I watched some of Nina Landey's Locher Room interview last night. Her sound kept going out and I also had to miss a few parts, but it's worth watching if you ever need something for the background - she has a very interesting life story and good screen presence.

Most of the talk wasn't about GL. She did say that she was originally only hired for four or five episodes. She said she had talks at the time with Frank Beaty about the story and knew the struggle had to go through being in that part for so long.

She also mentioned how transphobic the story is now, looking back.

She said that at some points when she had to cry she managed real tears. Another time, she couldn't as she thought the script was bad. She just had to fake it. When she watched herself onscreen she realized she couldn't tell any difference between the two scenes and that made her question the whole acting process.

The part which stood out for me most was when she said that at the time she already identified as a lesbian, but when she signed a contract with GL there was a morals clause, so her agents told her not to come out. Her first day on the show, one of the gay makeup artists was asking her if she had a boyfriend or husband. She hated having to lie but she lied that she had a boyfriend.

Edited October 30Oct 30 by DRW50

4 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

Did you use the Vault to watch or do you have another source with all the episodes? I can't wait to start, and really want to start in late 1989, as others have suggested, but the Vault we use here just doens't have all the episodes until about late '91 or '92. I'm curious if there is another place to go with more episodes. I hate missing a thing!

It was before they were wiped off of YouTube. This was like right when the shutdowns happened for maybe a year. I missed an episode here and there because they were not on YouTube, but a lot of it was. I had heard how good it was and decided to find it when I had nothing but time.

One thing that period has going for it, especially during Calhoun, was the sheer amount of chemistry popping all over the place. There were so many directions for romances to go because there were sparks everywhere.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

She said she had talks at the time with Frank Beaty about the story and knew the struggle had to go through being in that part for so long.

Do I think this story was too dark for GL? Honestly yes. I also hated that they killed Nadine the way they did and her body just isn’t found for I think months? And it is problematic. I also found it genuinely scary and thrilling. But it also has a seedy element that overpowers the storytelling.

1 minute ago, titan1978 said:

Do I think this story was too dark for GL? Honestly yes. I also hated that they killed Nadine the way they did and her body just isn’t found for I think months? And it is problematic. I also found it genuinely scary and thrilling. But it also has a seedy element that overpowers the storytelling.

The story probably was too dark. Rape, child abuse, HIV test switching, murder, an HIV-positive woman being beaten into a coma. I can see why people would have a problem with the story, especially today. At the time, the performances and momentum mostly carried the plot for me and I wasn't as repulsed as I was by, say, Ben being a serial killer because he'd been sexually abused. Maybe because this story was not presented as anything beyond a thriller, while Ellen Weston pretended her stories were awareness-based.

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I watched some of Nina Landey's Locher Room interview last night. Her sound kept going out and I also had to miss a few parts, but it's worth watching if you ever need something for the background - she has a very interesting life story and good screen presence.

Most of the talk wasn't about GL. She did say that she was originally only hired for four or five episodes. She said she had talks at the time with Frank Beaty about the story and knew the struggle had to go through being in that part for so long.

She also mentioned how transphobic the story is now, looking back.

She said that at some points when she had to cry she managed real tears. Another time, she couldn't as she thought the script was bad. She just had to fake it. When she watched herself onscreen she realized she couldn't tell any difference between the two scenes and that made her question the whole acting process.

The part which stood out for me most was when she said that at the time she already identified as a lesbian, but when she signed a contract with GL there was a morals clause, so her agents told her not to come out. Her first day on the show, one of the gay makeup artists was asking her if she had a boyfriend or husband. She hated having to lie but she lied that she had a boyfriend.

Thank you for the recap! Did she mention any possibility of extending her stay on GL had Beatty extended his (which was rumored to be offered)? I hate that she went through what she did. While not perfect, I'm glad the times have gotten much better about things like this. So hard to imagine the 'morals' clauses back then which prevented you from being who you were, even in the 90s.

