GL now joins some illustrious company in the cancelled soap thread.

Let's share memories and ask questions here.

6 hours ago, P.J. said:

Oh, to have Maureen for the Peter saga....

Have you found a good playlist of '82 episodes in English? I've been stitching the year together from clips and random episodes mostly. The German episodes are good to fill in, but the translations are awkward at best. I found an episode in German of Carrie going off on Vanessa, and whatever Carrie says scares the bejesus out of her.

Nope I'm only watching in German. 

If you can find anything 1982 to 1991 in English... please share.

re maureen and roger: i always thought that rather than driving off the road and dying, had maureen gone to a lawyer and begun divorce proceedings against ed, things could have gotten very interesting between the two of them. not a romantic relationship — though they could have teased that — but their friendship would have deepened. ed would have fallen off the wagon into a bottle of scotch, and maureen and roger aside, dealing with michelle and that fact that maureen wasn’t her biological stories.

jill farren phelps squandered so much potential story by killing off maureen. but… since buzz cooper arrived in springfield less than a month after maureen died, i’ve always believed it was to free up enough money to bring justin deas on board. 

Edited April 19, 20241 yr by wonderwoman1951

I don't think it's interesting to have everyone in the town hate a villain if that villain is going to stick around. Maureen was definitely needed to humanise Roger. Roger and Maureen's friendship could also have come into play during the Ed/Lillian affair and created more story. When I watch the takedown of Roger scenes, it makes me angry how much potential was there for all of the characters and how JFP indeed squandered so much of that for the sake of easy/sweeps drama points. Leaving Maureen aside, Mindy became brain dead and desperate once JFP took over.  It's to Simms's credit that she made a lot of it work, but once Simms left, Mindy was never the same.

 

Over the decades, I have lamented many times about how crushing a blow the 1983-84 Massacre of TGL was, and how it seriously crippled the series. I don't need to regurgitate my personal complaints in extended detail...AGAIN, lol.

I will say, however, that it's gratifying to see other posters, who had been watching prior to the Gail Kobe/Pamela Long era, acknowledge how abrupt, extensive and damaging the massive structural changes were.

The show gutted its core family who had been essential since 1948, changed the style, focus and tone, and chopped off most of the soaps' memorable history. 

In exchange, we got saddled with the Shaynes, the Coppers, the Lewises, the Santos mob, the Winslow royals, and a seemingly endless revolving door of irrelevant and pointless newbies. 🤮

For me, 1982 was the last, great year of "The Guiding Light That Was."

2 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

Over the decades, I have lamented many times about how crushing a blow the 1983-84 Massacre of TGL was, and how it seriously crippled the series. I don't need to regurgitate my personal complaints in extended detail...AGAIN, lol.

I will say, however, that it's gratifying to see other posters, who had been watching prior to the Gail Kobe/Pamela Long era, acknowledge how abrupt, extensive and damaging the massive structural changes were.

The show gutted its core family who had been essential since 1948, changed the style, focus and tone, and chopped off most of the soaps' memorable history. 

In exchange, we got saddled with the Shaynes, the Coppers, the Lewises, the Santos mob, the Winslow royals, and a seemingly endless revolving door of irrelevant and pointless newbies. 🤮

For me, 1982 was the last, great year of "The Guiding Light That Was."

When I got into GL around 1990 or so I didn't even notice as much that there was such a lack of a core family compared to other soaps (like ATWT) because there were several dynamic characters or actors who helped keep the canvas vibrant. Unfortunately, when most of those actors filed out in the early '90s, it did expose how hollow the show's core was, especially Maureen's death, as Alex and Mindy had been so poorly written by the time Beverlee and Kimberley left that they weren't at their strongest anyway. Maureen still felt more central. That JFP did this solely because she assumed viewers wouldn't care otherwise if Maureen died says a lot about how she approached soaps.

16 hours ago, Althea Davis said:

Nope I'm only watching in German. 

If you can find anything 1982 to 1991 in English... please share.

