Y&R: Episodes discussion., Week of July 6

[Soapsuds]

Yeah...I did the same thing and got B&B instead of Y&R.

[cara mia]

Since MTS is staying (yeah!), that does mean probably the some folks are on their way out. This might mean good-bye to Judith Chapman!

MM, IMO, is doing the best he can under really tough circumstances. I don't see how recasting makes a difference though because I don't see another young actor in soaps who can duplicate what CE did. The writing for Adam is both brilliant and horrible all at the same time! Since the role is juicy, it's seems like it would be easier to play than some other roles, but I actually think it's a very difficult role to play, let alone make sympathetic, and especially let alone make it one you empathize with. It's not that Adam is "bad". There are a lot of bad guys out there. It's that he's really disgusting and grotesque. He dresses up like his father's dead wife. Just think about that. He burns fetuses, he sticks needles in his eyes, he has sex acts that are distasteful to him, he hires his stepmother a doctor who sexually molests his patients, he cleans up his naked unconscious victim "down there", he screws his girlfriend less than hour after screwing his boyfriend, he mails his victim a plastic baby head, etc. Most villains on soaps are bad but not literally disgusting. What CE accomplished was extraordinary. Not only did he make his a repulsive character palatable, he had people rooting for Adam. MM may be a better crier or a better emoter or an all-around more talented guy but he cannot touch CE's ability to make the grotesque into something alluring. Very few actors have that particular skill set.

The question is, do the writers want us to care about Adam? Do they want us to root for him? Probably not. So all of CE making himself crazy to make this character someone we cared about what all for naught -- not counting CE's using this to show off that he had that rare talent to transform the grotesque into gold. MM actually fits better with MAB's vision for the character. We should feel distanced from Adam and contempt for him and look forward to his demise/destruction. Nikki's face when she walked in on Adam "kissing" Rafe is supposed to be the reaction of the audience -- shock and judgment. Nelson Branco said that we are not supposed to root for Rafe/Adam as a couple which makes me think that the entire reason for Ram is just to make Rafe a suspect in the Who kill Adam mystery. Otherwise, why not invest in them as a potential couple? MAB loves triangles and quads! When did MAB ever see a potential triangle or quad, and say, Thanks but no thanks?! Why put the kibosh on a Adam/Rafe/P3 triangle before she even has a chance to test the waters? IMO, the whole big gay storyline that MAB promised will be over by winter. Adam will be dead and Phafe will leave town.

The suspects are plenty for Who Killed Adam: Victor, Nick, Nikki, Victoria, JT, Ashley, Jack, Billy, Heather, Paul, Rafe, Estella, Dr. Molester, Abby, Noah, and Mary Jane (if Adam hurts Jack). It will probably be Dr. Molester. Heather will falsely accuse Rafe of murder and then P3 will rescue Rafe and they'll head on Down Under for some off-screen gay love.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

God, this show is really atrocious with its pacing. Adam and Rafe only started having sexual encounters a week ago, and now their cover is blown by Nikki walking in on them? I already hate this storyline, but someone walking in on them in such a compromising position should have happened after a long time while Adam and Rafe's twisted relationship was more developed. Was I supposed to be shocked and surprised when Nikki walked in? I felt nothing. It's rushed. My hated for this poorly written storyline aside, I'm almost positive I would have been very shocked had Nikki walked in on Adam and Rafe say two months or so from now. Rushing these storylines aren't doing anything for the show, it makes everything seem much more hallow and pointless.

[alphanguy74]

I really hate my CBS affiliate. They interrupt Y&R for the most trivial of crap. And Tuesday, although I was tuned in, they did NOT make any announcement on Monday about Tuesday's show being on at 10:00. Since we get Y&R at 11 AM central time, it's also always getting interrupted for the damn presidential news conferences which are always at noon eastern. I've always wished I lived just 20 miles farther east, then instead of KCTV in Kansas City, I could just watch Y&R on KRCG in Jefferson City/Columbia at 12:30. But alas, I only get the ABC and PBS affiliates from Jefferson City/ Columbia. Thank God for soapnet getting Y&R.

[DRW50]

The problem is if we feel distanced from Adam, then what do we care about in this story? We need to have some investment, because constant shock value isn't going to make viewers interested. Ashley has become so generic that I can't connect to what she's going through.

We aren't supposed to root for Mary Jane, but many fans still care about her.

There is no longer any emotional connection to Adam, and there is none, at least for me as a viewer, with Victor or Ashley, so what is there to be interested in for this story?

[Toups]

ITA. I couldn't believe someone found out about them so quickly. Things are happening way too fast. Unfortunately, I heard the next couple of months are like this, that things will happen in lightning pace.

[DRW50]

This is the way soaps are now. Things have to happen at a fast pace, big story developments hurtled over before we have a reason to care. You would think more soaps would see that the one show to have a ratings gain over the past year, DAYS, has a slower pace.

[cara mia]

Carl, I believe MAB thinks that fans do care about Ashley and Victor and their 'love story'. I sure as hell don't but maybe there are some fans out there who do.