8 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

It was before they were wiped off of YouTube. This was like right when the shutdowns happened for maybe a year. I missed an episode here and there because they were not on YouTube, but a lot of it was. I had heard how good it was and decided to find it when I had nothing but time.

One thing that period has going for it, especially during Calhoun, was the sheer amount of chemistry popping all over the place. There were so many directions for romances to go because there were sparks everywhere.

Ahh ok yes. You were lucky to have that at the time. When I started watching GL a couple years ago, there was a wonderful Blake Marler channel that had most of the episodes that I used before the Vault, but it was a sad dark day when that was taken down.

6 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

The story probably was too dark. Rape, child abuse, HIV test switching, murder, an HIV-positive woman being beaten into a coma. I can see why people would have a problem with the story, especially today. At the time, the performances and momentum mostly carried the plot for me and I wasn't as repulsed as I was by, say, Ben being a serial killer because he'd been sexually abused. Maybe because this story was not presented as anything beyond a thriller, while Ellen Weston pretended her stories were awareness-based.

I still really enjoy 1995 and that whole umbrella storyline, but when you list it out like that, darn, it was dark haha! It still had that intense "I need to tune in to see what happens next" feel to it though, which I love. I guess we can always throw in there the feel-good love stories happening at the time to balance it out - Annie/Josh, Matt/Vanessa, A-M/Lucy as a result, and Holly/Fletcher to an extent.

1 minute ago, alwaysAMC said:

Thank you for the recap! Did she mention any possibility of extending her stay on GL had Beatty extended his (which was rumored to be offered)?

I was hoping she'd be asked about that but she wasn't.

8 minutes ago, alwaysAMC said:

I still really enjoy 1995 and that whole umbrella storyline, but when you list it out like that, darn, it was dark haha! It still had that intense "I need to tune in to see what happens next" feel to it though, which I love. I guess we can always throw in there the feel-good love stories happening at the time to balance it out - Annie/Josh, Matt/Vanessa, A-M/Lucy as a result, and Holly/Fletcher to an extent.

It’s interesting. Because I think it’s an effective thriller that was well plotted to last as long as it did with all the elements @DRW50 pointed out. It would have fit right in on The Edge of Night, or DAYS with their multiple serial killers over the 80’s. But it just feels so nasty for Guiding Light.

Guiding Light always had a Gothic and dark element lurking beneath the surface going all the way back to the 1960s. I just think the Marian/Brent story just brought those elements to the surface and it was during an odd period for the show.

One of the many downfalls of the 2020s is a return to wearing puritanical lenses where everything that was done before 2020 is considered dark and problematic. Soaps used to be able to push the envelope into these darker corners of storytelling... and I'd rather got back to stories like the Marian/Brent story than the majority of what is showing on soap operas in 2026 that is playing too safe.

15 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Guiding Light always had a Gothic and dark element lurking beneath the surface going all the way back to the 1960s. I just think the Marian/Brent story just brought those elements to the surface and it was during an odd period for the show.

One of the many downfalls of the 2020s is a return to wearing puritanical lenses where everything that was done before 2020 is considered dark and problematic. Soaps used to be able to push the envelope into these darker corners of storytelling... and I'd rather got back to stories like the Marian/Brent story than the majority of what is showing on soap operas in 2026 that is playing too safe.

You could probably say the '50s, based on @Rev. Ruthledge synopses. The stories for Kathy and Robin were disturbing.

I think there are valid complaints about past stories and I can see why people would find the story transphobic. I didn't because it was done at a time when trans people were not a heavy topic of conversation so I don't think that was the intent, but I'm not surprised if some fans struggle now, in the current climate for trans people.

Edited October 30Oct 30 by DRW50

Just now, DRW50 said:

You could probably say the '50s, based on @Reverend Ruthledge synopses. The stories for Kathy and Robin were disturbing.

I think there are valid complaints about past stories and I can see why people would find the story transphobic. I didn't because it was done at a time when trans people were not a heavy topic of conversation so I don't think that was the intent, but I'm not surprised if some fans struggle now, in the current climate for trans people.

