I don't like Devon either, but they could have given him a less disgusting plot twist, since they never write for him anyway, or they could have simply written him out. It's obvious that they aren't invested in the character (like so many other characters).

With so much disgust already on this show, this is a little overboard, especially for someone like Devon, who is hardly ever on anyway.

If(and it's a big if)any of the stories had been layed out with some sort of motivation and logic,maybe they could have worked.

Thinking back to Bill Bell,I always remember Neil/Victoria as not being well motivated or planned,same with Brad/Cassandra,so that kind of storytelling has always existed.

Trouble is it's now the norm rather than the exception.

We still don't know if Adam has same sex feelings,if he has had prior experiences etc

Then we have Neil cheating on Karen,for no apparent reason,which disgusts Devon,who in turn gets it on with the same chick a few months later,for no apparent reason.

But this makes it much easier on the terrible trio of writers

Let's see:

Victor,feeling rejected by Ashley,has sex with Heather.

Sharon,still emotionally fragile, has sex with Cane,who is troubled by the secrets he's hiding from Lily.

Amber,rejected by Daniel and trapped by Deacon,has sex with JT,who is at odds with Victoria.

Daniel has sex with Colleen,who is lonely and vulnerable.

There you go,that took 5 minutes and should provide at least a month of story.

They can meet in another month and go from there.

I take Jack Smith back in a heart beat. I believe he can't write a strong Lily while CK playing her. But a recast. the Winters will have their family momnet & also will mingle with the other cast.

Devon is way better then CKLily. If they can just give him something that isn't incest related.

Edited August 12, 200916 yr by MoTheGreat

Alvin, I was on several board back then, and in 2003/2004, Jack Smith was REVILED. His pimping of Sharon, his destruction of her as the "Good girl" Brittany Hodges and that whole stripper crap. Having the teens on EVERY DAY for months. Him not using Kay and Jill at ALL. And need I mention Cassie's death? That was the last straw for most. I think they DO read boards, and use it as their little free focus group. IT's just that those of us who like Y&R slow are being outnumbered by those in the MTV generation who say theyr'e "bored" or the SL is being "dragged out" when it doens't start and end in less than two weeks. Some of you are acting this way, too. Just 8 months ago, everything was sunshine and lollipops... now you hate it, quit watching, and want everyone fired. I got more fortitude than that! I'm a big boy, and can ride out the bad spots. The only thing I wouldn't be able to ride out is GL type production, or the use of the "Unsteady" cam. THAT type of thing would make we quit watching, because it TRULY means that Y&R does not LOOK like itself anymore (I'm talking LOOK, not FEEL.)

Edited August 12, 200916 yr by alphanguy74

Sorry, Jack Smith was not as badly received as Latham and this regime of Maria, Hogan, and Scott.

Smith had his problems yes, but he wrote the show in a familiar style, with an ensemble cast, and familiar pacing patterns. None of the hacks that followed him have understood these concepts.

I had problems with Smith, but I would take him back now and I really beleived he understood this show better than anyone who came after him.

I'd be willing to give Jack another chance seeing as his son was dying of cancer during his HW tenure. It must have been hard trying to be a HW for Y&R with that going on at home, and knowing LL was there gunning for the HW job too.

http://snarkweighsin.blog-city.com/whatsmithsaid.htm

I don't know where they're doing research now, but maybe its time to try different avenues of research in regards to this show....

The fans are not to blame for the lack of talent and creativity these current writers have though. We didn't hire them, and if it wasn't for us, they wouldn't have a job.

Look on any board right now, I can't say most are happy with this writing regime at the moment, but I can't say I expect them to be fired anytime soon, though I'd like very much for that to happen.

I'd be willing to give Jack another chance seeing as his son was dying of cancer during his HW tenure. It must have been hard trying to be a HW for Y&R with that going on at home, and knowing LL was there gunning for the HW job too.

http://snarkweighsin.blog-city.com/whatsmithsaid.htm

If Y&R and daytime are ending soon anyway, I think I'd prefer for this show to be handed back to a Bell writing protege. It's what Bill Bell wanted. He didn't want his inexperienced daughter in law controlling the show with two recycled hacks that reeked havoc elsewhere.

I only thought Smith's last year was pretty bad overall, and if that's mostly due to his son dying, then I'd take him back any day over what we have now with this crappy writing regime.

Edited August 12, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

OK, you know this show has become an official train-wreck and this gaslighting storyline is jump the shark worthy when cartoon Adam is trying to convicne Ashley that Sabrina is alive and that Ashley just killed her because of the dent in her car, and Ashley appears to be falling for it!

Really, Y&R?!?! Really?

This show is supposed to be good? These writers are supposed to be competent writers that don't treat their audience like idiots? Whatever.

Edited August 12, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

I think alphanguy has a point. There are always going to be fans demanding the heads of those in charge. Where I disagree is that I don't think the fans have any real say in the matter. The only say we have is when we tune out. People reviled LML for ages but only when the ratings fell did someone at Sony finally take the opportunity to get rid of her. And she's since been a convenient scapegoat for those currently at Y&R, as their own stories, which have caused record low ratings, are still passed off as, "At least they're better than LML."

I know how naive it is to expect a soap to improve just because certain people leave. AMC is a show that has somehow managed to become worse with every new headwriter over the past 10 years. That's not easy. But I do think Sheffer at the very least needs to go, now.

