1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

Maeve isn't one of those characters I can see staying around too long even if Leslie hadn't wanted to leave. The Fletcher pairing feels more like an attempt at keeping her around as at this point Fletcher had more ties to the canvas than she did. 

I can see Fletcher/Alex as an attempt at keeping Fletcher around.

Well, this is a show that kept Tina Sloan and Frank Dicopolous perpetually employed. They threw Mo, Alex, Vanessa and Holly at him, and I'd argue that other than Zas, none of the other male characters got that level of connection or talent thrown at them at the time. 

9 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Well, this is a show that kept Tina Sloan and Frank Dicopolous perpetually employed. They threw Mo, Alex, Vanessa and Holly at him, and I'd argue that other than Zas, none of the other male characters got that level of connection or talent thrown at them at the time. 

I was thinking more of when Pam Long was there, as Vanessa and Holly were later writers (I'm not sure about Maureen). By the time we got to the '90s I never felt like the show was trying to make him happen, I think he was mostly used as a stopgap for other pairings (Billy/Vanessa, Roger/Holly), but maybe if I disliked him, I would feel differently.

Frank I think there was a case for keeping as he always had family around and was a popular figure in the late '80s to mid '90s. I guess he was also very cheap. Tina Sloan has less of a case but I guess she was too (there was a rumor, no idea if it was true, that she was not paid much because she didn't need the money and just wanted to work).

 

1 hour ago, kalbir said:

 

That illustrates the inherent problem with the Younger categories, in that kids/teens are competing against grown adults.

Bryan Buffington was nominated for Younger Actor in 1990, 1991, 1993-1995, so he was 10, 11, 13-15. The winners in those years were Andrew Kavovit (19 in 1990), Rick Hearst (26 in 1991), Monti Sharp (26 in 1993), Roger Howarth (26 in 1994), Jonathan Jackson (13 in 1995).

Maureen Garrett wasn't nominated in 1993 when Ellen Parker won. 1991 Maureen lost to Jess Walton and the rest of the race was Darlene Conley, Jill Larson, Kathleen Widdoes. 1992 Maureen lost to Maeve Kinkead and the rest of the race was Darlene Conley, Linda Dano, Lynn Herring. 1993 Ellen won over Kimberlin Brown, Jane Elliot, Jill Larson, Tonja Walker. 1994 Maureen lost to Susan Haskell and the rest of the race was Signy Coleman, Hilary Edson, Sharon Wyatt.

In that 1984-1992 period, Erika Slezak and Kim Zimmer were dominating the Lead Actress races. I broke down Elizabeth Hubbard's losses in the As the World Turns thread.

Tru dat: re Younger Actor. I was looking up the nominees, and a) didn't remember BB had been nom'd, and b) felt bad he'd faced the equivalent of a murders' row in terms of competition that in many ways became icons in the industry. 

Re: Garrett, while I did think she was nom'd in 93, in general it must've harder even to get the nom when politics locked so many out of the Lead nominations and you've got a stable of excellent castmates on your show too. 

16 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I was thinking more of when Pam Long was there, as Vanessa and Holly were later writers (I'm not sure about Maureen). By the time we got to the '90s I never felt like the show was trying to make him happen, I think he was mostly used as a stopgap for other pairings (Billy/Vanessa, Roger/Holly), but maybe if I disliked him, I would feel differently.

I guess I can see that. And to be fair, there is a lot of upheaval in the 80s---you've got Simon, Newman, Clarke and even Bernau weaving in and out. (not to mention the younger leads Aleksander, O'Leary and VI) Maybe in that light, trying to build Fletch up was smarter than I give it credit for. 

Other than gnashing my teeth over the hook up with Van, Fletch doesn't annoy me as much as it seems. I've just fallen back in love with Billy/Vanessa---HARD. lol  

3 hours ago, chrisml said:

(hence, her one win was something substantial).

I don't agree that Susan Lucci's one win was for something (more) substantial.  As a matter of fact, I would place the episode(s) that got her that Emmy more-or-less on the same level as everything else she'd ever been nominated for (and I say that as one who worships the rain that waters the grass that grows on the ground she walks on).  It's just that (IMO) she won in a year when the other Lead Actress nominees' work was either weak and underwhelming (Hubbard, Scott) or country-ass dumb (Zimmer and the damn clone, lol), with Jeanne Cooper being the only nominee that year that you could argue was "robbed."

I think the reason why GL always under-performed at the Emmys comes down to one thing: GL's cast and directors might have been among the best in daytime, if not THE best, but the show didn't always have an EP and/or HW who wrote and produced the kind of flashy, eye-catching, submission reel-ready material that Academy voters obviously love.  Even Lisa Brown's work as Nola, as stunning as it was to watch, couldn't have touched, say, Judith Light's work as OLTL's Karen Wolek, or Jane Elliot's as GH's Tracy Quartermaine; and for all the reasons that Beverlee McKinsey gave over the years for not even submitting herself for a nomination as Alexandra, I think the REAL reason is that even she was astute enough to know that GL didn't write/produce for her the way Paul Rauch and Harding Lemay had at AW.