 

Of course these are all on youtube:

Tennbelle---has Josh and Reva (and Reva/Kyle) playlists from 1984 on

SentieriGuidingLight---Italian episodes (seem start summer of 86)

Jimmuneco--random episodes from 79-91

SoapsNthings---random episodes 79-84

quintnola---focuses on the Quint/Nola romance from 82-85

Leorubysun--episodes from 1980, 1981, 1984

classicGL---videos by storyline

blakemarler---playlists from 89-07

11 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

When I got into GL around 1990 or so I didn't even notice as much that there was such a lack of a core family compared to other soaps (like ATWT) because there were several dynamic characters or actors who helped keep the canvas vibrant. Unfortunately, when most of those actors filed out in the early '90s, it did expose how hollow the show's core was, especially Maureen's death, as Alex and Mindy had been so poorly written by the time Beverlee and Kimberley left that they weren't at their strongest anyway. Maureen still felt more central. That JFP did this solely because she assumed viewers wouldn't care otherwise if Maureen died says a lot about how she approached soaps.

If you joined TGL in 1990, then you were lucky to come in at a time after the worst of the destruction had already taken place. I honestly don't know how anyone survived watching the mid 1980s. The show rebounded more than I ever thought possible under Nancy Curlee's writing regime, and through some miracle, many in the audience had come to accept Maureen Bauer as the warm, benevolent matriarch the show desperately  needed. As a bonus, Reva was off-screen for years, so we didn't have to endure over-the-top, ham-in-a-can histrionics. The cast at the time was strong.

The resurgence did not last long, alas, and a few years later the quality of the writing was gone, some of the best actors were gone, TIIC killed off Maureen, dismembering the Bauers yet again, and show went back to circling the drain. Only this time, it never recovered, and limped along on life-support until finally being put out of its misery.

It should have been laid to rest before Peapack, honestly.

36 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

It should have been laid to rest before Peapack, honestly.

I remember cancelation rumors around early 1995 AND fall 1996. I'm glad the show didn't end then (especially fall 1996, which was just a miserable time for the show), even if it probably would have been fitting, but they were extremely lucky. I know those last decades the show was kept on just through malaise and blind luck, but that sheer force of will always makes me wonder what might have been if they'd ever had a sustained period of quality in those years...and why a part of me will always wish the show could somehow be revived.

Looking back, isn't wild that 60 Minutes did a story on the end of Guiding Light in 2009?  It's not like 60 Minutes does a lot of CBS cross promotion.  I mean, I don't think they ever did an interview with the cast of The Jeffersons. 😉  Also, a quick check reveals that they never interviewed Larry Hagman, arguably one of the biggest CBS stars ever.  CBS had other promotional opportunities, such as their morning show and other news magazines.  And I know there were also stories in the New York Times, and mainstream entertainment media.  But, it is just unfathomable that one of the traditionally highest rated shows on the network did a story centered on the idea that a soap opera was cancelled. 

Even composing this note, I imagine there will be someone who will try to argue that it was not that wild.  But, you'll never convince me otherwise.  Because that was objectively wild.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKyYmdz_PsQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGB1Tg5U7zM

 

Edited April 20, 20241 yr by j swift

10 hours ago, P.J. said:

 

Of course these are all on youtube:

Tennbelle---has Josh and Reva (and Reva/Kyle) playlists from 1984 on

SentieriGuidingLight---Italian episodes (seem start summer of 86)

Jimmuneco--random episodes from 79-91

SoapsNthings---random episodes 79-84

quintnola---focuses on the Quint/Nola romance from 82-85

Leorubysun--episodes from 1980, 1981, 1984

classicGL---videos by storyline

blakemarler---playlists from 89-07

Wow, wow, wow. THANK YOU SO SO MUCH. I will be diving into this later today. AMAZING.

Some episodes written by Theodore & Mathilde Ferro dealing with Robin's death.