I thought the Robin story her last two years on air was so organic and showing a portrait of someone gradually losing her grip on her mental health.. and unaliving herself was quite dark and daring for 1967. Same thing with what happened to Lee Randolph on AW where she was killed in a car accident as she grapples with the ghost of someone that she'd killed the year before.

Soaps were pretty dark back in the day.. and it's so sad that soaps play it so safe nowadays.

I’m up to October 25, 1999.

*Starting 10/21, the next day previews are back with new/better graphics and longer scenes.

Phillip meets with Richard and tells him that if they build a new factory in San Cristobel, then Josh and Matt will be heading up the construction and he will need to be ok with it. Meanwhile, Harley and Cassie are having breakfast and Harley says she should pursue Richard, Reva be damned, since it’s clear Cassie is into him. As Harley goes to the bathroom, her cell rings and Cassie answers it, which happens to be Richard. He’s calling next to Phillip, who told Richard that he’ll also need to get Harley’s permission to close the deal. The chat is awkward and Cassie tells Richard to have a good trip home. Cassie then tells herself this will be harder than she thought (giving up on Richard).

Reva catches Marah trying to sneak out, and Marah starts laying into Reva for loving Richard and ruining things with the family and Josh. Reva tries to convince her that she’s not interested in Richard and that she went to that party to tell Richard she never wants to see or talk to him again. Marah doesn’t believe it, saying Reva dressed up too nicely and was too warm to Richard to be believable. Reva then tells her how she left Jonathan, which upsets Marah and says she just left him like she left her and Shayne back in the day. Marah says Shayne was too young, but she wasn’t and remembers how awful it was when her car drove off the bridge and Josh worked so hard to try and find her. Marah, being too upset to hear Reva, storms out of the house. Reva grabs her keys and runs after her, but is stopped by a package at the door. She opens it and there’s a note from a neighbor saying they tried to drop off bank notes to Cassie, but she wasn’t home so they left a message with Reva (this doesn’t make much sense). She calls the neighbor and finds out Richard paid off Cassie’s debt, which surprises Reva. Meanwhile, Marah goes to Cassie’s house and cries about the situation, but Cassie tries to tell her that Reva did what she could. Reva then shows up, saying she wants to finish her conversation with Marah. She tells Marah to go home and she’ll meet her there, but she first wants to talk to Cassie. Reva tells Cassie she doesn’t want her interfering in her life anymore, and that she now knows she’s using Richard to pay her debts. Cassie is surprised and says Richard didn’t give her money, but Reva yells at her, saying she better not lie to her (oh, that’s rich!). Reva then presents the bank notices that say Richard did it, which shocks Cassie, who says she asked him specifically not to do this. Reva then demands to know what Cassie did in return for him to do this. She continues to deny it, but Reva says she didn’t even know Cassie was in debt and asks why she didn’t come to them instead. Cassie says she didn’t want to put more problems on their plate and they continue to argue, with Reva accusing Cassie of wanting to be the Princess of San Cristobel. She tells Cassie to stop dreaming because in reality, Richard is just using Cassie to get to her, which stings. Cassie tells her to start focusing on her problems with Josh and Marah and stop blaming her issues on her.

