Jump to content

Guiding Light Discussion Thread


Paul Raven

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 17.3k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

  • Members

I agree. I think it goes back to Marland's sudden exit from the show. I'm certain he was planning to bring Rita back. They were setting it up for like a year. Then the EP Allen Potter quickly left after him, and the new people clearly had no interest in bringing her back. I doubt Lenore Kasdorf would have returned. Maybe that's why it took so long, they were looking for the right actress for the recast. She got lost in the shuffle. There would have been lots of potential in bringing her back, IMO.

I like her and feel like she was starting to fulfill her potential during her exit story (much like Ellen Parker did with hers). Up to then she was mostly the dutiful and wronged wife. Then she finally got meatier stuff to play and it was like, bye-bye. Would have loved it if they had brought her back.

Edited by DeeVee
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I'm more than a little spotty on '70's GL history myself. I don't know a lot about Peggy and Roger at all, in fact in reading some stuff, I was a little surprised Roger had been married before Holly.

I don't know if Elvera was ever open to coming back. Although she was most identified with the role, I don't think it's hers for particularly long--maybe five years? It took them around twelve years to recast Amanda, and then they changed her entire personality and dropped her relationship to Jennifer and Morgan.

I think Ed and A-M were closer when it was Carl Evans in the role. Rick Hearst was interacting with the Bauers, but he's always in the middle of some Spaulding plot, whether it's Phillip-drama or A-M trying to make his Spaulding bones.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I disagree here. Sorry new pal... but, Charita was only 62 when she died. That is quite young for her generation and is definitely considered even younger now. Grant, Robert N., Liz, and Kim are all older than that now, and look fantastic. If Grant died today, would you consider him old?

Try sitcomsonline.com. You love it there!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I will never understand how a medium directed at women has so many writers and producers who act as if being a wife or mother is the most horrible thing for a soap character to be.  So bizarre to me. It's just not a few producers or headwriters. It's most if not all of them. It's those maternal characters that a lot of us gravitate towards. It's those characters that ground the show and give the shows the heart when so much ridiculousness is going on. It's those characters that new producers overlook when they want to shake things up. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

I think there have been claims that the show tried to get Lenore back after Roger's return, but it didn't happen. 

There's an SOD from 1986 that mentions the show's plans to bring back Hope, probably with a recast. Instead, we got the new Bauers. I assume once they decided to bring back Alan-Michael a year later as being in his late teens they gave up as they would have seen her as too old, or they thought it would be too confusing for new viewers, especially with no plans to bring Mike back. And then Alan-Michael went way down the list for characters the show cared about.

I think someone here years ago claimed that Elvera was fired because Gail Kobe wanted to show that anyone could go. Which, if true, is a joke given that Kobe ran many of the cast off anyway, and also makes me wonder if she just had it in for the Bauers as it's not as if Hope was a central heroine at that point.

I remember Rick's Alan-Michael in the Bauer kitchen at times but I never felt like they were important to him - he spent most of his time hanging around Spaulding Enterprises and whining about not getting enough respect. 

Robert Newman, IIRC, spoke of those scenes in later years and mentioned that Charita was not doing as well with her recovery as Bert was meant to be doing, which just impressed him even more at how she managed to play the scenes. That's a moving story, but it also speaks of how selfish the powers that be were at that time and how they clearly were ignoring signs they shouldn't have ignored. And then they didn't even bother to give her a proper sendoff. Sometimes I wonder how many viewers they lost for good over that farewell.

Geoffrey Scott was a perfectly serviceable actor, but I don't think you can recast Billy. It's similar to Clint on OLTL. Jerry ver Dorn is one of my favorite soap actors of all time, but I never thought I was watching Clint when I saw him. There was something intrinsic to Jordan - his presence, his heart, his easy chemistry with those around him...even the way Scott tried to imitate Billy's accent grated on me. It didn't help that the show had had a slew of recasts in this period, none of them as strong as the previous portrayers - Scott was sort of a last straw. 

Edited by DRW50
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I think they were going with a Hope recast as they mentioned a "change of character" which I can only assume meant stronger. I think ER even by that time had..uh, not the soap look and I think a Hope who went to New York and started her own business needed a recast with a strong actress who could play a character taking on Alan (so weird that Bert's death was the perfect time of Hope to come home, maybe move into "Grandma's" old house.) But GL just made every slip it could during that time.

That's why JFP got rid of Maureen with the excuse she was boring, as she was a soap rarity, a stay at home Mom (even Kim Hughes had a glam job) that harkened back to the Bert Bauer/Alice Horton/Nancy Hughes days. The focus group would obvisously find her boring as they weren't aware of the context of her role and just watching her serve coffee and be a should to cry on..well, soap audiences were already dumbed down and wanted clones and possessions. 