#5175 – Friday, September 29th 1967

At the lodge, an hysterical Robin confronted Paul and Sara. She said she would go back to the cabin alone. Paul tried to calm her but she didn’t want his help, she said he could stay with Sara. After Robin left, Sara felt sorry for Paul. She was really hoping Robin would improve. Paul and Robin had met Dr. Walter Sanders earlier that day and he talked about his neurotic wife he had divorced from. It made Robin very uncomfortable. Sanders had insisted on how Paul and Sara met in Chicago years ago and spent time together. Paul admitted to Sara he never forgot that he proposed to her years ago. Sara told Paul she turned him off because she knew Paul was alone and didn’t really love her. Paul admitted he should have been more honest to Robin when Sara joined staff at Cedars and she became suspicious.

Paul and Sara didn’t notice Robin was listening to them. Paul asked Sara if she was in love with him at the time. She admitted she was very fond of him. Sara advised Paul to bring Robin to Dr. Lindsey and she left.

When she arrived in her cabin, Sara was shocked to find Robin seated, waiting for her. Robin told her she had listened to her conversation with Paul. She was not crazy, there used to be something between Paul and Sara in Chicago. She heard Paul had proposed to Sara.

#5176 – Monday, October 2nd 1967

Robin said she should have listened to her mother Kathy and never gave all her heart. She knew that Paul proposed to Sara years ago in Chicago. Sara assured Robin there was no love, Paul was lonely and had found in Sara someone to talk to. Robin said Paul would like her to be crazy but she was not. She was sure Sara came to Cedars to see Paul again. Sara couldn’t deny she remembered Paul when she came to Cedars as a very good friend and a teacher. She was glad he had married again since Anne’s death and seemed happy. Robin countered they stopped being happy when she lost her baby. She asked why Paul lied to her about his past feelings for Sara then. Robin told Sara she was letting Paul go. It might be a new beginning for them. She slammed the door and left.

Sara hurried to the lodge to see Paul. She told him Robin was on the terrace when she heard them talk. She had confronted Sara and told her she would divorce Paul. Sara was worried about something Robin said – « there are many ways to give Paul freedom. Divorce is only one of them. ». Paul began searching for Robin but she was nowhere to be found.

#5177 – Tuesday, October 3rd 1967

Paul told Sara that Robin was not in the cabin and that clothes were missing. Paul was very worried as he hadn’t noticed how sick Robin was. They realized she had probably left and they had to find her. They asked the clerk if he had seen Robin or if she had called for a taxi but he assured them it was not possible at the time of the night as they were out in the country. The clerk checked and Robin hadn’t taken Paul or Sara’s car to leave the mountains.

Paul told Sara that Robin might be trying to worry her. She did that once when she went to the Bauers in the middle of the night. Sara was sure Paul would get help for Robin once they were back home but Paul wasn’t so sure. Sara realized Robin could still be there and hiding, only to frighten Paul.

Back in the Fletchers’ cabin, Paul looked for Robin again to no avail. He couldn’t understand why Robin was trying to punish him. They had hard times when Johnny couldn’t accept their relationships, when she lost the baby but Paul was always there for her. Paul found a note. Robin had written : « Goodbye Paul ».

#5178 – Wednesday, October 4th 1967

Paul and Sara wondered why the note could mean. Paul felt guilty for not reaching to Robin earlier. The only option they saw was that Robin was walking towards the train station, ten miles away from the cabin. They decided to go by car and look for her.

In the car, Paul and Sara were stopped by a police officer because there had been a car accident. When the officer noticed Paul’s M.D. on his license plate, he told him there would be need of a doctor.

When Paul and Sara arrived on the site of the accident, they recognized Robin. She was the one who was run over by a car. Paul tried to call for Robin but she wasn’t responsive. Sara and Paul noticed she was probably suffering from a skull fracture. The car’s driver was very agitated. He said he didn’t understand what happened. He saw Robin with a suitcase near the road. He didn’t know if she was trying to thumb a ride of if she threw herself voluntarily in front of the car. Paul was shattered. The ambulance finally arrived but Paul knew there was no time left.