Phillip calls an emergency meeting with Josh, Billy and Jim to discuss the new project he’s working on. He tells them he knows Spaulding and Lewis Oil have a checkered history, but would love to have Lewis Oil be part of it all. He then surprises them by bringing Richard out, saying the project is based in San Cristobel. Josh says there is no way he’s working with Richard, but Richard says he’s willing to put hard feelings behind them and Phillip says this is just business. Billy stands up and supports Josh, saying there is no way. Josh and Richard leave to argue, with Josh telling Richard he knows everything that happened with Reva at Cross Creek. Richard is surprised and Josh tells him to just finally go home. Josh storms back into the office and tells Phillip he’s not going along with the deal. Phillip is disappointed and Beth, who is there and overhears, privately calls the secretary and asks for Reva’s cell number. She calls Reva, who is still arguing with Cassie, and tells her everything about the project, and how Richard is heading to the airport to go back to San Cristobel. Reva is upset and rushes out to stop it all. Josh continues to tell Phillip that he can take the company if he wants, which Billy agrees, but he’ll never do business with Richard. He says Lewis Oil was built by his family, with trust and good values, but that died when Spaulding took it over and it’s now become about greed and bad business. He says without the Lewis’s there, Lewis Oil will just be Oil, and Phillip tells him he’s making a big mistake. Billy says they’ll start and build a new company from scratch and bury Spaulding, and Jim and Matt stand up with Josh and Billy and say they’ll join them. Phillip says good luck, and Beth asks Jim if he’s really sure this is a good idea considering his personal finances. Jim says it’ll be fine, he can go back to teaching part-time, but Beth says she can float them for a bit. Billy then says he’s proud of Josh and that HB would be proud of him today too.

Everyone has left, leaving Josh at the office alone, when Reva shows up. He tells her Lewis Oil no longer exists and he gave it up for her. She can’t believe it, saying it means too much to him and can’t let it go. He says he can’t take orders from Richard. They fight yet again about her feelings over Richard, but Reva says she doesn’t want Richard and asks Josh if he’s leaving her. He says so much has changed and that may be the only option for him at this point, which shocks Reva. He leaves and comes back later that night, while the kids are gone, and Reva says he can’t stay away from her. She continues telling him she can’t love anyone else like she loves Josh and kisses him. He doesn’t pull back, but is quiet, and Reva says she can be patient and wait until he’s ready to accept her love again. He says he’s ready and pulls her in to a passionate kiss.

Meanwhile, Cassie storms onto Richard’s plane and yells at him for paying her debts, saying she isn’t a charity case. Richard says he knows how much the farm means to her and doesn’t want her to lose it. The plane revs up, which makes Cassie fall into Richard’s lap, and she freaks out saying she needs to get off the plane, but Richard says it’s too late, she’s going to San Cristobel with him now. Richard then asks if she has feelings for him, but she says there is no way she does, and he says he’s only kidding. He then orders a bunch of food and asks if she wants anything from the chef, which makes her start to feel like royalty. He eventually tells Cassie that he will no longer pursue Reva and that he must go about his duties, which are taking care of his country, finding another partner and having a son that will take over the palace. He says he’s not a monk and wants to find a wife and Cassie dreams about them kissing. She later falls asleep while Richard is working and dreams of Richard proposing to her (oh brother haha), and she says “Yes, Richard” out loud, while still asleep, which Richard hears. He holds her shoulders and she wakes up, freaking out. He says he wonders why she said “Yes, Richard”, which she gets weird about, but they’re interrupted by a phone call. Richard says the landing has been compromised because there is trouble on the ground with protesters against Richard. She gets concerned, but Richard has a plan to get in a car and escape the protesters after they have a bumpy landing. She gets nervous, but he tells her not to worry because he won’t let anything happen to her.

Back in SF, Reva and Josh are holding each other and Reva suggests they have a nice family dinner tomorrow and reconnect. She promises Josh that the Richard thing is finally over and behind them, and Josh says if that’s true, then it’s behind him too. He leaves to get some work done and Reva gets a call from Cassie’s babysitter who tells her that Cassie left on a trip to a place called San Cristobel with a man named Richard. Reva is upset and asks herself what the hell Cassie is up to. We then see Josh telling Marah and Shayne about their family dinner and how they all need to reconnect, but Marah is suspicious and still not happy with Reva about her past life with Richard. Reva then shows up with Tammy and RJ and tells them about Cassie leaving town and how they will be staying with them now. Reva tells Josh she’s suspected that Cassie has a crush on Richard, which surprises Josh, who says Cassie wouldn’t just leave her kids like this. Tammy and Marah overhear Reva telling Josh that Cassie is with Richard and Tammy gets excited, saying it’s like a fairytale that her mom went off with a prince.

