That's the problem with all the soaps today. Every writer is a frustrated wannabe prime-time auteur and the don't want to write a TRADITIONAL soap opera. The rules for a 5-day a week/52 weeks a year show are not the same for something that's on 1-day a week/22 weeks a year - or, in the case of cable, 13 weeks a year. True Blood, Dexter, the Sopranos and other cable shows can get away with being very violent and coarse because we're not watching them every day, for years at a time. If on True Blood, a vampire kills and feasts on a character we've known for 3 episodes, it cannot be compared to watching a 20+years character like Ashley being tortured horrifically. They are different genres and different rules apply.

I agree with you, cara mia, except that one sentence. I think it's a bad conclusion to jump to that these writers are frustrated wannabe prime-time writers. I believe many of them DO want to write soap opera. In fact, I believe they love traditional soap opera as well. But the rules have changed - networks have stepped in much more than they were twenty years ago, and it's all about "Bigger! Faster! Stunt-ier!" (A post I've typed up eight thousand times myself, so I'm summing it up in one sentence so I don't sound like a broken record myself.) To assume again, like I was saying to Alvin the other day, that this is just a case of a bunch of writers who don't give a crap and are frustrated they're not writing prime-time isn't always the case. I can safely say it about someone like Pratt - his frustrations at not being back in primetime are obvious. But I truly believe many of these writers do appreciate good soap opera. TRADITIONAL soap opera. And often times, just aren't allowed to write it.

But otherwise, yeah - I'm totally on the same page as you. But considering it's happening at ALL the soaps, at ALL the networks, it implies to me it's a genre-problem, and starts at the top with the networks. And not the fault of one or two writers. Which is why I really feel you could take MAB, HS and SH off the team entirely - and the show might not look/sound much different at all.

That's the problem with all the soaps today. Every writer is a frustrated wannabe prime-time auteur and the don't want to write a TRADITIONAL soap opera. The rules for a 5-day a week/52 weeks a year show are not the same for something that's on 1-day a week/22 weeks a year - or, in the case of cable, 13 weeks a year. True Blood, Dexter, the Sopranos and other cable shows can get away with being very violent and coarse because we're not watching them every day, for years at a time. If on True Blood, a vampire kills and feasts on a character we've known for 3 episodes, it cannot be compared to watching a 20+years character like Ashley being tortured horrifically. They are different genres and different rules apply.

You also have to give viewers a reason to care. That's what I think is most missing from Y&R at the moment. I wish I saw these stories as gripping tales that are just too much for the audience, but I think most of the stories are very hollow inside. It's all plot over character, with little thought of why people would behave in a certain way.

Doug Marland used to take at least 6 months to try to get to know the flavor of the soap he was writing. No one seems to do that in daytime now. Especially not a writer like Hogan Sheffer, who makes every soap he writes falls into the same pattern. I do think taking him off would be of some help. The longer he stays, the more the rot sets in.

Edited June 27, 200916 yr by CarlD2

You also have to give viewers a reason to care. That's what I think is most missing from Y&R at the moment. I wish I saw these stories as gripping tales that are just too much for the audience, but I think most of the stories are very hollow inside. It's all plot over character, with little thought of why people would behave in a certain way.

Doug Marland used to take at least 6 months to try to get to know the flavor of the soap he was writing. No one seems to do that in daytime now. Especially not a writer like Hogan Sheffer, who makes every soap he writes falls into the same pattern. I do think taking him off would be of some help. The longer he stays, the more the rot sets in.

LOL! Carl's hatred of Hogan Sheffer is as well-known around these parts as RSinclair's hatred of Megan McTavish and Sylph's hatred of Kay Alden.

Edited June 27, 200916 yr by brimike

LOL! Carl's hatred of Hogan Sheffer is as well-known around these parts as RSinclair's hatred of Megan McTavish and Sylph's hatred of Kay Alden.

I didn't even know about those hatreds.

I do give too much blame to Hogan Sheffer. He's ruined a lot of soap characters I liked and not been a great help to several soaps I enjoyed. I know he's not acting alone. I just get frustrated because I see this same pattern each time he's at a soap and I don't know how he gets hired.

I didn't even know about those hatreds.

I do give too much blame to Hogan Sheffer. He's ruined a lot of soap characters I liked and not been a great help to several soaps I enjoyed. I know he's not acting alone. I just get frustrated because I see this same pattern each time he's at a soap and I don't know how he gets hired.

I hear ya. I've got a few writers on my list that I wonder the same thing about.

LOL! Carl's hatred of Hogan Sheffer is as well-known around these parts as RSinclair's hatred of Megan McTavish and Sylph's hatred of Kay Alden.

Just like brimike's hatred of Dena Higley.

Just like brimike's hatred of Dena Higley.

Touche, good sir. Touche.

Can you imagine this thread if SHE got her hands on Y&R? People would be screaming to have this team back.