Funny thing is that I only started to like post resurrection Reva when they made her more support..bouncing in between different characters and timing things together without a huge story(I will forget her miracle baby and foisting Brad Cole on her) If GL was around today Kimmer would have been the Bert Bauer of the show (which was also funny as she bitched that they were trying to turn her into that in 97, but it was more soccer mom (which never suited Reva) then earthy woman who had lived a full life they could have made her later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

It's interesting that we're talking about Charita right now, because if you look at the available older episodes of GL from the 50s and 60s, Bert was NOT the shining matriarch we saw during the 70s and 80s. She was a very complex character. She was dissatisfied with her lot, always disappointed in Bill and later on her children. Papa Bauer was constantly trying to set her straight. He was very fond of her in spite of everything.

That seemed to change around the time Bill was written out of the show and then the actor who played Papa Bauer died.

Regardless of era, she was still an important and vital character. (I like to think the reason she was the one Bauer who was fair to Alan was because of her past).

Bill Bell was very good at creating matriarchs who were interesting and complex. Kay Chancellor from Y&R--she was an alcoholic and nympho and yet anchored the show for decades. Sometimes shows had the "good matriarch" and the "dark matriach"--i.e. Van and Meg on Love of Life, Mary Matthews and Aunt Liz on AW (she wasn't "dark" but she was a terrible busybody), Mona and Phoebe on AMC, etc. Ada on AW was another wonderfully complex matriarch character. Good or dark or something in between, they were very important to the shows they anchored. 

Then GH catapulted soap operas into the mainstream. Before that, soaps were a niche--a very lucrative niche, but still a niche for a certain audience. Soaps started focusing so much on younger characters and trying to pull in a younger audience. The kind of storylines being written did not easily feature middle-aged women who were wives and mothers. 

She had a very successful prime time career. She was booked a lot as a guest star on prime time shows and she did films, as well. She came back to soaps for a time on Santa Barbara. Maybe because the Dobsons, who created Rita, created the part for her?

And we all know what a great decision that was.

The prejudice against older women on soaps strikes again...I don't think it would have been that big a deal.

I wasn't a huge Don Stewart fan, but the show definitely had a hole in it without Mike. Leaving Ross the only major legal eagle was awkward. He was shifting from prosecuting to defense a lot. Also, there was all that history between Mike and Alan that was right there ready to be used. Even though Alan and Ed were far from friends, his hatred of Ed and how he went after him and his family after his 1986 return didn't really ring true. It was almost as if they took scenes that should have been between him and Mike and stuck Ed in there instead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Bert was the poster child for toxic feminity.   She learned her lesson later on that being such a negative toxic individual didn't make her happy nor content.

Bert of the 70s and 80s still had a backbone, was self-sufficient, was active in her community, and had an active social life... and had leaned into her maternal nature.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Recent Posts

