55 minutes ago, chrisml said:

I didn't follow Beth Ehlers after GL, but did she do much after her comments about JR Martinez during her time on AMC? I remember being so shocked she would even say those things. Some of the GL blind items then made sense to me. 

GL just seemed like one missed opportunity after another. If TPTB could make the right decision, they would make the wrong one. 

She later worked in NJ government, I believe.

Some of those claims about GL's last years backstage were wild. More than anything onscreen.

GL did make many poor choices and was lucky to last as long as it did.

The last year did still at times feel "my" GL, at least, and in an era of soulless soaps, I'm glad for that small comfort. That and their lovely 70th anniversary episode.

5 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

Olivia??? Ed???? Lillian???If you say Buzz...I will go nutso!!!!

Don't worry, I reunited Buzz with Lucy's mother, Sylvie (played by Margaret Colin).

It was Andy Norris.

13 minutes ago, Khan said:

Don't worry, I reunited Buzz with Lucy's mother, Sylvie (played by Margaret Colin).

It was Andy Norris.

That's a good idea, especially given her crush on Daniel St. John. 

9 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

That's a good idea, especially given her crush on Daniel St. John. 

Right??  Plus, you have the fact that Andy was Holly's brother and Blake's uncle - and that Justin and Ross would have remembered Andy's prior bad acts only too well - and maybe you could see how a potential Andy/Samantha relationship might have impacted the Marler and Norris families.

8 hours ago, j swift said:

In hindsight, we may not agree with it, but if Pam Long hadn't been able to create Reva or Alexandra Spaulding, it would have been a huge loss.

 

6 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

When Long introduced Reva and Alex..the rest of the families were still going strong...(plus Alex was a core family member..if totally retro written out of the blue...)

 

5 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

1983 wasn't as bad as subsequent years, but serious cracks were really beginning to show, and decisions made by TPTB did not bode well for anything be repaired. In 1984, the situation got drastically worse (again, IMHO) By 1985, TGL had largely been decimated.

Whether we liked Gail Kobe/Pamela Long era or not, it can't be denied that Spring 1983-Summer 1984 saw the ratings go up from the post-Marland slump and set in motion characters and storylines that carried GL through its final 25 years. Yes, it was too much chasing 1980s trends which wasn't sustainable and caused long-term damage. The ratings from Fall 1984 onward reflected this. 

18 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Whether we liked Gail Kobe/Pamela Long era or not, it can't be denied that Spring 1983-Summer 1984 saw the ratings go up from the post-Marland slump and set in motion characters and storylines that carried GL through its final 25 years. Yes, it was too much chasing 1980s trends which wasn't sustainable and caused long-term damage. The ratings from Fall 1984 onward reflected this. 

Actually ratings fell as Kobe/Long made a sudden change from their own formula. Up to the fall there were all the families firmly in action, with the addition of the Lewis' and Reva...it really was a good example of how to bring in a. new family as everyone in town seemed freaked out by them and their..."yes-HAW" ness. The Bauers had Ed, Mike and Long was creating a triangle with Mike and Lil and Alex, the Reardons were expanded by Long...(She never got Nola after they married her off) the Spaulding's were the same with the addition of Alex and Lujack...there were cracks starting that summers as the Lewis and Reva were taking more and more of the airtime and Van immediately quit Spaulding and became a housefrau with no explanation, but they had a great formula..and then for some reason, they just threw it all away for shoulder pads, Lewis Oil, Reva 24/7 the 4 Ms all skipped college and basically broke up, Hillary killed off, Mike written off, Ed recast and the Reardon's dismantled. I would love to know the backstage story of that time and who hopefully paid the price when the ratings tanked.

2 hours ago, Khan said:

Don't worry, I reunited Buzz with Lucy's mother, Sylvie (played by Margaret Colin).

It was Andy Norris.

WHAT? Shut. the. Front. Door.

Personally, while weakening the Bauers was a mistake, I also think failing to create "the next" compelling anti-hero (ala Roger Thorpe) hurt the show. Phillip was a complicated guy, but he wasn't someone the viewers wanted to hiss at. Andy Norris, Gary Swanson, Neil Everest, Daniel St John....someone with staying power.

Just a quick question---did Alex and Fletch ever sleep together?