#5179 – Thursday, October 5th 1967

Late at night, Bert, Bill and Papa were back from Ed and Leslie’s wedding. They had coffee and tea talking about the day. Bert was touched Dr. Jackson seemed moved their families were tied. She was worried about Robin though.

In Leslie’s apartement, Ed carried her across the threshold. Leslie was touched the room was full of flowers Ed had bought for her. Ed admitted it was Bert, Bill and Papa who thought of the flowers. They noticed the Bauers also filled in the fridge for the newlyweds.

After eating, Leslie told Ed she felt grateful being loved by the Bauers. Ed assured their past mistakes were all behind. The phone rang. Ed answered. It was Paul. After he hung up, Ed told Leslie that Robin had been run over by a car and suffered a skull fracture. Ed was wanted for surgery. Leslie totally understood and gave him his coat.

#5180 – Friday, October 6th 1967

At the nurses’ station, Paul told Sara that Robin’s state was still the same. He was waiting for Ed to operate. Paul felt guilty. He thought he did everything he could to help Robin. He kept thinking about what the car’s driver told them about Robin maybe jumping voluntarily in front of the car. Ed finally arrived.

Dr. Canfield, member of the local hospital, greeted Ed. The doctors thought she wouldn’t survive the surgery and Sara suggested they could stop the internal bleeding with no surgery but Dr. Canfiled assured they couldn’t wait. Either they stopped the bleeing but she might not survive surgery or they didn’t and she would probably would die of internal bleeding. Ed asked Paul if he wanted them to make the decision but Paul assured he had to. Paul chose for her to have the surgery.

A neurosurgeon joined Ed. Paul told Sara that Robin had been suicidal when she lost her baby but he could help her go through. He said he wanted to help her again. Ed arrived. He gently told Paul that Robin didn’t survive. Paul put his head in his hands.

 

@FrenchFan thank you so much for continuing to share these gems.

The Paul/Sara engagement from the 50's was a retcon by the Ferro's I think. Pretty sure Paul was established as a loner who never had time for women when he was introduced. That changed when he met Anne.

3 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

@FrenchFan thank you so much for continuing to share these gems.

The Paul/Sara engagement from the 50's was a retcon by the Ferro's I think. Pretty sure Paul was established as a loner who never had time for women when he was introduced. That changed when he met Anne.

You are correct.

@j swift It definitely had a sense of tradition respecting tradition. The end of GL felt like the death knell for daytime - not because GL had been a big hitter in recent decades, but just the opposite. The show finally going was the blood in the water. DAYS was seen as likely to go soon, we knew it was just a matter of time for the ABC lineup, and ATWT was already canceled by this point (or all but canceled). I'm surprised Les Moonves even allowed it. Sad to say 60 Minutes cared more than the [!@#$%^&*] Daytime Emmys that year. 

@FrenchFan Thanks for the synopses for Robin's last days. I had never known if viewers actually saw her throwing herself into traffic or not. It's all so bleak. I'm surprised they had her mention her mother Kathy, but it's very fitting - Kathy too was so plagued by mental problems, and Robin's death closed the circle. I don't know if Irna had any ties to GL by this point but I'm sure she was proud. 

Ed's involvement feels ominous as some of the details (the cabin, the adultery, death by car) remind me of Maureen's death. There are also some hints of instability in Maureen's last days. I'm just glad they didn't try to suggest she killed herself.

I wonder how viewers felt about any of this, or about Robin in general. She sounds so exhausting. I wonder if Gillian Spencer parlayed any of this into Viki.

I find this era of Guiding Light totally fascinating. Here a few more episodes from late 1967. Sorry they are not all consecutive. I had no idea they had brought Meta but her talk with Paul about Robin's death is fascinating !

#5185 – Friday, October 13th 1967

At the Hayes’, Jane picked up letters and told Peggy she had a letter from Cedars. Peggy anxiously read that she was asked for an interview and imagined she might have passed. Jane was sure Peggy would be a terrific nurse even if she would miss her at home. Peggy thanked Jane for her help. Jane told her that George was at the airport to pick up Johnny. Peggy felt guilty Johnny had left town previously. She knew he was coming for Robin’s funeral but hoped it could be a new start.

