Guiding Light Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

She did have high praise for Jerry.

'General Hospital's Jane Elliot Dishes on Her Awesome 50-Year Run in Soaps

Then there’s Carrie Todd on Guiding Light, which a lot of us old-timers feel was your absolute best work.
And I agree. The most was asked of me when I was doing that role.

Because she was a split personality?
Because there were so many words on the page! [Head writer] Doug Marland used to say that I ended up only saying half his dialogue and he didn’t care. I just cut and cut and cut. He loved words so much and he was so good with them, but oftentimes he didn’t leave you enough time to act, so I had to trim. One day, I performed for 70 pages, with my character both in the present and in flashbacks and she also narrated the flashbacks, and part of it was in the rain and freezing cold. I could not have done it without Jerry verDorn [Ross]. He is one of my all-time favorite acting partners, and the most generous actor I have ever worked with. He is a marvel of selflessness, a man with a wonderful work ethic who is absolutely content to support you in every way. I felt so safe with him. Those were very great times for Guiding Light. Oh, my God, Lisa Brown! The character of Nola! Divine, divine, divine.

[P.J.]

See...in my head the logical story conclusion for Carrie/Ross/Vanessa was Carrie's therapy failing to merge the personalities, and Ross gravitating back to Vanessa when he agrees to help her search for her half-brother.

And while I would've adored a true Vanessa/Ross romance....Vanessa and Billy were lightening in a bottle.

that's at least comforting to know. 

[Contessa Donatella]

Jane was known for being somewhat press-averse. 

Absent someone complaining about her as a co-worker I guess I don't see the point in sheer speculation.

Thanks for that detail, Robb. 

[Contessa Donatella]

From I’m Just Sayin’! Three Deaths, Seven Husbands, and a Clone! My Life on Guiding Light and Beyond:

“One unforgettable fight [between Kim Zimmer and Pam Long] happened in a NY restaurant. Joe Willmore, our EP at the time, Pam and I were having dinner so we could discuss the direction they were going in with Reva. …an argument escalated between Pam and me to such a boiling point that Joe excused himself from the table, went outside, and threw up!”

[P.J.]

yep. Carrie #1 was the Carrie we knew, Carrie #2 was the murderous slut, and Carrie #3 was the original Carrie who cracked after the suicide of her husband (or lover) and giving up her child for adoption.

[Franko]

We've probably talked about this before, but would Pamela K. Long and subsequent writers have had use for Kelly/JWS if he hung around?

[DRW50]

I doubt it. They didn't seem to have a great deal of interest in most of the male characters they inherited. They probably would have continued the relationship with Claire, and she seems like a black hole.

[chrisml]

Didn't I read that censors kept refusing to allow Kelly to have sex with any of the characters? When they relented, the couplings had to be very chaste. I remember reading that soaps changed and then they were demanding very strong kissing scenes/sex scenes from all other characters. AIDS changed that and they went back to more chaste sex scenes. I wish I could find that info.

 

[Paul Raven]

Some comments on the Marland interview. His comments in bold.

He seemed to go full bore pushing Kelly, Nola and the 'young' group. Not a mention of other characters apart from his beloved Carrie.That sort of fitted in what happened onscreen as one by one most of the Dobson characters either left (Holly, Rita, Lucille, Elizabeth) or were sidelined. 

Fair enough I suppose as he admitted a preference for his own characters and maybe the mandate was to push the youth aspect.

 “Now wait a minute. When you started watching Guiding Light, how old were you? How old was Ed Bauer? How old was Mike? They were the same age as the people you are now complaining about.

I think one difference is that Mike and Ed were part of the core family whereas Kelly and Morgan were not really connected (retcon of Kelly being Ed's godson notwithstanding)

Now had Kelly been Billy Fletcher and Peggy brought back for appearances older viewers might have been more interested/invested.

I don't think the divorce rates on soaps are out of sync with society today.

Every character on GL (bar Bert) had been divorced-some more than once, so not representative of society in general unless the divorce rate was 100%

Perhaps that I didn't fight harder with the network's decision to drop some of the older characters. If that decision hadn't been handed down to me, I would have worked harder to find them something to do.

The trouble was Adam, Barbara and Steve had no links to the current canvas. All their children were gone. And those vets would have been expensive. Maybe if they had been offered and accepted recurring, they could have stayed.

Yes I do, in fact. I created the first black characters on GH. I'm going to bring a minority family onto Guiding Light some time soon. I'm working on a storyline now.

Doug did not introduce the first black characters on GH. That was back in the 60's. I guess he may have meant in recent times. He'd been at GL for two and a half years and no black characters. There had been plenty of time to get something happening.Once he left Clay Tynan and his mother were brought on.

I've approved every new character who has come onto the show, even if other people didn't want him in the role.

I think the reverse occurred when Kristen Vigard was fired. They went with a pretty California blonde. I can't imagine he was in favor of Jennifer Cooke, same when Carrie Mowery was cast as Jackie. Allen Potter even admitted Cooke was lacking but she had the right look.