Moreover, I think it says something that GL couldn't make headway in terms of getting their actors nominated, let alone helping them win, until Pam Long became HW.  Whether or not getting actors nominated for awards was her true intention, It seems like Long was the first HW who knew how to give GL's actors the kind of just-give-'em-their-damn-Emmy-already material that usually helped the actors on the ABC shows win.  And I think THAT comes down to two things: 1) Long's own acting background; and 2) her tendency to write big, emotional stuff that challenges the actors to swing for the proverbial fences.  Next to Sheri Anderson/Leah Laiman/Thom Racina, no one writes soap opera with more "heart" than Pamela K. Long.

2 hours ago, P.J. said:

In my mind, every year between '84 to '92 should've been a slugfest between Bev and Elizabeth Hubbard. 

Except, I would say that Hubbard routinely had better, less degradating (sp?) or humiliating material (which is why I consider her perennial snubs as Lucinda the real travesty of the Daytime Emmys in the '80's).  Yes, I always enjoyed watching Bev do her thang, but I feel like the only time she had the kind of material that said, "Yes, nominate her for the Emmy TODAY!," was 1991-92; and even then, McKinsey deserved to be nominated, not because she did so brilliantly with such great material - because, in retrospect, what they wrote for her absolutely amounted to character assassination - but because she performed a minor miracle in retaining Alex's humanity at a period when GL was clearly turning her into the Evil Bitch Monster from Hell.

And by the way, I'm not even including JFP at all in this discussion because GL's wins during her tenure, while not entirely undeserved, were truly the result of bloc voting more than anything else.  JFP had cracked the Emmy code at SaBa and so she gamed the hell out of 'em.  (And I think the Academy low-key resented her, too, even as they (begrudgingly) awarded her actors.  Don't believe me?  Ask yourself why, with all the attention that the press and the blue ribbon panels lavished on the show in the '90's, GL never won the Best Series Emmy during the JFP era.)

Edited June 23, 20241 yr by Khan

1 hour ago, Khan said:

 

I think the reason why GL always under-performed at the Emmys comes down to one thing: GL's cast and directors might have been among the best in daytime, if not THE best, but the show didn't always have an EP and/or HW who wrote and produced the kind of flashy, eye-catching, submission reel-ready material that Academy voters obviously love.  Even Lisa Brown's work as Nola, as stunning as it was to watch, couldn't have touched, say, Judith Light's work as OLTL's Karen Wolek, or Jane Elliot's as GH's Tracy Quartermaine; and for all the reasons that Beverlee McKinsey gave over the years for not even submitting herself for a nomination as Alexandra, I think the REAL reason is that even she was astute enough to know that GL didn't write/produce for her the way Paul Rauch and Harding Lemay had at AW.

Moreover, I think it says something that GL couldn't make headway in terms of getting their actors nominated, let alone helping them win, until Pam Long became HW.  Whether or not getting actors nominated for awards was her true intention, It seems like Long was the first HW who knew how to give GL's actors the kind of just-give-'em-their-damn-Emmy-already material that usually helped the actors on the ABC shows win.  And I think THAT comes down to two things: 1) Long's own acting background; and 2) her tendency to write big, emotional stuff that challenges the actors to swing for the proverbial fences.  Next to Sheri Anderson/Leah Laiman/Thom Racina, no one writes soap opera with more "heart" than Pamela K. Long.

Except, I would say that Hubbard routinely had better, less degradating (sp?) or humiliating material (which is why I consider her perennial snubs as Lucinda the real travesty of the Daytime Emmys in the '80's).  Yes, I always enjoyed watching Bev do her thang, but I feel like the only time she had the kind of material that said, "Yes, nominate her for the Emmy TODAY!," was 1991-92; and even then, McKinsey deserved to be nominated, not because she did so brilliantly with such great material - because, in retrospect, what they wrote for her absolutely amounted to character assassination - but because she performed a minor miracle in retaining Alex's humanity at a period when GL was clearly turning her into the Evil Bitch Monster from Hell.

And by the way, I'm not even including JFP at all in this discussion because GL's wins during her tenure, while not entirely undeserved, were truly the result of bloc voting more than anything else.  JFP had cracked the Emmy code at SaBa and so she gamed the hell out of 'em.  (And I think the Academy low-key resented her, too, even as they (begrudgingly) awarded her actors.  Don't believe me?  Ask yourself why, with all the attention that the press and the blue ribbon panels lavished on the show in the '90's, GL never won the Best Series Emmy during the JFP era.)