Cassie and Edmund arrive in San Cristobel and have to get into the palace through a secret tunnel with the helped of armed guards, to protect themselves from the angry protesters. Richard tells Cassie that both his whole life and the country fell apart when Catherine/Reva left because she was a woman of the people who the commoners loved. We then see protesters trying to get into the palace and Cassie is scared. The main palace guard tells Richard that Edmund has taken over the public radio, telling people that Richard has abandoned them. He brings in delegates of the protesters and tells them he was in America to bring Spaulding and a new company to San Cristobel so they can prosper, and that Edmund is lying to them. Cassie then speaks up and says she knows how they feel because of her past, not knowing how she can take care of her daughter or where the next paycheck is coming from. She tells them that Richard helped her and he will help all of them. She hands over Catherine’s tiara and tells them to take it and pay off their debts, because they can trust Richard. They take it and the protesters eventually disperse, seemingly happy with Cassie’s words and gifts. She leaves to call her babysitter and Richard seems impressed, but jokes with the guard to lock up the rest of the valuable diamonds. The guard tells him that Cassie saved the day and it’s clear that people want to see a woman in the palace again and Richard needs to give them a new princess, implying that Cassie is the one. We then see Cassie call Reva, saying that the babysitter told her that she took Tammy and RJ. Reva accuses Cassie of leaving her kids for Richard and the call doesn’t go well, with Cassie saying she’s overreacting. Reva wants to know what she and Richard are doing, but Cassie hangs up on her. Cassie later tells Richard about her past, where she was part of the foster system and had to work hard for herself and Tammy. Richard tells her that he admires her for her resolve, but Cassie says she has to go back home in the morning to be with her kids.

Josh accuses Reva of being too upset that Richard and Cassie are together and that she can’t stand it. Reva storms off and the doorbell then rings. Josh opens the door and Olivia is standing there, saying she didn’t know where else to go. She hands Josh her resume and says she needs a job, which Josh laughs to and says unfortunately he no longer has a company at the moment. Reva walks in and asks Josh to check on something in the kitchen. After he leaves, Reva tells Olivia she can stop pining after Josh, she knows about the kiss she gave him, and she will never have Josh. Olivia is rattled a little and Josh walks back in, to which Olivia says she needs to leave and thanks them for everything. Reva then gives Josh a hard time, telling him to go sleep with Olivia to get it out of his system so they can be even and then more forward, which frustrates them both. Josh steps outside to breathe and Olivia walks back up, saying she left her purse, but tells Josh she understands why he told Reva about their kiss because he’s an honorable man.

The next day, Bill, Danny and Michelle are having lunch to celebrate their new beginnings (Danny in music and Michelle with nursing school). As they’re toasting, Ben, Carmen and Pilar walk in. They try to ignore them, but Teresa then walks in and joins Ben’s table, which surprises Michelle and prompts her to ask Danny since when does Teresa join family meals. They tell Bill all about who Teresa is and Michelle voices her concerns about Ben potentially arranging Teresa to be in LA with Danny and on his same flight, so she assumes they’re all meddling to cause trouble. Danny assures them both they can try all they want, but he has no interest in Teresa. Danny gets up and confronts Carmen privately about Ben arranging the LA trip. Carmen lies and says she casually told Ben about Teresa, but nothing is happening. She then talks to Ben and asks why he’s meddling without letting her know, and he brushes it off saying it’s nothing, he just has a project that Teresa is helping him with. Danny later tells Michelle he’s willing to get out of this music venture if it will make her more comfortable because of the Teresa thing, but Michelle says no, this is important and it keeps him out of the family business. Teresa then walks up and says she got a potential musician to sign and he’s playing that night at Millennium and Michelle says they’ll be there. Bill, overhearing the Millennium gig, later walks up to Carmen’s table and asks Teresa to be his date that night. She turns him down, saying that night is about business only. After Bill walks away, Pilar gets irritated and says it was absolutely for the best that she broke up with Bill, which Carmen agrees. She walks away and drops her diary, which Ben notices, and privately tells her she better put that under lock and key before it gets into the wrong hands. Pilar thanks him, and later tells herself she will be his nightmare. She starts writing in her diary about waking up and having a great dream about Ben, and wondering if she is developing feelings for him. She later tells Ben she’s definitely over Bill and thinks she needs an older, more mature man. She plants her diary in the living room so Ben can easily find it, and he does and reads the entry she wrote about him, as Pilar watches from the hallway. She enters and grabs the diary, asking if he read it. He says no, even though she knows he did, and she thanks him and walks away.

