From the beginning Lillian's fortunes were tightly bound to her daughter, Beth, who was raped by her stepfather, Lillian's battering husband. Sloan is both quick and eager to point out that the antecedents for the continuing bond between Beth and Phillip lie in this original story. "Phillip was the one who helped Beth through the incest," Sloan explains. "She confided in him, and he took her away. Those two would have done everything for each other. Then new head writers came along, had her meet someone else and not want him anymore. That would never have happened, and that's the way I still play it; like Harley is a total joke. I act like she doesn't exist."

I have to agree with Tina Sloan on this. But wasnt Pam Long the HW for Philli/Beth and Beth/Lujack?

Never ever did I buy Phillip and Harley because they had already established them as sorta like a Big Bri/Lil Sis to me, so I saw no romantic energy from them

Edited January 6, 201114 yr by shadow

Could Tina have meant the writers who after Phillip's 1996 return, said Beth was now with another man?

I liked Harley and Phillip at first but then it became a real energy drain, Harley lost all her spirit and life and humor and Phillip judged her too much. They also had this "wacky" theme that played in every scene, it drove me crazy.

That's surprising about Alex and Sally. I never knew that. I guess I can see why that bothered Beverlee less than the JFP stuff because with JFP Alex just became a crazy and obsessive old lady.

Did you enjoy the Sonni/Alex friendship? That seems so unique to me, compared to most of Alex's relationships.

Beth has only been in love with one other man besides Phillip and that was Lujack. It started in 84, in May Beth was telling Phillip she would only love him and in June she was proclaiming she was in love with Lujack the ish made no sense and I think it was all written by Pam Long!

When Phillip returned in 86, Beth was "dead", in 96 I do not remember Philli saying Beth was with another man when he returned. If memory serves me Beth dumped Phillip (off screen_ in 96 because he wouldnt reurtn to her and Lizzie and wanted to stay in Springfield to find out who in the Spaulding gamil set him up for Neil's murder!

Edited January 6, 201114 yr by shadow

I have to agree with Tina Sloan on this. But wasnt Pam Long the HW for Philli/Beth and Beth/Lujack?

Never ever did I buy Phillip and Harley because they had already established them as sorta like a Big Bri/Lil Sis to me, so I saw no romantic energy from them

I think she means E & B when Harley came back. I remember that Sloan did indeed act dismissively with Harley, which is weird, as that was not very Lillian of her. I remember the whackos on the Pharley board going nuts over it.

Phillip and Harley were fun for a while, but when they were treated like this great love, uh no. And yea, they would always play that goofy music when they were on. To her credit Ehlers said in interviews that both she and GA felt they shouldn't have brought the Beth character back so soon, as they had a great love, and Phillip and Harley were just starting to get to know each other. Ehlers felt that there was no way the relationship could have stood that test. But E & B tried to fix that by regressing Beth to a neurotic girl and a raging bitch to boot, so the audience would root for poor widdle Harley.

Yeah they did the same to Phillip in 84 to prop Beth/Lujack, didnt work then and didnt work when they did it to Beth

Beth became a real bitch, although that seemed to suit Beth Chamberlin. Her best scenes were with Ben Warren, that was such a complex relationship. Unfortunately the show did not want to commit to that and Ben was sucked into the Carmen and Santos orbit while Matt and Beth had that awful stuff about Beth telling Vanessa to get plastic surgery (Maeve Kinkead, of all people...have you seen that face?), then the boring Beth/Jim.

Lillian could be a very self-righteous cow, especially in the mid/late 90s; I remember those bizarre scenes, which, as you mention, Mitch, showed McTavish didn't get history, when Lillian and Vanessa sat around with Annie, trashing Reva. Lillian was the last person who should be passing judgment on anyone for breaking up a marriage.

Beth became a real bitch, although that seemed to suit Beth Chamberlin. Her best scenes were with Ben Warren, that was such a complex relationship. Unfortunately the show did not want to commit to that and Ben was sucked into the Carmen and Santos orbit while Matt and Beth had that awful stuff about Beth telling Vanessa to get plastic surgery (Maeve Kinkead, of all people...have you seen that face?), then the boring Beth/Jim.

Lillian could be a very self-righteous cow, especially in the mid/late 90s; I remember those bizarre scenes, which, as you mention, Mitch, showed McTavish didn't get history, when Lillian and Vanessa sat around with Annie, trashing Reva. Lillian was the last person who should be passing judgment on anyone for breaking up a marriage.

