4 hours ago, kalbir said:

From what I remember in the soap press, the first cancellation rumors started in 1995.

It was then that CBS put it out in public that they wanted Bill Bell to create a new soap to replace GL, etc. & this showed up in an LA Times 1996 article that referred to this happening the prior year. To be clear, Bell did no such thing. P&G and CBS fought it out verbally & came up with "suggested" changes to production, etc. It was 1995 when they did the EP shuffle moving one EP to AW, another to GL & the last to ATWT. 

Edited December 1, 20241 yr by Contessa Donatella

10 hours ago, prefab1 said:

Not sure if it's lower than 1986, but most of what I've seen from Claire Labine's run in 2000-2001 was pretty darn bad. Not only did she inherit a show that was completely losing its identity with the mob and San Cristobel mess, but she actually made it worse with characters like Mae the cigarette girl and wretched social issues stories about Reva saving refugees and the teens learning why they shouldn't use Napster. 

That's probably pretty close. Springfield 1986 is teeming with unlikeable people (Sally, Jackson Freemont, Calla) and imposters (faux Phillip, Ed (VanVleet, God bless Ellen Parker for not just running for the hills) Alex in her Heidi-hair era, whoever the hell Simon is). And drips like Maeve and Jessie.

It's just ugh. And Johnny and Chelsea must be on the way soon. *double ugh*

9 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I was sad to hear in later years he just became known for playing a character despised by GH fans. (what was he called on here - Parking Lot Pete?)

He was awful. I've never seen anyone laughably overacting trying to be bad ass. I think he tried channeling Zas and missed, horribly.

11 hours ago, prefab1 said:

Not sure if it's lower than 1986, but most of what I've seen from Claire Labine's run in 2000-2001 was pretty darn bad. Not only did she inherit a show that was completely losing its identity with the mob and San Cristobel mess, but she actually made it worse with characters like Mae the cigarette girl and wretched social issues stories about Reva saving refugees and the teens learning why they shouldn't use Napster. 

I'm sure you probably already know this, but just in case, Labine at GL was one of those cases where every single idea the writer pitched, was turned down. Then to add insult to injury, after Rauch fired her & her kids, he couldn't find anyone at all to come do the HW job so he called Claire & asked her if they'd come back & finish out the year, or whatever. Anyway, amazingly, she agreed. 

Mae, the cigarette girl is amusing to me because everyone I know disliked the character, at a minimum, including me, but it's the one thing, the ONLY thing that Labine said she actually enjoyed writing while at GL. I find a bit of irony in that. 

I would've given anything to see what she'd have done writing what she pitched for a romantic attraction between Holly & Olivia. 

 

50 minutes ago, P.J. said:

That's probably pretty close. Springfield 1986 is teeming with unlikeable people (Sally, Jackson Freemont, Calla) and imposters (faux Phillip, Ed (VanVleet, God bless Ellen Parker for not just running for the hills) Alex in her Heidi-hair era, whoever the hell Simon is). And drips like Maeve and Jessie.

It's just ugh. And Johnny and Chelsea must be on the way soon. *double ugh*

Agreed that 1986 was an awful year for GL, for all the reasons you mentioned. It's also the year that the show went through a head writer change every couple of months, starting off with Pam Long and Jeff Ryder, then Ryder writing solo, then Mary Ryan Munisteri and Ellen Barrett, then Joseph D. Manetta, and finally Manetta and Sheri Anderson. It also feels like the year when the radical decisions they made back in 1983--getting rid of many long-term characters--really came back to bite them, as many of the hot young actors they'd built up as the show's next-generation stars left in 1984 and 1985. At least they got Chris Bernau and Robert Newman back by the end of 1986, but they probably should have brought back even more of the show's early 80s cast rather than bogging us down with duds like Calla. 

44 minutes ago, prefab1 said:

Agreed that 1986 was an awful year for GL, for all the reasons you mentioned. It's also the year that the show went through a head writer change every couple of months, starting off with Pam Long and Jeff Ryder, then Ryder writing solo, then Mary Ryan Munisteri and Ellen Barrett, then Joseph D. Manetta, and finally Manetta and Sheri Anderson. It also feels like the year when the radical decisions they made back in 1983--getting rid of many long-term characters--really came back to bite them, as many of the hot young actors they'd built up as the show's next-generation stars left in 1984 and 1985. At least they got Chris Bernau and Robert Newman back by the end of 1986, but they probably should have brought back even more of the show's early 80s cast rather than bogging us down with duds like Calla. 

Also 1986 had the EP change from Gail Kobe to Joe Willmore.

45 minutes ago, prefab1 said:

Agreed that 1986 was an awful year for GL, for all the reasons you mentioned. It's also the year that the show went through a head writer change every couple of months, starting off with Pam Long and Jeff Ryder, then Ryder writing solo, then Mary Ryan Munisteri and Ellen Barrett, then Joseph D. Manetta, and finally Manetta and Sheri Anderson. It also feels like the year when the radical decisions they made back in 1983--getting rid of many long-term characters--really came back to bite them, as many of the hot young actors they'd built up as the show's next-generation stars left in 1984 and 1985. At least they got Chris Bernau and Robert Newman back by the end of 1986, but they probably should have brought back even more of the show's early 80s cast rather than bogging us down with duds like Calla. 