Michelle overhears Teresa making a call to her business partner, telling him to find a way to get her and Danny back in LA together. Michelle rips the phone out of her hands and says she’s onto her and there is no way she’s getting Danny back. Teresa says she’s wrong and doesn’t want Danny, and calls Michelle insecure. They verbally spar and Danny interrupts them, asking what’s going on. We then later see a packed Millennium, with people salsa dancing and Michelle/Danny walk in. They see Teresa, who finds a man to start dancing sexy with. Michelle grabs Danny and they start dancing, and the girls try to upstage each other. Later, when Michelle is looking for Drew, Teresa approaches Danny and asks him if they remember winning a dance competition back in the day and she tries to get him to dance, but Michelle comes back and grabs him back on the dance floor, which annoys Teresa. After they dance awhile, Michell leaves to grab water. Teresa puts on a show on the dance floor and grabs Danny who starts to dance closely with her as the crowd cheers them on (Danny, you’re an idiot). Of course Michelle walks in and sees this and isn’t happy. Danny sees Michelle and stops dancing and thanks Michelle for the water, saying he needed it. Teresa tells them it reminded her of them going out back in the day and dancing all night. Danny, a bit fed up, sits the three of them down and tries to get them to realize that Teresa was his first love and important to him in his past, but Michelle is his life now and they need to come together and accept those facts. Michelle agrees and Teresa pretends to accept it, but walks away, saying she has more work to do. She goes to the Santos mansion and cries to Carmen and Ben that she’s lost Danny and he’s not interested in her. Carmen consoles her, but eventually she and Ben convince Teresa that Danny was overcompensating to impress Michelle and she should continue to pursue him, because she is Danny’s one true love. On her way out, Ben privately gives Teresa a vial full of a pharmaceutical aphrodisiac called Fantasy, and tells her to use a little on Danny and he won’t be able to resist her. She’s not excited about the idea, but Ben says this is the only chance she has left. She says she won’t do it, but takes the vial in case she changes her mind. Teresa goes back to Millennium and apologizes to Danny, and that even though she may have lingering feelings, she wants to continue working with him in a platonic manner. Danny says he doesn’t think he can continue pursuing this music career with her, which disappoints Teresa, but he does finally agree to helping her close out signing their one last band tomorrow night and then he’s done.

Ben meets with Jesse and gives him a fatherly hard time, asking how he plans to treat Drew and take care of her financially. Jesse gets a little irritated, saying he knows Drew better than Ben, and just because he’s been her father for a minute, doesn’t mean he can act this way with him. Drew then shows up, saying she’s excited to spend the morning with her two favorite men.

Buzz is taking care of Selena at the firehouse and they bicker a bit, in a lovable way, but it’s clear Selena is trying not to give into her love for him. As she’s doing some physical therapy, her leg starts to cramp and hurt and Buzz tries to give her painkillers. She freaks out and says she can’t take them because she’s a former addict, which surprises Buzz.

The next night, Drew and Jesse are at Millennium and Drew is stressed trying to make sure the packed place is running smoothly. Jesse notices two New York Giants football players, Tiki Barber and Jason Sehorn, and Drew gets excited they have famous people there. Jesse introduces the two of them and they say they’re in Chicago for a game, but wanted to hear music and decided to come to Millennium. Drew gets excited and says this will help the club earn more money, which will help pay for their wedding. Jesse then shows her that he got a prenup drawn up in order to protect Drew from him, just in case things don’t go well. She says they are equal partners and doesn’t want him to worry about it, but he presses. She then pressures him, asking who would say he’s just marrying her for money and he finally says it was Ben, which surprises Drew. She gets angry and says just because Ben is her father, doesn’t give him the right to insult Jesse. She then rips up the prenup and they kiss.