    • Jonathan Kellerman has written 40 novels centered on the character of Alex Delaware, with the first being When the Bough Breaks from 1985. One of the aspects of the series which I find so appealing is that characters grow, evolve and change as time goes on. They act and react in a believable, human fashion. While each book tells one complete story, certain relationship threads can continue as the series evolves. Occasional references to the past (from previous novels) also make the readers feel like we know the characters intimately; that we are "living" with them through the years. Actor John Rubenstein (of the 1970s' TV series Family) narrates the audiobooks, and he is perfectly cast. I've never read or listened to an Alex Delaware story which I did not enjoy.
    • This was me! I finally got caught up yesterday and even then, I still may wait until Friday to binge these two episodes. I find that I can watch GH in the background because the pacing is so slow but I must be able to devote my full attention to BTG because so much happens.
    • GH 4-29-25 At the Savoy with a packed house BODY SHOTS!!! https://www.instagram.com/p/DJGRyEaJBYm/ This one has legs. 
    • Article discussing the state of daytime in 1971. The 3 networks were competitive for the first time thus leading to the 'daytime wars' of the 70's, with shows cancelled, soaps expanding etc. The high drama of network daytime CBS, reigning champion of the dollar -profitable weekday schedule, faces toughest challenge in 13 years. Although CBS is virtually unchallenged as the ratings leader in nighttime, the picture in daytime, where CBS also leads, is as different as day from night. To begin with, costs of programing are much lower in daytime than in nighttime TV, and the profitability thus potentially higher. For this reason alone, network rivalry in this area is traditionally intense, although not so frequently subject to public view. This year, particularly, the developments in daytime programing are dramatic. It is the first time in 13 years that CBS has been threatened seriously. It continues in the leadership position, but both NBC and ABC are nipping at its heels; in the season to date, CBS is but three tenths of a percentage point ahead of NBC, and but two-thirds of a percentage point in front of ABC. Average ratings for network programing in the daytime periods (Monday - Friday, 10 a.m. -4:30 p.m. EST) this season stand at CBS 7.6, NBC 7.3 and ABC 7.0, giving CBS an edge of 4% above NBC and 9% over ABC. In the similar period of 1970, CBS's lead was more impressive: 8.4 vs. NBC's 6.9 and ABC's 5.9. It is necessary to go back 13 years to find an NBC daytime performance comparable to this year's -and only twice within that period has NBC showed up as well. In the 1958 -59 sea- son, CBS and NBC were in a tie-a 7.7 rating for each -while ABC was a poor third, just starting on its historic "Operation Daybreak" (in which ABC began the so- called scatter plan in daytime, with advertisers buying participations). ABC's rating then: 3.6. NBC again broke through in daytime in the 1961 -62 season: CBS 7.6, NBC 7.1 and ABC 4.1. In the intervening years, daytime television on the weekdays belonged to CBS. It was at perhaps the crest of its leadership in the 1965 -66 season. CBS then had a 4.5 percentage -point advantage over NBC (CBS 10.6, NBC 6.1 and ABC 4.7). CBS officials place the "big turn" in daytime in the 1962 -63 season with the catchy power of the Password game in the lineup. In that season, CBS came up with a three -percentage -point lead over NBC -CBS 9.2, NBC 6.2 and ABC 3.9. From then on it was CBS by a comfortable margin, season after season. ABC's daytime performance has followed the upward curve. While -as CBS officials readily concede -CBS had perhaps nowhere to go but down, ABC could experiment in its scheduling, and hopefully only go up. It did, but not immediately. After a steady climb, ABC's breakthrough occurred in the 1969 -70 season (CBS 9.2, NBC 7.1 and ABC 7.0) with the network gaining ground with its game show scheduling of such vehicles as Let's Make a Deal. Although ABC failed to hold that showing in the 1970 -71 season (CBS 8.9, NBC 7.6 and ABC 6.4), it is now performing at its best daytime level in history. ABC authorities say that network has been building for what might appear to be at least near parity in weekday programing. They cite Let's Make a Deal as having "started things up" with General Hospital and One Life to Live giving additional impetus to the movement. From ABC's point of view, the crucial change in daytime audiences occurred in 1969 when audience shares foretold a "big difference." The real improvement and change in daytime, they say, started in the third quarter of 1971. That followed a repositioning of two daytime staples -ironically Password, CBS's 1962 -63 vintage powerhouse, and Love, American Style. The former series was punched into a new spot in the schedule last spring: Love followed in the summer (the series is still strong in ABC's nighttime lineup). Although ABC executives speak guardedly of daytime audiences more on a level with those of CBS and NBC, the two challenged networks demur. ABC, they note, is nowhere near parity in daytime, although the improvement is admittedly impressive. For one thing, they contend, ABC does not program during the same hours as do NBC and CBS, and ABC carries one hour less than the other two networks in the daytime period. Moreover, they claim the hours that ABC does not program are those with least audience potential. (CBS and NBC start the schedule - excluding Today on NBC and Captain Kangaroo on CBS-at 10 a.m., take a hiatus for a half -hour at 1 p.m., return at 1:30 and program through to 4:30 p.m. ABC starts at 11:30 a.m., does not pause at 1 p.m. but continues through to 4:30.) ABC counters that not only are daytime clearances holding this season, they are actually showing improvement. In numbers, ABC is clearing an average 153 stations live (88.2% coverage) and an average 26 outlets delayed basis (4.4% coverage) for a total 179 stations representing a 92.6% coverage. Last season, clearances were 149 stations live (87.7% coverage), 27 on delays (4.4% ) for a total 176 stations representing a 92.1% coverage. NBC authorities state flatly that their network is in its "strongest daytime position in 10 years -since late 1961." They note how the margin has narrowed between NBC and CBS since last fall; assert NBC has invested money and time in daytime serials, while CBS's "are wearing thin" (the researchers at NBC point to a general lowering of share levels of CBS drama serials in 1971 vs. 1970). ABC's assessment agrees, and also emphasizes the drop in appeal of CBS's soaps, intimating a possible loss in "quality control." CBS, while not denying the declines in its soaps, refuses to accept the implication that the drama serial may be curtailed. (CBS has eight soaps compared with NBC's five and ABC's three). Four of CBS's shows are Procter & Gamble vehicles: As the World Turns, Search for Tomorrow, Guiding Light and Edge of Night. CBS authorities say you can be sure P &G as well as CBS programers are working on plans to strengthen their respective properties. CBS officials contend the drama serial not only is still well up in share (although off from prior years) at the network but continues as the most "flexible" among daytime entries. If a game show starts to plummet, they say, there's not much that can be done to "change" the format. With soaps, a fall -off in viewer interest can be countered by extensive changes in storyline and /or characters; a role can be written in or out of a script almost at will. CBS cites just such a turnaround accomplished with Love is a Many  Splendored Thing. Fred Silverman, then in charge of daytime programing at CBS (and now in charge of the whole ball game), effected a series of changes until "only the title and the music were recognizable." The surgery worked. For years, CBS has been conscious of the adage that change for the sake of change, when the network is on top, entails needless risk. But the numbers have changed now and CBS must contend with the altered picture. "Everybody is ashamed of daytime," one CBS executive admits. Changes will be made. The first quick snip comes Dec. 20 when My Three Sons replaces The Beverly Hillbillies in the 10:30 -11 a.m. period. Hillbillies is one of three shows rated lowest on the CBS daytime schedule -the others are the seemingly tireless Lucy and Gomer Pyle (the latter, at least, considered by CBS officials as a candidate for cancellation.) Snips two, three and onward may be expected to follow in rapid succession.
    • That's me - in a nutshell. But, it's because BTG is so damn good! I also wondered who was watching soccer during the day, mid-week, or even watching soccer at all. However, I know SOOOO many people that never followed soaps that were downright shocked that a new soap premiered in 2025. Why? Because they didn't know that people still watch TV during the day, mid-week, or still watched soaps at all. Many also didn't realize that soaps streamed, too. So, I feel foolish, but I guess I don't have all the answers with regard to the programming of major TV networks. I'm glad they have people that focus on these things, because that is how we got BTG in the first place.
    • Kelly looks so good in today’s episode (taped mid-March). I’ve always maintained Kelly looks fab in blue, and when they keep her hair straight like this. When they curl her hair, I feel it doesn’t suit her beautiful face.   