Agreed, the HW merry-go-round is disastrous. But even casting seems to have gone to the dogs. There's not one keeper (arguably) between Mary Kay Adams and Carl T Evans. 

16 hours ago, prefab1 said:

As a whole, the episode exhibits a lot of the same problems the show was having in 1986, including a focus on boring newbie characters. Aside from Kim Zimmer, Robert Newman, Jordan Clarke, and Mary Stuart, there's no one here you'd recognize if you stopped watching a couple of years earlier (say, around the time of the clone story). And around this time, they were writing Reva like she was Joan Lunden--a TV host and polished suburban mom--so they weren't exactly playing to Zimmer's strengths. 

The show was such a mess before this that any writer would have a hard time trying to fix it. I did like that they tried to show Danny and Chele's relationship was bad, tried to break them up and I actually loved Aunt Meta vs. Claire.  I never understood Rauch's determination to turn Reva into that normal mom, beloved figure. You're right, it never played to Zimmer's strengths and it didn't help that they dressed her like the Insurance Agent she played on Seinfeld. 

Was 1986 really worse than 1988? For most of that year, I found the show's writing and plotting to be rather weak and uninteresting. If it weren't for some of the actors and especially Michelle Forbes, I would have given up. Was this during the writer's strike? Is that why it was such an illogical mess at times? I can never remember but I'm assuming so since AW also had the same type of mediocre writing/plotting.

1 hour ago, chrisml said:

Was 1986 really worse than 1988? For most of that year, I found the show's writing and plotting to be rather weak and uninteresting. If it weren't for some of the actors and especially Michelle Forbes, I would have given up. Was this during the writer's strike? Is that why it was such an illogical mess at times? I can never remember but I'm assuming so since AW also had the same type of mediocre writing/plotting.

1988 was the writer's strike, which contributed to why the Sonni/Solita story is such a convoluted quagmire.

I can't really evaluate though...I haven't ventured further than the first few weeks in January. Maeve leaves and I'm outta there. I do know it's the year Phillip goes full on [!@#$%^&*] and impregnates Rick's wife. Which I will never understand. 

Edited December 2, 20241 yr by P.J.

10 hours ago, prefab1 said:

1986 was an awful year

10 hours ago, prefab1 said:

the radical decisions they made back in 1983--getting rid of many long-term characters--really came back to bite them, as many of the hot young actors they'd built up as the show's next-generation stars left in 1984 and 1985. 

1984-1986 main cast departures off the top of my head: Chris Bernau, Robert Newman, Grant Aleksander, Vincent Irizarry, Judi Evans. If any are missing, please add.

3 hours ago, P.J. said:

1988 was the writer's strike

1988 writers strike was March 7 to August 7, so almost half of 1988 was strike material.

10 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

I'm sure you probably already know this, but just in case, Labine at GL was one of those cases where every single idea the writer pitched, was turned down. Then to add insult to injury, after Rauch fired her & her kids, he couldn't find anyone at all to come do the HW job so he called Claire & asked her if they'd come back & finish out the year, or whatever. Anyway, amazingly, she agreed. 

Mae, the cigarette girl is amusing to me because everyone I know disliked the character, at a minimum, including me, but it's the one thing, the ONLY thing that Labine said she actually enjoyed writing while at GL. I find a bit of irony in that. 

I would've given anything to see what she'd have done writing what she pitched for a romantic attraction between Holly & Olivia. 

I know this has been said, but I still feel like a number of story choices made on the show in her run scream Labine, more than any other writer (or Rauch for that matter).

Many thought 1991 was going to be a rough year with the departures of Kim Zimmer in July 1990 and Pamela Long in December 1990, and the cast purge in the early months of 1991 (Grant Aleksander, Beth Chamberlain, Kassie DePaiva, Robert Newman, Michael O'Leary). I thought 1991 was very good even though the ratings in the first half of the year didn't reflect the quality of the show.

1 hour ago, kalbir said:

1984-1986 main cast departures off the top of my head: Chris Bernau, Robert Newman, Grant Aleksander, Vincent Irizarry, Judi Evans. If any are missing, please add.

1988 writers strike was March 7 to August 7, so almost half of 1988 was strike material.

Charita Bauer, Lisa Brown, Michael Tylo, Greg Beecroft, Harley Kozak, Michael Woods, Marsha Clark, Carolyn Clark, Denise Pence, Peter Simon, Rebecca Hollen. 

Tom Nielson too, even if he was lucky to last that long.

1 hour ago, kalbir said:

Many thought 1991 was going to be a rough year with the departures of Kim Zimmer in July 1990 and Pamela Long in December 1990, and the cast purge in the early months of 1991 (Grant Aleksander, Beth Chamberlain, Kassie DePaiva, Robert Newman, Michael O'Leary). I thought 1991 was very good even though the ratings in the first half of the year didn't reflect the quality of the show.

It's odd--I would consider Zimmer and Aleksander major losses and true fan favorites, yet I on rewatch, I barely notice their absence. I consider mid'89-mid'93 almost perfectly balanced in terms of character and story. If you tallied figures, maybe '86 and '91 are similar in terms of new characters, but '91 doesn't feel forced at all.