Selena is still in pain, but refuses to take any painkillers. Drew comes by and tells her about being angry with Ben for how he treated Jesse. She tells her about the prenup and how Ben has made Jesse question what he’s doing. Drew says she promised Jesse that she wouldn’t confront Ben about it, so Selena says she’ll talk to him and get it all sorted. After Drew leaves, Selena calls Ben over to talk. Meanwhile, Jesse is confiding in Buzz at Millennium about what is happening and Buzz gives him some solid advice. Drew walks up and Buzz apologizes to Drew, but Drew says his advice is good and thanks him. Drew acknowledges that she doesn’t know Ben that well yet, and if it ever came down to choosing between Ben and Jesse, she’d always choose Jesse.

Susan pushes Max on why he lied at the party about Marah, and Max said he felt bad for Marah and wanted to make her happy. Susan then refers to Max as her boyfriend, which surprises Max, who says he’s not her boyfriend. He says they’re good friends, but that’s all. Susan doesn’t believe it, saying they kissed at her birthday party. She then brings up Marah and lies by saying Marah told her that Max is too young for her and she’s not interested in him. He shrugs that off, saying he could get Marah if he wanted her. He tells her that she’ll always be too young for him and storms off. Susan cries as Harley comes around and she tells Harley about what happened with Max and Marah. She begs Harley to let her live in Paris like Marah did, so she can look and act like her (oh brother!). Harley says no and that she needs to concentrate on someone who will like her for who she is instead, but later Susan tells herself there is no way she’s going to hand Max over to Marah.

Blake, back at the Bauer cabin, calls Harley and tells her about seeing Ross and Holly dancing closely. Harley is surprised and says she guesses maybe she was wrong, and apologizes. While still on the phone, Blake realizes she’s lost her manuscript and freaks out. She realizes she likely dropped it in front of Holly/Ross that night and if they read it, they’ll know who it is. Blake pressures Harley to find it. We then see Ross and Holly together, with Holly gushing over the manuscript they found at her doorstep, saying she can’t stop reading it. She thinks she should get it published and wants to find out who the author is. Ross sees Harley from a distance and gets up to talk to her while she’s on the phone with Blake. Ross wants to hire Harley to find the author and she is hesitant, but accepts. Ross goes back to tell Holly the news, but the waitress interrupts and gives Holly a note. It’s a note from Sam, who says he had to get out of dodge because the situation is too stressful, but he’ll always think of her and how much he enjoyed their time together. A sad Holly accepts it and says like they say on the prairie, ‘easy come, easy go’. Ross hugs and consoles her. So wait, is that really the end of Sam? That seems like a total drop of the character and storyline, if so, which is disappointing. Harley then calls Blake back and gives her the news about Holly’s intentions of publishing the book as a serialized column and how Ross wants to hire her to find the author, and they both freak out on what to do next.

Matt meets Vanessa for dinner and tells her all about Josh and Billy leaving Lewis Oil and starting their own company. He tells her he’s going to join and he’s excited about it. Vanessa says she’s ok with that and wants to make sure he’s happy. She then shows him test results, which say she’s no longer in remission and her sickness is back (oh no!), which shocks Matt. He pledges to stand by her and fight this together, and they will win. Vanessa says she’ll do whatever it takes to fight and beat it.

5 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Hear me out, but it isn't misogynistic for a woman writer to point out the toxicity of women. It's telling the truth. Would it be misandrist for a man to point out the toxicity of men? No, it would be telling the truth.

Curlee was all about southern gothic literature and domineering women are a hallmark of that genre.. and it's rooted in truth because a lot of women are domineering in the south. Curlee was excited when VI became available and thought having him come on as Lujack's long lost twin Nick would make the Alex/Mindy feud even juicier and she expressed how proud she was of the scene where Alex broke into Mindy's house and grabbed/pulled Mindy's hair.