 As far as Elizabeth Taylor is concerned, I think that to bring her on as anybody but Elizabeth Taylor is wrong. (Miss Taylor had appeared as Helena Cassadine on GH) People believe soap actors are real not actors. Suddenly there's Elizabeth Taylor on the show playing someone else. I really think it explodes the 5 day a week reality and the believability of the show.

Mmmm I wonder if ET had wanted to appear on GL he would say that. Her appearance as Helena was part of a big event and it was a limited thing. I think most people were interested to see her as a soap character. As for believing  soap actors are real, then having Geraldine Court for example turn up wouldn't viewers be like "Why is Ann from The Doctors here ?or Tracy Quartermaine? That argument doesn't hold.

[DRW50]

This is very well said. 

@Paul Raven I was never sure if Marland had introduced the Tynans. Thanks. 

I get what he was saying about how you can't believe a big star as anyone but themselves, but Liz Taylor's GH cameo was one of the exceptions to the rule - she was a great choice for all the passion, camp and melodrama of the Cassadines. 

[Mitch64]

Yes..Taylor was the logical end of the over hyped, campy Luke and Laura saga...didnt she curse them both (leading to Frances exit?) It was all in fun for a short time.  Joan Collins was along the same lines and I bought her as Alex. And didn't Helena become a long running villain on GH by another actress?

[Contessa Donatella]

Constance Powers? Is that the name I am reaching for? The real Helena Cassadine to my way of thinking. Also previously on CAPITOL, I think.

About Liz Taylor, as Helena, in the OG L&L wedding in 1981, I really believe that at least the adult population enjoying the wedding in their minds it would have been that look, there's Liz Taylor in a  cameo role, NOT, Hey, it's that evil bitch Ellen Cassadine. You know?

And, yes, she did utter a curse.

Now, to me, when Joan Collins took on the temp role of Alexandra on GL, it was totally different. There, and then, she was an actress playing a part. And, while I'm at it, John Conboy screwed us (the fans) out of 3 months of her.

 

Edited April 19 by Contessa Donatella

[P.J.]

Constance Towers. And yes, Capitol. I think the difference here is that Constance had been in movies, but had done plenty of television through the years. Everyone and their mother knew who Elizabeth Taylor was.

@Paul Raven  I've been meaning to ask...does anyone remember Clay Tynan? Somewhere I read a whole (erroneous, it seems) history about how he'd been a friend of Vanessa's and somehow been around when she was dating Mark Evans. (I can guess where this was, but I can't seem to find it again...) Anyway, I've only been able to find Giancarlo Esposito credited in a 1983 episode, and  his mother seems to pop up around the time Lillian does. There's something about her character being promoted and Lillian, Hillary and Lesley Ann being in consideration for lead nurse on the floor. 

I thought maybe they'd also been characters in The Cradle Will Fall, and like Ben Murphy, only made guest appearances. But that doesn't seem to be the case.  

Edited April 19 by P.J.

[Contessa Donatella]

Thanks!! Towers, got it. And, Liz, oh yeah. 

One interesting thing about Kim Zimmer not only not being Pam Long's first choice, but not being a choice AT ALL. Near the end of some Locher Room Zoom chat Kim tossed it out that she bet no one knew who Pam Long's first choice for Reva had been.

Well, as you can imagine, we were all flabbergasted, thinking that Kim had definitely been the one & only choice by anyone for Reva. Right after, I messaged with Jill Lorie Hurst & she was just as blown away as I was. In the following days I set myself the task of figuring out who in the hell this was. I think it took me a week before I felt I had nailed it - and I had. So, on top of it was the fact that it was a tale she told on herself.

 

[DeeVee]

I can't imagine Jerry saying anything blatantly negative about any of the actors he worked with, but he certainly seemed to have a problem with the storyline. In The Locher Room he made quasi-joking comments about how Ross was the stupid husband during that story.

Now I have to read the book! Sounds like there's lots of tea in it.

I don't recall that about Kelly but you're not wrong that soaps changed. There was talk during the mid-late 1970s that soaps were going to become more explicit, that they might even feature nudity eventually. I wish I could remember what magazine it was that had an article not only saying this, but giving examples from existing soaps how scenes would be changed to become more explicit. This was before cable existed in most homes.

The show that was supposed to be the vanguard was called How to Survive a Marriage, which tackled a lot of social issues and was more open about sexual matters. It was a flop, so that might be one reason soaps pulled back on these issues by the 1980s.

I think the difference is pretty obvious when you look at the 1979 episodes of GL. Not only in the incredibly realistic and mature way they handled the Roger/Holly rape storyline. There was a whole storyline about how Rita wasn't able to have an orgasm during sex with Ed. (Not because he was a dud in the bedroom, but because of all the stress in their marriage). They never used the "O" word (much like the Seinfeld "Master of Your Domain" episode never used the "M" word) but you knew exactly what they were talking about. I can't even begin to imagine a story like that happening during the 80s, and not just during Marland's tenure.

There are probably multiple reasons for this change. The country becoming more conservative, yes, possibly the AIDS the crisis. Also perhaps how everyone was chasing GH's ratings. Even a show that started out very focused on personal and sexual matters like Ryan's Hope was ditching that for mob stories and the like by the 80s.

Edited April 19 by DeeVee