At the airport, George greeted Johnny. He was shocked by Robin’s death. It all seemed very sudden. George confirmed what Ed told Johnny by phone – Robin was walking on a dark road and she was hit by a car. Johnny remembered when Paul was a widower for the first time. Johnny wondered why he and his father couldn’t seem to understand each other.

George had left Johnny at Paul’s. Paul was happy to his son back home. Johnny said he wished he had told his father and Robin nicer things back in the day. He added that Paul supported him but then Paul could lean on his son.

#5195 – Friday, October 27th 1967

At Cedars’, Paul was surprised to hear Martha on the phone telling that Sara was going to attend a medical meeting in St. Louis. Paul met with Sara and told her he thought it was a good idea for her to attend this meeting. It would be a much needed vacation for her. He was worried that Sara might go with memories of what Robin told her before dying. Paul assured Sara that Robin was mentally ill and that Sara shouldn’t feel guilty for her death. After Sara left Paul, Martha told Sara it was sad Paul couldn’t go with her as he would need a break.

Dr. Jackson asked Sara to talk with her for a few minutes in his office. Sara told Dr. Jackson she was happy to leave for the medical meeting for a few days. She needed to release the pressure and assured Dr. Jackson she only confided into him that she was in love with Paul. Sara felt bad Robin found out what she was really feeling for Paul despite her denying. She couldn’t help but feel guilty. Dr. Jackson could listen to her but he couldn’t do much more to help Sara.

#5235 – Monday, December 25th 1967

Leslie woke up Ed in bed on Christmas morning and brought him coffee. She was disappointed Ed had to go to the hospital on Christmas day but Ed assured her they would have a perfect Christmas dinner. Ed felt that surgery was a burden for Leslie who worried about the time Ed would spend at the hospital.

At Sara’s, Tracy was very anxious to open the Christmas presents but Sara thought they should wait for Paul and Johnny. Tracy asked how Johnny was but Sara said she barely knew him. Tracy said she heard about him from Peggy whom Johnny used to have a thing with. Sara greeted Paul and Johnny. Paul told Sara he had a very exciting present from Johnny – his son had decided to become a doctor. As Paul made a toast to old friends, Tracy flirtly made one to new friends while looking at Johnny, who clearly caught her eye. Tracy asked Johnny for a walk and Sara and Paul complied.

At the Bauers’, Papa and Bill were on the phone with Hope and Mike wishing them a Merry Christmas. Bill wasn’t happy Ed and Leslie wouldn’t be there for Christmas but Bert told him that was their little Christmas and they wanted to be alone but they would come and say hello. The doorbell rang. Papa was shocked to see Meta, who decided last minute to visit her father.

#5236 – Tuesday, December 26th 1967

In his office, Paul told Stephen Jackson he was wrong to drag this into Joe Werner and Ed Bauer’s bickering even if he understood Jackson was in a bad position as Joe was his protegee and Ed his son-in-law. Paul told Stephen that he wouldn’t bring Ed before the committee for censure. It was only a matter of intern discipline for Stephen to deal with. Paul only wanted Ed and Joe to understand their personal difference had to stay out of the hospital and Stephen had to tell them.

Dr. Jackson reunited both Joe and Ed in his office. He told Ed he wouldn’t be brought before the committee as a decision of Dr. Fletcher but Joe and Ed had to stop acting like fighting kids. Joe admitted it might have been a misunderstanding the night Ed was supposed to be on call. Both Joe and Ed agreed to forget about this.