Beth C could make a great bitch. They had the golden opportunity when she married Alan to keep the Spaulding power and so no one could push her around again...after marrying him she had a good scene where she triumphantly proclaims "They will NEVER let him out!" Made perfect sense at that time. Alan needed a "rest," at that time so they could have had him manipulating her from behind bars, etc. but they let him out and she was screwing him and in love with him???? Made no sense at all (and grossed me out. ) From then on Kreizman had her alternating between being a victim of Alan to a vindictive mean bitch (i.e her scenes with Mel and then trying to screw over Rick with the baby thing, she would NEVER do that to Rick of all people.)

GLisNo1 Is there any chance you can share some of the data you collected over the years? The only numbers for appearances I've seen available are from mid-92 forward.

Tina Sloan was talking about Phillip and Harley not being a real relationship. She said that in the 90s which caused a big war on the web. I liked Beth and Ben also as it fit with the more damaged/bitter version of her character.

If there was apps for GL would you watch on your computer, ipad, ipod and etc.

GLisNo1 Is there any chance you can share some of the data you collected over the years? The only numbers for appearances I've seen available are from mid-92 forward.

Tina Sloan was talking about Phillip and Harley not being a real relationship. She said that in the 90s which caused a big war on the web. I liked Beth and Ben also as it fit with the more damaged/bitter version of her character.

I don't really add up data. I have a teacher like attendance record thing. A check mark thing. Then I made notes of when a new Producer or writer started. If you ask specifically from 1982 onward, I could tell you if so and so was on a particular episode. But I've never taken the time to add up episode appearances.

Do you have any idea of when this close was?

Do you have any idea of when this close was?

Sadly I do, but I can't remember my mom's birthday! That was in the fall of 85, (when the show started to fall apart, I can't believe Curlee was there, and McTrash was still there) under the horrible Jeff Ryder.) That was Ross who opened his own office (that office was still around during Wheeler, they pulled it out for a celebration of JVD's anniversary and JVD found a copy of a mocked up clip of "Marler gets Mindy Lewis acquital, saves Lewis Oil," or something ) and Vanessa went to work for him as, believe it or not, his secretary!!!! It was supposed to jump start a Ross/Van/Billy triangle. And this was right before I think Mindy going on trial and Infinity???

Side note, remember when Bruce Jenner was cute before he fucked up his face with plastic surgery!

Edited January 8, 201114 yr by Mitch

Beth has only been in love with one other man besides Phillip and that was Lujack. It started in 84, in May Beth was telling Phillip she would only love him and in June she was proclaiming she was in love with Lujack the ish made no sense and I think it was all written by Pam Long!

When Phillip returned in 86, Beth was "dead", in 96 I do not remember Philli saying Beth was with another man when he returned. If memory serves me Beth dumped Phillip (off screen_ in 96 because he wouldnt reurtn to her and Lizzie and wanted to stay in Springfield to find out who in the Spaulding gamil set him up for Neil's murder!

I kinda agree Beth and Lujack were pushed together a little TOO quick in the beginning. The "fast love" I'm sure was due to the Bolger recast (I'm not sure they would have been so hasty if Grant was staying). Equally nonsensical though was instantly bringing Beth and Phillip back together so soon after Lujack's death.

Phillip "returned" in 86?

Vanessa as a legal secretary, that's ridiculous. So who was at Lewis at the time, and why was Vanessa not at Spaulding? I remember reading that they had numerous writing teams/changes that year, so it was confusing for everyone.

Sadly I do, but I can't remember my mom's birthday! That was in the fall of 85, (when the show started to fall apart, I can't believe Curlee was there, and McTrash was still there) under the horrible Jeff Ryder.) That was Ross who opened his own office (that office was still around during Wheeler, they pulled it out for a celebration of JVD's anniversary and JVD found a copy of a mocked up clip of "Marler gets Mindy Lewis acquital, saves Lewis Oil," or something ) and Vanessa went to work for him as, believe it or not, his secretary!!!! It was supposed to jump start a Ross/Van/Billy triangle. And this was right before I think Mindy going on trial and Infinity???

Side note, remember when Bruce Jenner was cute before he fucked up his face with plastic surgery!

That wasn't Vanessa in the clip though? I don't think she would have worn a leather skirt.

I never knew she went to work for him. That doesn't seem like her.

Thanks for the extra details. I loved Ross...characters like that aren't allowed on soaps anymore. Too "boring," I assume. GL was stupid to cut Jerry loose so casually.

Edited January 9, 201114 yr by CarlD2