I also think they've gone too far to redeem MJ. I don't even know how they would begin. They aren't very good at redeeming characters. I'm sure Stacy Haiduk would do her best but MJ has done so many horrible things.

I also think they've gone too far to redeem MJ. I don't even know how they would begin. They aren't very good at redeeming characters. I'm sure Stacy Haiduk would do her best but MJ has done so many horrible things.

In the grand scheme of things, Patty is not that important a character. She doesn't need to be redeemed. She can go the way of Isabella & sent off to the off-screen Funny Farm.

What is tragic is that TIIC did to Victor Newman, Jr. It goes beyond destroying a single character, which is bad enough, but it destroyed tons of potential story for the Newmans and the show as a whole. How can TIIC not understand that of all your younger characters, the three you have to preserve for long-term stories are Adam, Billy & Lily? Adam is now utterly unwatchable and horribly miscasted. While Billy is a bit of a mess right now, he's still okay, thank goodness, though the show certainly isn't using him to his potential. And I am disgusted TIIC took Lily's ovaries out of her. Five years from now there should have been a Who's the Daddy Story with Billy/Lily/Adam or Adam stealing a cosmetic formula from Jabot or Billy sabatoging a Newman campaign. Lily should still be young and free and playing men against each other. No true Y&R fans gives a [!@#$%^&*] about the Scoobs and their Chipmunk. We love the Chancellors and the Abbotts and the Newmans. We love the corporate intrigue and the family rivalries. If this was a Shakespearean play (TM Beth Ehlers), Billy, Adam and Lily would be the royal figures and central characters of the younger set. Kevin, Daniel and the Scoobs would be strict comic relief - like Bottom in MSND or Toby in 12th Nite. Bill Bell instinctively understood this. There was a reason he gave Jill & Kay (two bitter queens) and Jack & Victor so much heavy drama. Why is Billy being wasted on a High School Musical Love triangle? Why is Lily married off like a 50s housewife? Why why why was Adam turned into a character that burns a fetus in a fireplace? WTF? The stupidiy of TIIC is staggering.

Maybe we'll get an early Christmas present and all three of the Head Writing hacks will be fired and replaced with more competent replacements.

Why is Billy being wasted on a High School Musical Love triangle? Why is Lily married off like a 50s housewife? Why why why was Adam turned into a character that burns a fetus in a fireplace? WTF? The stupidiy of TIIC is staggering.

Word!

ETA: Read the Potpourri thread to see what Sean Kanan had to say about Deacon's rape of Amber. He's not happy about it.

Edited August 12, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

I think the idea they have is a legacy character is a character they deem important. Not one who has ties to main families or is at the core of the show. I think they just care about their own genius. That means someone like Adam is meaningless to them, he's just a zombie who carries out their orders.

I don't remember Sheffer or Rauch or Hamner ever having any great respect for character or history at their other soaps, I'm not surprised the same is true here.

If this was a Shakespearean play (TM Beth Ehlers)

CARA MIA FOR THE WIN!!

I wasn't able to eat my lunch.

WHY, oh I can't believe they went there with Tyra and Devon. Horrible.

What is going on?

Alvin, I was on several board back then, and in 2003/2004, Jack Smith was REVILED. His pimping of Sharon, his destruction of her as the "Good girl" Brittany Hodges and that whole stripper crap. Having the teens on EVERY DAY for months. Him not using Kay and Jill at ALL. And need I mention Cassie's death? That was the last straw for most. I think they DO read boards, and use it as their little free focus group. IT's just that those of us who like Y&R slow are being outnumbered by those in the MTV generation who say theyr'e "bored" or the SL is being "dragged out" when it doens't start and end in less than two weeks. Some of you are acting this way, too. Just 8 months ago, everything was sunshine and lollipops... now you hate it, quit watching, and want everyone fired. I got more fortitude than that! I'm a big boy, and can ride out the bad spots. The only thing I wouldn't be able to ride out is GL type production, or the use of the "Unsteady" cam. THAT type of thing would make we quit watching, because it TRULY means that Y&R does not LOOK like itself anymore (I'm talking LOOK, not FEEL.)

Every writer will be criticized but Jack Smith is way better than what we have now. And he did write some terrific stories and create some memorable couples such as JT and Colleen and Michael and Lauren. And wasn't Jack Smith the one who wrote the story where Kay became an alcoholic again? When Kay had her stroke after she found out Jill was her daughter? I rememember being terribly moved when Jill was crying in her mother's lap that she did not want to be Kay's daughter, so frankly I don't remember Kay and Jill not being used at all. Could he have used them more? Yes, and he should have but nobody back then had been ignored like Michael and Lauren are now.

This show is being filled to the gills with newbies and more are on the way, and I resent that. This show is all about shock, poor pacing, and a very dark view of the world where women must be punished, nobody works, and any romantic relationship must be destroyed, turned into a joke or simply ignored.

And if these writers don't like you or your character, they will make your character do something repulsive and out of character so that they can turn the viewers against you. If Hogan Sheffer wants to play out his hangups on fictional characters, then he should create his own damn show. And Maria Bell should be ashamed of herself if she is encouraging this type of storytelling. It's one thing to so favor a character that you fill up a mansion full of new or returned characters to become the centerpiece of the show, but to allow this type of destruction of your father in law's legacy is truly sad.

I am not in the MTV generation. I am in the generation that appreciates good writing and drama and that is not occurring under this regime.