While I can't really compare anything about ABC, as I didn't watch, I understand what you mean about the writing. The three really big "moments" I remember from the early 80s' are Nola's comeuppance (which I would defend to the death at least deserved a nomination, which Brown was unlikely to get given her relative newness to the genre and the system at the time), Ashley's breakdown post abortion, and Reva's Slut of Springfield moment. Whether that was just more a CBS or P&G thing, I don't know.

Re: Lucinda--yeah, she had her evil moments, but she was never going to grab some mistress by the hair. As justified as going after Roger and even Mindy are---the way she gleefully told Billy about Mindy's affair was a "jump the shark" moment.

Edited June 23, 20241 yr by P.J.

3 hours ago, P.J. said:

The three really big "moments" I remember from the early 80s' are Nola's comeuppance [...], Ashley's breakdown post abortion, and Reva's Slut of Springfield moment. Whether that was just more a CBS or P&G thing, I don't know.

If I'm not mistaken, Y&R's actors also had difficulty getting any "Emmy love" before Terry Lester finally broke through w/ his first nod either in '84 or '85.  But I tend to think the Academy was biased against the West Coast-based soaps in general, and biased against Y&R in particular, due to its' heavily stylized nature.

Conversely, actors on DAYS and on AW started out as front-runners and odds-on favorites in Emmy races, but after Douglass Watson's back-to-back victories in the early '80's, it was difficult for them to receive nominations, let alone wins.  Which makes the rare NBC win afterwards (like Leann Hunley's in '85 or '86 for DAYS, or all of AW's wins during the JFP era) all the more remarkable, because, aside from SaBa, it's as if the Academy had written off the NBC shows as lightweight.

@Khan CBS soaps in general got very little love in the first 15 years of the Daytime Emmys. 

Search for Tomorrow had CBS first three acting wins.

1976: Larry Haines (Lead Actor)

1977: Val Dufour (Lead Actor)

1981: Larry Haines (Supporting Actor)

1984-1988 three more CBS soaps got wins

1984: Larry Bryggman (Lead Actor and As the World Turns first win in this category), Justin Deas (Supporting Actor and As the World Turns first win in this category), Judi Evans (Supporting Actress and GL first overall nomination and win).

1985: Kim Zimmer (Lead Actress and GL first nomination and win in this category), Larry Gates (Supporting Actor and GL first nomination and win in this category), Beth Maitland (Supporting Actress and Y&R first nomination and win in this category), Brian Bloom (Younger Actor and first winner in this category), Tracey Bregman (Younger Actress and first winner in this category)

1986: John Wesley Shipp (Supporting Actor)

1987: Larry Bryggman (Lead Actor), Kim Zimmer (Lead Actress), Gregg Marx (Supporting Actor), Martha Byrne (Younger Actress and As the World Turns first win in this category)

1988: Julianne Moore (Younger Actress)

Search for Tomorrow had CBS first acting nomination.

1974: Mary Stuart (Lead Actress)

1981 three more CBS soaps start getting nominations. This list below is limited to first nominations in each category for each show.

1981: Larry Bryggman (Lead Actor), Henderson Forsythe (Lead Actor), Justin Deas (Supporting Actor) - As the World Turns first nominees

1984: Terry Lester (Lead Actor and Y&R first overall nominee)

1986: Elizabeth Hubbard (Lead Actress and As the World Turns first nominee in this category), Kathleen Widdoes (Supporting Actress and As the World Turns first nominee in this category), Vincent Irizarry (Younger Actor and GL first nominee in this category), Martha Byrne (Younger Actress and As the World Turns first nominee in this category)

1987: Krista Tesreau (Younger Actress and GL first nomination in this category)

1989: Jeanne Cooper (Lead Actress and Y&R first nomination in this category), Quinn Redeker (Supporting Actor and Y&R first nomination in this category)

Edited June 24, 20241 yr by kalbir

This is random, but I am popping in because while researching past GL actors I was surprised to find that Lezlie Dalton (Elizabeth Spaulding) emerged from an apparent forty-year retirement to appear in a short film last year. I can't find the full film, but she is in this trailer:

She has the same breathy voice and slightly resembles Elizabeth Warren. Seeing her after all this time makes wish me GL had brought Elizabeth back at some point, even for a short arc.

@Alan Thanks! She does still sound the same. You may want to put this in the soap stars where are they now thread.

18 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Frank I think there was a case for keeping as he always had family around and was a popular figure in the late '80s to mid '90s. I guess he was also very cheap. Tina Sloan has less of a case but I guess she was too (there was a rumor, no idea if it was true, that she was not paid much because she didn't need the money and just wanted to work).