I don't think it's misogynistic to tell stories about a toxic or domineering woman or to tell stories about damaged women. Where would the fun be in perfectly behaved women? I think the problem with GL was that after a certain point in 1992 almost every woman lost her brain cells and her intelligence and she became obsessed with a man. The man could keep his career and (for the most part) have other storylines, but the women's sole purpose was the man. They existed for that man whether the man was a son, a lover or a husband. The women's dialogue would fail the Bechdel test.

There's a real cruelty in GL that I see in stories and work in regards to women: Maureen's situations which ends with her being hacked up. The constant references to Alexandra's age and who would want someone that old when Mindy is so young and vibrant. Taking Eve down such a one-note villain man obsessed path that you have to create this elaborate backstory to explain her desperation. Again, in isolation, it would be ok, but there were three women (Alex, Mindy and Eve) who were obsessed with Nick.

Now that I think of it, did JFP start all the cruelty against the character of Lucy? Was that started under her watch? OR was that Laibson? Curlee was gone by then I believe.

1 minute ago, chrisml said:

Now that I think of it, did JFP start all the cruelty against the character of Lucy? Was that started under her watch? OR was that Laibson? Curlee was gone by then I believe.

I think the rape story began under JFP. I'm not sure.

Curlee was long gone.

JFP then hired Sonia Satra for OLTL as soon as she could and put her in another rape story, one that was loathed by fans (and had her "cured" of rape trauma by having sex with a man in a wine cellar).

Edited October 31Oct 31 by DRW50

2 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

One of the many downfalls of the 2020s is a return to wearing puritanical lenses where everything that was done before 2020 is considered dark and problematic.

I remember it being called out and heavily criticized at the time, so I don’t know about modern puritanical mindset. I remember the soap press really hammering them on having lost their way.

I am far from puritanical and think pushing the envelope is long overdue on these shows. However, it was a lot of repeated victimization of Lucy on a show that was struggling and went all in on this. I think the story had merits and took chances.

As far as being transphobic, I will defer to Trans folks if they feel that way. For me, it falls under the same kind of issues with transphobia that Silence of the Lambs does. I have watched both and I understand the nuance that neither Brent nor Buffalo Bill were Trans, and that Is spelled out in the stories. But it does blur the line if you are marginalized when the closest representation that many in the general public see is psychopaths murdering women.

I would love these shows taking chances like they used to. But unless they are in capable hands, those chances often involve the victimization of women. I also love a good exploitation storyline when handled correctly. Throw Natalie in that well! But there is a line when it becomes kind of gross.

28 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

I remember it being called out and heavily criticized at the time, so I don’t know about modern puritanical mindset. I remember the soap press really hammering them on having lost their way.

I am far from puritanical and think pushing the envelope is long overdue on these shows. However, it was a lot of repeated victimization of Lucy on a show that was struggling and went all in on this. I think the story had merits and took chances.

As far as being transphobic, I will defer to Trans folks if they feel that way. For me, it falls under the same kind of issues with transphobia that Silence of the Lambs does. I have watched both and I understand the nuance that neither Brent nor Buffalo Bill were Trans, and that Is spelled out in the stories. But it does blur the line if you are marginalized when the closest representation that many in the general public see is psychopaths murdering women.

I would love these shows taking chances like they used to. But unless they are in capable hands, those chances often involve the victimization of women. I also love a good exploitation storyline when handled correctly. Throw Natalie in that well! But there is a line when it becomes kind of gross.

Very well-said - thank you.

I don't think we can condemn the past for being the past in terms of knowing about certain topics and how to deal with them. I'm not trans, but I never saw the Brent/Marian storyline as about a trans woman. I saw it as about a murderer who was taking on a disguise to terrorize a character I didn't like and I was enjoying it. I think a lot of viewers were thrilled by Lucy's victimization if they were to be honest.

I