Y&R: Fire Maria Arena Bell, Hogan Sheffer, Scott Hamner, and Paul Rauch

[Faulkner]

You are uncommonly wise and a gift to this board.

[DRW50]

Y&R is definitely stuck between a rock and a hard place. I think Hogan is doing EXACTLY what he does everywhere he goes, but none of this is any type of a fit for Y&R (he would have been great at GH or Passions -- I can't think of another soap that would so effortlessly fit his views on women, rape, and alpha males). Yet the more low-key Y&R of MAB and Griffith drove away tons of viewers.

I know Y&R has always been a show which is given lots of TLC. When I started watching, the show's almost comical uniqueness - the lingering pauses, the way so many scenes would be shot through floral arrangements, the way an episode or a scene before commercial might end on a phone or doorbell ringing - made it compulsive. All that's gone now, of course, but the basic core of the show is still there.

They just need to find someone who loves soaps and knows how to write for or produce a soap. I know DAYS is not the second coming, but Gary Tomlin does know how to run a soap. I don't see that at Y&R. Rauch is stuck in another decade, and Hogan Sheffer hates soaps.

Going back to basics may be just what they need.

I also think that phasing out the Newmans and perhaps bringing in a few Brooks or Fosters might help, they could just bring in one or two, and use them to introduce a new generation. This would also involve writing for Jill, so that would also mandate regime change.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Completely agreed!

Some changes better be made fast, because Y&R is really feeling like a dead soap these days, regardless of daytime dying out, Y&R feels like a soap on its last legs with all the stunts and plots done purely for shock value with this current inane writing regime.

[Vee]

I don't believe Hogan hates soaps. And I don't necessarily think he's a misogynist. I think he's just got a real...I don't know, exploitation film mentality. Which is both good and bad. I think he'd have done well at AMC because frankly I think he's more soft-pedal than Pratt or McTavish when it comes to violence or sexual frenzy. Whereas Pratt just does things to do them. I think Hogan would have done well at OLTL as well, and I still think he could've been very good at DAYS in the right conditions.

It's possible that Y&R could have phased out the Newmans for another family like it did with the originals in the '80s but I think that time has passed. The genre is too weak, and too oriented towards certain "name" stars, many of whom play Newmans and Abbotts. Even with Bill Bell on-hand, I don't think Y&R would survive that kind of sweeping change at the end of the early '00s. I think trying that now would only hasten its demise. Or maybe it can survive as a kind of two-legged dog like DAYS has, I don't know. The question is, would people want to watch a Y&R that is sort of amputated like DAYS? Gary Tomlin may be keeping that show going but I personally do not consider it a model for anything - the show is a shell of itself, pushing forward not with interesting stories but by sheer force of will and IMO, fan apathy.

Okay, I'll consider this. If you're going to change the families, the time to do that is now and not in five minutes. The ratings are going to continue to decline no matter what - even OLTL was still in a 3-point range in 2004. And they will have to treat the characters who are going with respect. I still think it's a massive mistake to consider dumping everyone from Braeden to Scott to Morrow and so on, but whatever. The bottom line is you better have some really amazing people, new people and names, not names from the '80s but from right now, to replace them.

[DRW50]

I think Hogan would have been similar to Dena. He doesn't like vets, he tends to tell stories about pathetic women who live for men, he likes to shove badly conceived new characters at people, he doesn't know how to pace stories or give them a good ending. I guess the main difference is he would have a lot more camp, and she had Todd as a weepy mess, whereas Hogan would have had him raping all over the place.

I see what you're saying about DAYS, but is DAYS a shell because of Tomlin or because of the horrible Corday and the havoc he's wreaked for years, not to mention the chaos and character hackery which has been oncamera for years? They had no identity besides, "This is the show where JER once reigned" or "This is the show which has supercouples who were really big...10-15-20 years ago." They were in the position of being a show with supercouples and a pink slip. Not much else. So they got rid of the supercouples, focused on some of the talent which was being ignored, and their basic soap storytelling is coming through for them.

Y&R doesn't have to be in that position yet. They have made themselves that way because of the mistakes various people have made over the past 4-5 years. They can still find someone who can run a solid show. They can focus on the characters who can carry the show. They can ease out the dead wood, and also cut a lot of the pointless newbie casting and the bringing back people for no apparent reason other than some issue the showrunner has (like the Thom Bierdz return), and learn how to actually tell a story.

I know it's not easy, but it's not as difficult as these people are making it.

That's a good point. I don't think that dumping most of the Newmans and Abbotts now would be a problem. They're all pretty much used up anyway, and the younger generations of the families are played by crappy actors, or actors who don't fit the characters.

[SouthOfSoap]

Although that would be an absolute disaster for Y&R, I'd love to be a fly on the wall when SONY notify Hogan Sheffer. Schadenfreude indeed.

[bellcurve]

Why? At least Dena doesn't play up her sensational stories as "courageous" and "groundbreaking." Dena knows she's a shock and awe storyteller. Maria thinks she's Austen meets Faulkner.

Not that I am advocating for Higley to come to Y&R at all. That would be like trading Brett Farve for Howie Long.

[SouthOfSoap]

It would be an absolute disaster because the pacing would change from lightning speed to a grinding halt. Moreso than the actual stories, I think such a change would induce viewers to tune out at a rapid pace because not only would the stories still suck, they would be moving at a much slower pace than viewers are accustomed to, leading to greater frustration with the show.