Meta visited Paul in his office. She said Bruce couldn’t join her but she wanted to see the Bauers for Christmas. She told Paul she had some medical issues which kept her from attending Robin’s funeral. Meta didn’t want Paul to feel guilty. She remembered when she married Joe Roberts, his daughter Kathy messed up her life until she met Mark Holden. And Meta blamed herself for Kathy’s unhappiness and for Robin’s – Kathy’s daughter – too. But she didn’t anymore : she knew Robin was born in tragedy, lived in tragedy and died in tragedy. Meta was sure that Robin never got over her mother’s tragic death. It was ironic a car took Robin’s life too. Paul hoped it was really the car. Meta asked him if he suggested Robin killed herself. Paul said he hoped he was wrong and told Meta he would like her to meet someone.

#5237 – Wednesday, December 27th 1967

In the morning at the Bauers’, Bert couldn’t understand what happened with Ed not being brought before the committee for censure. Bill told Bert he felt she was too much involved with working at Cedars. She had taken this job when he lost his but as he had a new job, Bill saw no reason for Bert to keep working. Bert didn’t understand this sudden change of heart. She said she had already thought of stop working when Mike and Hope came back to town but Bill insisted he wanted Bert to be a full-time housewife like she used to be.

Later, Leslie arrived to help Bert plan dinner as she would come with Ed. Bert was pleasantly surprised as how Leslie could manage her new life as a married woman after the luxury she knew as a youngster. Bert assured Leslie that the the first blessings of marriage would end someday. Leslie felt Bert was not feeling too well and added she’d like to consider Bert as her mother, as hers died when she was young.

In the living room, Ed and Leslie waited for Bert and Bill who were in the kitchen while Papa had left to fetch Meta, who had insisted to stay in a hotel. Leslie was proud to tell Ed she got closer to Bert that afternoon. She added Bert would stop working at the hospital which raised Ed’s suspicions. When Bill and Bert entered, Ed told Bill that Bert should have decided by herself if she wanted to keep working or not. Bert got angry and told Ed to mind his own business.

#5238 – Thursday, December 28th 1967

Back at their apartment, Leslie asked Ed why he had to get into an argument with his father. She wondered how much Ed still resented his father. Ed told his wife that her father is a big man while Bill was only a little one. He wouldn’t tell her how many failures Bill had in his life. Ed admitted he was afraid to take a drink because he could become like his father.

The following morning at Cedars, Sara was in Paul’s office. She told him that she would stop working with Dr. Jordan in February as the grant should be given to a neurologist and her speciality was internal medicine. She was thinking of going back to Chicago. Paul told Sara he had the idea of offering contracts to keep the best residents at Cedars. She agreed to think about the option.

At her home after dinner, Sara told Tracy she was thinking of going back to Chicago in February and of course would like Tracy to come with her. Sara admitted research was fascinating for a while but she missed working with patients. Tracy asked her why she couldn’t practise medicine here. Sara admitted she could, she had an offer. Tracy told her aunt she noticed she was very fond of Dr. Fletcher.

#5239 – Friday, December 29th 1967

At the Bauers’, as they waited for Bert to come back from Meta’s hotel, Papa noticed Bill seemed moody. Bill admitted he was thinking of his fight with Ed. He told Papa that everytime he got closer to his son, he felt like Ed was drifting away. Ed was full of anger. Bill was afraid Ed would end up destroying himself because of this anger.

Bert was having coffee in Meta’s room after sharing dinner with her sister-in-law. Meta admitted to Bert that she felt Ed was not well, always angry but Bert assured her son was very fine. Meta thought that Leslie was a very nice young girl and marriage with her might help Ed turn off his rebel side. Meta reminded Bert of how ambitious she used to be with Bill and maybe she transfered her ambition towards Ed. Bert turned the conversation to Meta who admitted she had been ill but didn’t want to worry the family. That’s why she came for Christmas, she had to see Paul and explain why she missed Robin’s funeral.

At the Fletchers’, Paul asked Johnny if he had thought about areas of medicine he might be interested in and Johnny talked about psychology. When Paul talked about how excited he was about the new project for Cedars, Johnny asked why Paul didn’t accept to become Medical Director years ago. If Paul had closed his private clinic sooner, Anne wouldn’t be dead. Johnny couldn’t understand why he took this decision too late.