      Please register in order to view this content

    • Thank you @BoldKara. I hadn’t realised it’s only a few months away with the current YouTube uploads. I’m happy to wait until then - hopefully they won’t skip the episode this time around. 
    • Am I the only one welcoming the preemptions because I've been mad busy and have to catch up on over a week of episodes? Just saying.
    • Deniece Williams song "Blind Dating" from the album "Let's Hear it for the Boy". Blind Dating is co-written by Michele Val Jean.

      Please register in order to view this content

        disc image:

      Please register in order to view this content

    • No. Agnes Nixon had worked on a number of shows before creating OLTL (and AMC, which she had in her drawer waiting to come to life). AW was only one of them. Many classic soaps have personnel coming across back and forth all over the map, it's not a unique situation. And to my knowledge very few of the head creative teams at AW came to OLTL. If you're thinking of Harding Lemay, he did only a very brief consulting stint in '98 and maybe '99, and clearly had little actual impact on the writing. Paul Rauch was also a different EP at AW than he was at OLTL, GL, Santa Barbara, Y&R, etc. Nor do I recall him bringing many writers with him. Nor did his work at those shows resemble his time with Lemay at AW AFAIC. Frankly '70s Rauch and '80s Rauch seem like night and day. Beyond Rauch, the only two examples of key AW additions I know of would be first when George Reinholt and Jacquie Courtney jumped from AW to OLTL in the '70s. They were debatably the first daytime supercouple (some might cite Penny and Jeff from ATWT), and the show attempted to recreate that with new characters at OLTL to garner ratings. This was not unique to these shows; many soaps attempted the same trick after them. It might've worked but Reinholt's behavior once again drove him to quit and/or be fired. Robin Strasser was hired several years later as Dorian, but not opposite them in any triangle. Reinholt was long gone. JFP would be the other example and the only one who actively tried to model it after AW, bringing over several of her favorite actors from AW and several other shows she'd worked on in 1998-99. She was accused of trying to remake her AW at OLTL, but it was a poor fit because of their being very different. (She tried the same at GH.) I don't think OLTL was ever seen as 'just Another World' even remotely. It simply occasionally had AW stars coming aboard. And in the late '90s, they didn't fit. Jacquie Courtney and George Reinholt's characters fit in much easier, but Reinholt's in particular didn't last and Courtney's became quite different. OLTL and AW were dramatically different shows IMO, which is why JFP forcing actors from it onto the show didn't work or last.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy