. They also do not function as well as unit as the pre-Latham Y&R writing team(s) did.

Bill, Kay Alden, and Jack Smith never hired writers from outside of the Bell universe. Trent Jones is the ONLY one over the past 20 years I can think of that had a reputation outside of the Bell universe before he landed at Y&R to work for Bill. Now Y&R has become like every other soap, and part of that is because they've hired writers who've written for all the other soaps. The show doesn't have its unique identity anymore. Hell, it doesn't have any identity.

Again, this type of vision has been a pattern with people like Sheffer, Hamner, and Rauch. I do not think Sony or CBS are pointing a gun at their heads and telling them to write these types of stories. They might have some blame, but again, they're not the ones writing and executing these stories.

[classicmoment]

So I don't know why but yet and still I think with some logic and wonder why and how Patty tactfully pulled off replicative reconstructive surgery that has her looking identical to her therapist and me being initially lead to believe TGVN orchestrated the whole thing is a bit confused by how he didn't know Patty's reconstructive surgical features was fully inspired by her therapist (big gaping hole in that story if they were going to feed this stuff, Victor having known about Patty's inspiration wouldn't have affected the story the way it is)

[Scryber96]

Exactly! Which is why I don't get why many of you were so upset that he would be leaving. He drags down every scene he's in. I'd much rather watch a bad actor that at least tries to act than someone who people claim can act--I haven't scene it in the three years or so I've been watching the show--just show up and cash their rather large check. Why do the folks who jump all over Amelia Heinle's sleepwalking give Braeden a pass?

William Devane playing a coma patient would be more engaging to watch than the crap Braeden performs as 'the face of Y&R'.

[classicmoment]

Braeden makes the character, it's obvious he is the stubborn, defiant, arrogant Victor Newman. On the surface The character itself is not necessarily unique in soaps but potrayed in a unique way, he's relatable to me I mean I've had a boss or two or have witnessed my self some rich old fart who you can't tell that they are worng (in their minds) ever. Matter of fact minus the rich part, that sounds like my father (still love dad though). Point is what he does (acting or not) comes off authentic to what the character is known to be, and what viewers like myself connect the character to. I say all that to say no I wouldn't have missed him neither (lol) but it would be shamefully funny to watch these writers write the newmans (which they can't help themselves) w/o Victor and Nikki

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I think the last time I was REALLY wowed by Braeden was in 2003 when Victor came face to face with his father Albert that had abandoned him as a kid. Braeden is a capable actor, I've seen it myself various times throughout the years, but I think the character has lost some luster in recent years due to bad writing and Braeden not caring anymore.

[NorrthCafe]

I sure wish I didn't have to agree with you. YnR's Traci is a lot like GL's Maureen. Traci should be the heart of the YnR. She should be the tentpole character who washes away some of the dirt and grime that comes with the rest of the show. With John gone, the Abbott's need someone to pull them back together as a family. Traci should be in the Abbott home, living there as the family matriarch - even as the youngest Abbott sib, she's been the mature one all along. I also wouldn't mind seeing her involved in business in some way.

I also wouldn't mind having her around to check out Adam and protect Ash from him. Wouldn't it be something for Traci to be the one to figure out what Adam has done? Phyllis reunited with Jack and (THEIR) daughter Summer - is still my hope. Imagine Phyllis believing that she's the matriarch of the family because she's back, and married to Jack again and Traci puts her in her place!

[DRW50]

I agree with you. I'd love to see her as the matriarch of the family, sort of a Bert Bauer. I think she could add a lot of warmth to the show.

Unfortunately, this group sees no role for a woman unless she is about a man or children. Traci's husband is not a major part of the story, Brad is gone, and her daughter is gone. So that means in the eyes of men like Rauch and Sheffer, she is expendable.

Seeing her uncover Adam's true nature would be a wonderful story. So much better than Victor mumbling and phoning in that type of story.

[DeeeDee]

Braeden is lazy.

He can be AWESOME but it's easy to see when he's bored.

The Sabrina story being a perfect example.

The last time he was really motivated was when he & Nikki were plotting against Jack.

Ew.

Jack/Diane!

Pretty much.

[MarkH]

Well, we have a history of better moments with Braeden. He was once much more consistently good.

And he remains a unique figure in daytime...not matinee idol, not young, not "likeable". Despite all this talk of Hogan given men balls, Victor never lost them. Men get a chuckle out of him in a JR-Ewing kind of way, and women are enraged by him. But that gets people tuning in. And then he surprises with rare moments of vulnerability...and that keeps him compelling.

But I totally agree that he is often bored and lazy. But, for example, I've seem hints of more these last weeks...most notably in the scene with Beth Maitland.

Regardless, Victor is iconoclastic...we have a history with him...he is the center of many of the show's stories. He's part of the recipe for success that has kept Y&R at the top for a very long time...whether we love him or hate him.

I agree.

Well, I obviously think he was a hoot during the epilepsy story. But I agree that poor writing (a real turn to villainy that started just before the epilepsy story, and has persisted...I have assumed at Eric's request, actually) and his lack of effort have dimished the character's appeal.

Good news, though. At least Traci is not dead.

These kinds of characters do not exist anymore. Is there really a single character on daytime who is active in such a role? The closest we get is Suzanne Rogers (I believe she's a key part of the DOOL ratings miracle), Jeanne Cooper (though she's no Bert Bauer), and to a lesser extent Erika Slezak.

[DeeeDee]

There are lakes in New York.

Don't forget Kat Hayes.

[DRW50]

The thing is that these characters do exist, as you've both pointed out. Y&R chooses not to utilize them. Rauch hates the matriacharal talk-to who can make viewers feel what she's feeling and help them learn to tolerate new characters -- he killed off this type of character on AW (Mary Matthews) and they really were nowhere to be found on his other shows, aside from Viki. Sheffer hates a lot of soap conventions, he's said as much in the press, and he avoided these characters as often as he could on ATWT and DAYS, unless you count people standing around reading letters.

I think we are supposed to see Katherine in this role, as witnessed by the years she propped Amber (who now apparently does not remember Katherine exists), but Jeanne Cooper is 81 years old and can only work so much, and Katherine is really not a matriarch. She's a loving grandmother and mother and friend but she's also very damaged and her best stories involve people remembering her flaws. Not her being passed off as the Queen of Genoa City.

Traci is the ideal for this type of role. I would hope that viewer response to her return might make them bring her back more often, but then, for all I know, perhaps we're the only ones who were even happy to see her. Maybe the "new" Y&R has trained more recent viewers to lose interest if they don't see Billy or the Scoobies onscreen.