Edited June 27, 200916 yr by brimike

Having Summer, Nick's daughter forever ties Phyllis to Nick, years of storyline there!!! having Summer become Jack's makes no sense, Jack and Phyllis already have a tie in the child they lost together and Jack's son Kyle with Diane that Phyllis raised before Jack gave him back to Diane without talking to Phyllis first.

I think Billy IS the father, I do think MJ changed the results and Sharon's lie's to EVERYONE will set the next part of this arc in motion!

Jack and Phyllis dont have any ties. When was the last time their dead baby was brought up? I didnt even know they had one or completely forgot bc Im drawing a blank. Its been years since Kyle was even on, so he's pretty much a nonfactor

I didn't even know about those hatreds.

I do give too much blame to Hogan Sheffer. He's ruined a lot of soap characters I liked and not been a great help to several soaps I enjoyed. I know he's not acting alone. I just get frustrated because I see this same pattern each time he's at a soap and I don't know how he gets hired.

Yeah, tell me about it. How come these untalented people keep being hired no matter all the failures they have achieved?! I can't believe it. The same goes for Hamner, LML and Babs Bloom. These people were at the helm of Port Charles, for goodness sake. No offense to PC fans, but the show was the lowest rated soap, and as a matter of fact it sucked. I'm not saying whoever put their name with a failing project should be blacklisted but still. These people, like Hogan, keep being hired as if they were Oscar winners.

Can you imagine this thread if SHE got her hands on Y&R? People would be screaming to have this team back.

LMAO! I am almost 100% sure that will never happen! This team is, actually, nearing Dena Higley territory! And fast! It's a sad day when the only suggestion I have, given that none of these people is going anywhere, is to hire someone to consult. And whose consulting must be taken seriously and implemented. Similar to the role Bryan Fuller had on Heroes.

I used to think Carl hated too much on Hogan but I have now fully come around to his POV. Looking at Hogan's runs at ATWT, DOOL and now Y&R, Hogan's misogyny is unmistakable.

Network interference is undoubtedly a factor in the demise of soaps. Maybe it's not the writers who are ashamed of writing for soaps but folks like Frons and Bloom who are ashamed of running daytime divisions.

Network interference is undoubtedly a factor in the demise of soaps. Maybe it's not the writers who are ashamed of writing for soaps but folks like Frons and Bloom who are ashamed of running daytime divisions.

That. And also the fact that every producer and network executive secretly wants to be a writer and has a dreadful screenplay in close vicinity.

I don't care what what other writer is hacking away at some other show or what some current HW did on another show. This show sucks, and I enjoy nothing on it. Maria Arena Bell, Hogan Sheffer, and Scott Hamner are NOT working for me and many others. I find this show to be very similar to Latham's storytelling, which no one had any problems bashing. Y&R on its own, not compared to other shows, just sucks. This show isn't a soap anymore, it's a wannabe HBO show trying to be "hip" but it's without a soul or any real depth. This is dreadful.

This team is, actually, nearing Dena Higley territory! And fast!

No way - that one I have to argue. And here's why. Dena completely spins her wheels for three months, playing the same scene over and over again, then throws all of her plot into the first week of Sweeps. At least Y&R is moving. Yes, it's going WAY too fast and just hitting plot point after plot point without giving us enough breathing room or emotional resonance. You'll hear no argument from me on that. But at least it's obvious to me there's story at work here. Too much story, flying way too quickly, and not giving us any reason to care before it's on to the next plot point. But story, nevertheless. Not three months of boring nothingness and then one big reveal. Also, Higley doesn't give a damn, just leaves her writing team to fix all of her mistakes. MAB, from what I can tell, absolutely has a game plan. It may be a game plan a lot of people disagree with, and think is destroying the show. But at least she's doing the work. Unlike Higley, who just wants to sit back and collect a paycheck without writing one word of long story.

Sorry, Sylph. You know me and DH. I don't think there's anything MAB can do that will make me think she's anywhere close to the depths I think Higley rots in.

No way - that one I have to argue. And here's why. Dena completely spins her wheels for three months, playing the same scene over and over again, then throws all of her plot into the first week of Sweeps. At least Y&R is moving. Yes, it's going WAY too fast and just hitting plot point after plot point without giving us enough breathing room or emotional resonance. You'll hear no argument from me on that. But at least it's obvious to me there's story at work here. Too much story, flying way too quickly, and not giving us any reason to care before it's on to the next plot point. But story, nevertheless. Not three months of boring nothingness and then one big reveal. Also, Higley doesn't give a damn, just leaves her writing team to fix all of her mistakes. MAB, from what I can tell, absolutely has a game plan. It may be a game plan a lot of people disagree with, and think is destroying the show. But at least she's doing the work. Unlike Higley, who just wants to sit back and collect a paycheck without writing one word of long story.

:lol: True enough.