19 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

...there were cracks starting that summers as the Lewis and Reva were taking more and more of the airtime and Van immediately quit Spaulding and became a housefrau with no explanation,(

There was an explanation. Alan and Vanessa had had a very contentious relationship ever since Chamberlain and Spaulding had merged. (A little blackmail will do that...) He'd fired her in the beginning of '83, and she only got back in after Henry's heart attack because he planned to sabotage her and reinstall Trish after Ross' campaign ended. Vanessa's loyalty to the Lewises (she warns Josh about a bad deal that Alan wanted to used to tank LTA) worried him and he proposed to her the night she married Billy. Both Billy and Vanessa knew there was no way for her to work at Spaulding and not invite more scheming from Alan. 

And honestly, Spaulding practically gets mothballed after Alan's departure. It is not the hotbed of intrigue it was from '80-'83, when half the cast walked in and out of Alan's office on a daily basis.

1 hour ago, Mitch64 said:

Actually ratings fell as Kobe/Long made a sudden change from their own formula. 

1984/85 was the start of the ratings drop.

I dug up the annual ratings from 1982/83 to 1985/86 and noted key events.

1982/83: 7.4 (6th). HW change from Douglas Marland to Pat Falken Smith in October 1982. HW change from Pat Falken Smith to L. Virginia Browne in November 1982. EP change from Allen Potter to Gail Kobe in February 1983. HW change from L. Virginia Browne to Richard Culliton and Pamela Long in February 1983.

1983/84: 8.1 (5th). Pamela Long becomes sole HW in September 1983. Kim Zimmer joins the cast in November 1983. Beverlee McKinsey joins the cast in February 1984.

1984/85: 7.5 (4th)

1985/86: 6.8 (6th). EP change from Gail Kobe to Joe Willmore in January 1986. HW change from Pamela Long to Jeff Ryder in January 1986. Mary Ryan Munisteri becomes co-HW in February 1986. 

 

9 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Lacey and Alan-Michael being cousins would have prevented the pairing that seemed to be one of the reasons for Harley's creation.

I don't think it helped that Lacey seemed to not get a very positive response from viewers, although she was barely on long enough for that to matter. From what I've seen of her she seems a bit like a vaguely evil version of a robot from an '80s sitcom. 

It's always dicey when trying to revive a mostly defunct core family. ATWT managed with Jack (and to a much lesser degree) Brad Snyder, but GL had had so much loss and turnover that there was no one like Emma around to help bridge the gap. There was just Maureen, who wasn't written as matriarchal at the time. 

This is where bringing back Meta or Trudy would have made sense to me, maybe with an adopted daughter or ward. And bringing back a recast Hope, along with some appearances by Don Stewart as Mike.

I guess you are right. Again, I don't have an issue with new characters as everyone can't be related; however, I just feel that given what I've seen of that era on YouTube, they could've beefed the Bauers up better from the mid-80s to the end of the show. The Bauers had such a rich family history and so many surrogate family members that they could've whipped up someone to tie them to the main family. 

And it boggles my mind that Hope nor Elizabeth were never brought back in later regimes. Both should've came back to be voices of reasons to their sons, who adopted Alan's negative attributes at times. 

9 hours ago, TheyStartedOnSoaps said:

I stumbled on to this a few months ago. Former head writer of One Life To Live - Sam Hall - had once sued ABC for not getting royalties - when the show moved online. Sam Hall was to receive $1,000 a week for life, as long as OLTL remained on the air - link 

Former ‘One Life to Live’ Writer Sues ABC Over Royalties

I know we have talked about Head Writers receiving royalties for characters they create (though there has been disagreement if that is true or not) - so in terms of writers wanting to make their own mark - it is possible money is the reason. 

I could've sworn that a head writer (from the past) debunked the rumor of getting paid royalties for creating new characters. 

4 hours ago, Khan said:

Don't worry, I reunited Buzz with Lucy's mother, Sylvie (played by Margaret Colin).

It was Andy Norris.

That isn't a bad choice. 

As you pointed out, Sam did have a history of being attracted to bad boys. And as long as it is explained logically and causes a ricochet across the canvas, I am all for it. 