Frank was always a character much like Fletch who was just there, and his popularity stemmed more from MK's star power than his. But characters like him make the show more believable, but I never got the show trying hard to make him work like making him a cop and chief of police especially since it didn't suit the character or the actor( keeping Frank, like the actor, a nice sweet guy, who is the sane person in the family worked but not an authority figure..and keeping him and Deas on contract over JVD was a crime. Lillian is another support player and a show needs a nurse...I just hated how she supported Beth's new personality without calling her on it. With PS gone I would have recast Mike and got him and Lillian together but having her as the Bauer matriarch might have blown peoples fuses!

 

10 hours ago, Alan said:

She has the same breathy voice and slightly resembles Elizabeth Warren. Seeing her after all this time makes wish me GL had brought Elizabeth back at some point, even for a short arc

I would have brought her back during "Who shot Phillip" and she would have been the one to fake his death and hide Phillip as he got well...the character had her her own money and her own mental health issues, so it would work. 

10 hours ago, Alan said:

This is random, but I am popping in because while researching past GL actors I was surprised to find that Lezlie Dalton (Elizabeth Spaulding) emerged from an apparent forty-year retirement to appear in a short film last year. I can't find the full film, but she is in this trailer:

She has the same breathy voice and slightly resembles Elizabeth Warren. Seeing her after all this time makes wish me GL had brought Elizabeth back at some point, even for a short arc.

Thank you for posting that, Alan. I always liked Lezlie Dalton so it was interesting to see her now. 

The conversation regarding the lack of Emmy wins for Guiding Light has been interesting to read. I'm shocked the show didn't win Best Drama Series at all between 1990 to 1993. For me, that was the show's last great era.

It's also maddening that Michael Zaslow only won once and Maureen Garrett never won at all. These actors, as well as others, are the reason I watched the show. Their performances were always so grounded and measured. There was so much truth in their work. 

Annette 

 

 

Edited June 24, 20241 yr by GL Oldtimer

19 hours ago, Khan said:

If I'm not mistaken, Y&R's actors also had difficulty getting any "Emmy love" before Terry Lester finally broke through w/ his first nod either in '84 or '85.  But I tend to think the Academy was biased against the West Coast-based soaps in general, and biased against Y&R in particular, due to its' heavily stylized nature.

Conversely, actors on DAYS and on AW started out as front-runners and odds-on favorites in Emmy races, but after Douglass Watson's back-to-back victories in the early '80's, it was difficult for them to receive nominations, let alone wins.  Which makes the rare NBC win afterwards (like Leann Hunley's in '85 or '86 for DAYS, or all of AW's wins during the JFP era) all the more remarkable, because, aside from SaBa, it's as if the Academy had written off the NBC shows as lightweight.

From what I understood, once Bergman joined Y & R.. he helped bring along the practices that he learned while at AMC to the show.

Hence why you saw a huge increase in noms and wins in the early 90s and thereafter.  

Maitland and Traci B were the first winners at Y & R.

 

Part of the problem when determining who gets a nom and who wins will boil down to what episode/s you submit.  So Kim Zimmer always had the big moments given to her so she was able to secure noms and wins.. while someone like Garrett went the more subtle route and that sadly is never ever awarded an Emmy.

And I actually didn't mind Alex outing Mindy to Billy.. because Mindy had it coming.

Also, I remember on  one of the Locher room interviews Curlee explained that she and Long were not in total agreement of the Mindy/Roger affair story. 

Long felt that it was in character for Mindy to hook up with Roger one time due to impulse... but not to continue with pursuing an affair with Roger at the expense of Alexandra.   I would have to agree that it seemed out of character for Mindy to continually go for Roger and be almost gleeful over it.

Curlee in the Locher Room interview rubbed me the wrong way... she seemed almost like one of those toxic women that cause issues for other women at a job.

6 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

Frank was always a character much like Fletch who was just there, and his popularity stemmed more from MK's star power than his. But characters like him make the show more believable, but I never got the show trying hard to make him work like making him a cop and chief of police especially since it didn't suit the character or the actor( keeping Frank, like the actor, a nice sweet guy, who is the sane person in the family worked but not an authority figure..and keeping him and Deas on contract over JVD was a crime. Lillian is another support player and a show needs a nurse...I just hated how she supported Beth's new personality without calling her on it. With PS gone I would have recast Mike and got him and Lillian together but having her as the Bauer matriarch might have blown peoples fuses!

I would have brought her back during "Who shot Phillip" and she would have been the one to fake his death and hide Phillip as he got well...the character had her her own money and her own mental health issues, so it would work. 

I definitely would have gotten rid of Frank over Jerry. I wonder if that was a money issue. 

Lillian I am mostly surprised lasted through the '90s. When Beth returned she did have more of a role.