[MarkH]

So, in reading all these threads and thinking through the weekend, a thought that has resonated with me (I think from the Spoiler threads...I'm sorry I am not referencing it, but I can't remember who said it) is that they continue to actively re-invent this show.

Think back to 2007, when LML was brought in. It was CLEAR that there was a desire to re-fashion this show. Younger/newbies, faster plots, removal of some classic style issues.

LML was "goddess" for CBS/Sony/Bell throughout much of 2006--yes, there were a lot of departures, but the ratings actually trended up. It was enough that she actually got handed the EP keys to supplement her HW keys.

We know it went to sh!t...but that was only after she lost most of her support staff. Yes, the ratings trended down a bit, but at least one poster here said LML was NOT fired for creative or ratings reasons...but because of horrible management (e.g., the show went dark a few times so scripts could catch up). Her abandonment of the EP role during the WGA strike was probably the straw that broke the camel's back.

MAB came on as a caretaker, and to protect the Bell interests. Because she did okay during the strike, and because there were some positive indications frrom fans/cast, I guess (per DaytimeFan) Sony agreed to give managing control back to the Bells, and the Bells opted to have MAB in the role.

At this point, so we're talking now about 2008, MAB was in repair mode. She was trying to fix misshapen and ill-begotten storylines, etc. During this repair period, as we know, the ratings trended down faster than ever before. Part of that was because so much effort was going into "repair" that the stories went nowhere.

Remember, at this time, that MAB fired virtually NONE of LML's writers. Over time most of them left...but we don't know if they were pushed or left of their own volition. We don't know if they were retained simply to play out their contracts, or because MAB wanted to give them a chance. We don't know if they left--in part--out of loyalty to LML.

I mention all this because two underlying issues NEVER WENT AWAY--some of us just convinced ourselves they did.

First, Sony/CBS (and maybe Bell) still wanted to CHANGE the show. The "reinvention" motive that brought LML to the show NEVER WENT AWAY!

Once MAB "repaired" things (at the cost of ratings), she brought HS onboard--and the plot/death/crime engine has been grinding away ever since.

MAB is defending all that has happened in the press, and all indications are that they're continuing to drive with plot-plot-plot from this point forward.

Translation: we're still in full "re-invention mode".

Anyone who wants even a SEMBLANCE of "classic Y&R" back is simply S.O.L.

The Bells SIGNED OFF on the "reinvention" vision that brought LML to the show. They continue to sign off on the reinvention, and MAB is interpreting her job as continuing to steer-the-ship of the reinvention, albeit with a bit more respect for classic Y&R.

MAB is willing to slowly get rid of veterans and classical style points...because like the rest of her management team...she still wants a slicker, faster, younger, cheaper Y&R.

[DRW50]

The problem is there's little which is slick about today's Y&R. The show is very erratic, very forced, you can hear the gears grinding. The attempts at youth storylines can often come across like Lawrence Welk playing Beatles music.

I'm not a fan of the woman, she destroyed several soaps I love(d), but JFP, she's a slick producer. You can see her imprint (or at least you could when she had power), you see fast pace, lots of style, lots of flash.

The basic flaw in Y&R now, in my opinion, even more than moving away from the old, is just plain incompetence.

If MAB wants slick or fast or edgy, then Rauch, Hamner, and Sheffer have to go.

[MarkH]

Regardless, the point is that I think some of us false assumed that MAB was trying to restore Y&R (more or less) to what it once was. I think this was furthered by her press interviews in which she claimed to basically be channelling Bill Bell.

What has come into clearer focus for me is that the forces (Sony/Bell/CBS) that sought to reinvent Y&R back in 2006-2007 are all still the SAME forces (right down to specific executives) who are STILL in control now. Nothing has changed. MAB (and her team, and Rauch) are still working toward the same re-invention now that LML started working toward in 2006. It helps me to remember that this is -- and was -- the continuous goal since they got rid of Jack Smith.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

At least Latham admitted the show she was writing wasn't Y&R. In every interview she would constantly talk about how she's changing something and how there was a new way of doing things.

MAB? Not so much. She tries to tell us that her style is on par with Bill Bell's and crap like he's watching over her shoulders ( ), but her and her writing team's style couldn't be anymore different and out of touch with the true essence of the show. It's a pretty manipulative move on her part.

There's ways to reinvent a show while keeping it in touch with its identity, and MAB and her team have failed at doing that.

Latham's reinvention is also a whole other type of reinvention from MAB and Company's. Neither is particularly compelling and both crashed and burned pretty fast.

I still say any real storyteller that gets the true essence of the show and its characters can tell traditional Y&R stories at an accelerated pace, while playing every major story beat, and not underestimate the intelligence of the audience. Is that being done on Y&R at the moment? I don't think so.

[aMLCproduction]

No need to think. Look at the spoliers. There's a new storyline every single week.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

So, Maria Arena Bell strikes again with her lies that a gay story was still to come on Y&R and it would be "multiple" gay stories. Like always, she lied and manipulated the audience, and in this case, the gay community.

This manipulative writing regime at Y&R, that has no talent to back up their manipulations, need to be fired, like now.

[Sylph]

11 pages and still no firing?

But it's gonna happen. "Soon."