10 hours ago, TheyStartedOnSoaps said:

I know we have talked about Head Writers receiving royalties for characters they create (though there has been disagreement if that is true or not) - so in terms of writers wanting to make their own mark - it is possible money is the reason. 

I mean, it makes sense why head writers always want to introduce a slew of new characters when they take over. However, it could also just be that they are just writers interested in their own creations and not fans of the show they start writing for. They probably don't care about the history of a show they never watched. 

10 hours ago, DRW50 said:

GL did make many poor choices and was lucky to last as long as it did.

The last year did still at times feel "my" GL, at least, and in an era of soulless soaps, I'm glad for that small comfort. That and their lovely 70th anniversary episode.

I'm curious: what about TGL's last did did you appreciate?

(No snark intended, BTW. I found a few elements in the final days of certain shows, which made me briefly feel like they were "my soaps" again. It made me appreciate sticking around to the bitter end.)

11 hours ago, kalbir said:

Whether we liked Gail Kobe/Pamela Long era or not, it can't be denied that Spring 1983-Summer 1984 saw the ratings go up from the post-Marland slump and set in motion characters and storylines that carried GL through its final 25 years. Yes, it was too much chasing 1980s trends which wasn't sustainable and caused long-term damage. The ratings from Fall 1984 onward reflected this. 

When its principle competition, General Hospital, was a media sensation and getting monster ratings, TGL actually did pretty well.

RATINGS PRE- AND POST GAIL KOBE & HER SCRIBES

1979/80 Ratings: 8.3 (TGL)

1981/82: 8.3

1981/82: 8.0

1982/83: 7.4

1983/84: 8.1

1984/85: 7.5

1985/86: 6.8

1986/87: 6.3

In the early 1980s, after Douglas Marland and then Pat Falken Smith departed General Hospital, that show lost its luster and started drifting down in the ratings. Ironically, even with weakened competition, TGL's ratings started taking a hit, too.

From 1983 to 1986, with Gail Kobe as producer and Pamela Long, Richard Culliton and Jeff Ryder as writers, our show went from 8.1 to 6.8 to 6.3.

After Kobe mercifully left in 1987, Long returned, but the rating remained low: 6.2.

It's true that in 1983/84, TGL went from 7.4 (in 1982/83) to 8.1, but then dropped even lower, to 6.8 and later, 6.3.

When TGL was facing its stiffest competition from GH (1979-82), it was well-written and produced, and enjoyed healthy ratings. After the change in producers and writers, however, the show lost a shocking two points by the end of the Kobe/Long/Culliton/Ryder era in 1987.

It's accurate to say that the characters and concepts foisted on the show in the Kobe, etc., period remained front and center until TGL finally got cancelled, but was that a good thing? Kobe first gutted the soap of most of its pre-1983 history, and then subsequent PTB continued to focus on certain character types and themes that the overall audience seemed not to enjoy. The ratings' continued decline clearly indicated over the next few decades that something was not working.

In my honest opinion, the fact that this once-popular soap was finally laid to rest with ratings of 1.6 in 2009 attests to the fact that Kobe's concept of the show ultimately decimated it and started its serious blood-letting. 

It never really recovered from the 1980s' debacles.

(This is not to say that future writers and producers were innocent of inflicting additional damage. There are plenty of guilty players.)

Edited December 18, 2024Dec 18 by vetsoapfan

16 hours ago, Khan said:

Don't worry, I reunited Buzz with Lucy's mother, Sylvie (played by Margaret Colin).

Was she still alive(Sylvie)? I think Colin is the only actress who can make Deas palatable (or maybe its just that he was younger, not so full of himself and played a nicer character) but she never let him step over her lines, and as much as you can see she adores him to this day (God love ya Colin) which I think is very cool (as annoying as he is on screen I really like that they are kind of like Tom and Margo in real life, these strong headed people who somehow make it work) she doesnt seem the type to let him run over her like Fiona did.

18 hours ago, DRW50 said:

She later worked in NJ government, I believe.

She does, pretty high level I thought too. During one of those reunions (Cooper, I can't believe I would watch a minute of it...) she said that Frank D's kid was at a presentation for scholarships or something, and she was like "Are you Frank D's kid?" so it seems they don't keep in touch that much. Good for her for finding another life out of soaps and acting. She always seemed pretty smart and sometimes smart people are, difficult.