We have to hurry up and get to the BABY SWITCH [spec not Spoiler}, followed by Who killed Adam, followed by BABY SWITCHED REVEALED, followed by Cassie comes back from the death she faked for herself. All other beats are in service of these GRAND and IMPORTANT plots! Character shmaracter. It's plot plot plot!

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Thanks for the warning.

Better pacing would make a lot of these ridiculous storylines more watchable. They should see what lightning fast pacing is doing to ATWT, and it's not good.

Part of Y&R's charm was its slow pacing, no other soap took its time to thoroughly play out all the beats in its storylines like Y&R did up until a few years ago. It might have been annoying at times, but the payoff was often more than worth it. Rushing these storylines and their beats goes against this show's grain, and I hate it. Daytime doesn't have anything else to lose at this point, do these people really think rushing through storylines are going to a attack younger viewers who want to be invested in these shows?

[BadZoe]

Maybe they realized that TB needs to be sent to an acting class before they resume.

As for Jill's reaction, I think she's in shock. We'll probably get to see the full force of her fury, at least I hope so. If they don't show it then what was the point of re-signing Jess?

[Y&RWorldTurner]

One can only hope.

I don't think they're interested in Jill at all. Or else they wouldn't have given her this stupid and ridiculous crap about working for some nail salon again. They think it's funny, but it's not. Jill, no matter how broke she supposedly is, would never crawl back to a nail salon.

[DRW50]

They probably minimized her role in case Jill had to be recast. I think this may be about what we get from Jill from now on anyway, a minimal role in any story. I should be grateful they aren't trying to blame Phillip leaving on her, I guess. I'm still glad to see her and I know the writing could be much worse but I'll miss the classic Jill of years past. I just want some good, solid scenes between Phillip and Jill only. I don't even mind that TB is struggling with his performances, because Jess has worked with many types of scene partners over the years and if TB could work OK with Tricia Cast then he'll work with Jess.

[SteveFrame]

I wouldn't mind the pacing of someone catching them if we had follow up between the first encounter and now. And there hasn't been much. How many days has it been since we have really even dealt with the Adam story. It has been several.

It was the same with the Monday show a few weeks ago. We had Cane going off with the blood and talking to someone on the phone (P3 we now know). I counted. It was 7 episodes before we went back to that story.

I don't want them to follow stories every day, but part of things is building up to a crucial point and not just dropping it for that long. Just like Toups said with Phillip's reveal to Nina yesterday. Now how many days will it be before we follow up on that big reveal. Will Nina's reaction be completely wiped away by them not hitting it at the time of the reveal.

My biggest problem with all of it is so many of the characters are acting in such ways that I just don't care about them anymore. I should care about Rafe who is a victim but sadly I don't because I don't know him. I could care less what Adam is doing to him. I care more about what he is doing to Estella than I do to Rafe. I at least know Estella some from other times on the show.

Ashley has been made so dumb that I don't care about her at all anymore.

And sorry but I can't care about Patty at all. Her poisoning a child and showing no remorse has just ruined her for me.

And the quad thing reminds me so much of the EJami/Lumi stuff where the writers refused to make a choice. I ended up hating all the characters in that mess. And I am starting to hate Jack/Nick/Phyllis/Sharon. If they all left the show tomorrow, I would not shed a tear. And I used to love all 4.

They have made me hate a lot of characters. Strangely the only one that they have made me like is Cane - of the ones I didn't like before.

Cane, Kay, Jill, Nikki and Paul are about the only characters I like and care about anymore. I would Lauren still if she was shown. The rest of them I could care less about at this point.

[Cat]

Loved the Daniel & Noah bonding scenes. LOVED! Frget the Scooby Gang. Grazadei and Schmidt need to be the next bromance. Or step-bromance.

[MarkH]

Oh, wow, yeah!

I even liked the previous Noah with Daniel. That was sort of an "idol" relationship, but it worked great. Even than, as Phick grew closer, Daniel kind of naturally fell into the step-brother role. It has been a real detriment to the story that they did not continue that part of it. I think a lot of viewers would have been more invested in the Nick-Phyllis union if they had better understood the "somewhat of a family" that had grown up around the couple.

Yesterday was a great step toward showing that, and toward reminding us that Summer has two protective big brothers. Imagine how cool it would be if Summer survived, and we saw the boys scrutinizing her dates in the years to come.

If I can send smoke signals to LA and the writing team, I send this heartfelt plea: Script these incidental moments. Just put together the characters who should be together. Play the reactions. Let it slow the plot, and risk some of your critics calling you 'boring'. These moments--THESE--are the show's gold! Here we have a relatively new actor (Schmidt), but the moment STILL worked because of the history.

Let us hope Noah is there to support Daniel during his apparent trials to come. (Why is Amber being so weird? I get that she thinks this all relates to her somehow...but what has caused her to so firmly draw this conclusion??)

You say "forget the Scoobies", but GR/EO were interviewed yesterday by NB...and they talked about how the foursome should always play together. They really want to stay in that "quad" mode.