Members brimike Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 Maybe that's what it is, Carl, that's made me do such a one-eighty with him. It's a story where a man is driven by his heart, and not his d--k. I don't really want to see bubble baths and rose petals either (always found that stuff too Harlequinn-y for my tastes), but there is a lot of heart in this story, which is what's missing from the gaslighting story. So I appreciate it in a way I might not if it were up against other stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 I know that's what I enjoy. I'm glad for a break from stories which are all about asking us to pity this guy who can't control his crotch, and Cane seems to have some inner conflict going on, which is what soaps are about. And his stories at least tend to focus on the vets, when he isn't only zeroed in on Lily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 I know this isn't apart of episode discussion, but since this discussion has started, I must chime in on this Cane issue. The thing with Cane, with my biases aside since I've disliked the character and actor from day one, is that I'm not at all amused by him being afraid and feeling threatened. All I know is he conned two of my favourite characters into believing he was related to them. I don't care that he's never had a stable family life and used these two women as a means of achieving that. All I know is that he scammed characters I care about, and for a time, altered huge history in regards to this show. Also, Cane is such a poorly defined and developed characters, all of this being thrown at him at once doesn't impress me or make me like the character even more. Also, now that he's not actually related to anyone on this show, why do I have reason to care? If his only real link is to his marriage to Lily, a coupling I just detest, why will he continue to be on this show eating up airtime? Totally disposable character that I hope will be written out soon enough. I think my feelings on the Phillip III storyline were made quite clear at the beginning of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 I probably should hate Cane for what he's done to Katherine and Jill, but sadly, even though this probably wasn't even intentional from Y&R, he's been the only person who has usually been there for Jill over the past few years. I know the pain is going to be terrible for Jill but I don't think Cane has only scammed her for profit, I think he does genuinely care about her. I will hate to see Jill lose such a connection, because all she will have left is Billy, who has never been close to her and likely never will be, and Katherine, who has so much baggage with her, they're never going to be close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brimike Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 And I, for one, appreciate the restraint, A! Since we brought up Cane vs. Adam, I think the thing missing from the gaslighting story is someone for Adam to open up to. CE and some of the writers have tried to inject some remorse into Adam, but if he had somebody to talk to, to express how his plan spiraled out of control and how his original plan to drive Ashley crazy to make Victor/Jack suffer led to a death he never intended - than it might work better. But because Adam has nobody to admit this to, it just seems like he's evil-for-evil's-sake. I hate hate HATE ghosts on daytime, but I almost wish there was an Adam monologue at Hope's grave, where he can say all of these things. Hell, I'd settle for one of those "Confess all to Ashley when she's asleep and doesn't hear him" scenes, as cheesy as those are to swallow. It would go a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 This whole home imprisonment thing really confined the Adam character. Because of it, he's not realistically allowed to interact with many people. But even having somebody to talk to wouldn't make this gaslighting story any less ridiculous anymore. Adam's gone a little too far, and I have no hope for a longterm successful redemption arc. I get that he might have wanted to get back at both Jack and Victor though Ashley, but he's now a baby killer, blackmailer, and overall cartoon villain. Where does he realistically go from here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brimike Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 As others have said before, I'm willing to wait and see what the plan is for Adam a year from now, or whatever. I'm not worried about that. I never ever thought Todd Manning would survive beyond his trial, and now here we are, fifteen years later. I'm just saying I'm looking for ways to make him not look so cartoony. Blackmailing is fine (who doesn't do that, on any soap?) but the baby-killing part is definitely an issue. And I think if Adam were showcased as more three-dimensional, more upset by the corner he backed himself into, people would be more forgiving of the story. Daytime has always been filled with women who ended up falling down the stairs and losing a kid because of an argument, an abusive friend/boyfriend, a rival, a jealous antagonist, etc. I don't see how this is any different. We have no idea where the story will be in six months - so I don't want to think about "where they go from here". I'm more concerned with what's going on right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 It's hard to write Adam out of this corner he's in and make him seem less cartooney in the present. I don't get his full motivation for going after Ashley this aggressively. Yes, it might go back to Jack and Victor, but Adam's been after her with almost no remorse for so long. That's a big problem, we rarely see scenes where he appears to be remorseful over the stuff he's done. He doesn't sit back and reflect enough over it. For someone who is serving a prison sentence at home, he's been too occupied with haunting Ashley and blackmailing a perverted doctor. It's one nasty scheme after another with him. I don't think it was wise to give him this gaslighting storyline so shortly after that whole forged diary fiasco. I don't think they've established properly who Adam Wilson is. We know he does bad things, but why does he do them so often? Is there a psychological and emotional basis there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brimike Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 I don't know. I get why Adam is doing it - after taking the fall for what happened at Newman while Victor was in Mexico, then taking the fall for Jack/the diary, I understand his motivations completely. But yeah - I'm with you about the lack of reflection and the remorse. That's what I was saying in my earlier post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 But why Ashley? What has she done to him other than be the kindest person to him in that house? I guess that's why it's so hard to swallow. Adam continually screws everyone over, including those who have been nothing but good to him. Heather, Ashley, and Rafe have been the ones that have went out of their way to be kind to him and accept him knowing his flaws. But what has he done for them, he screwed them all over and is playing them all for fools. Pretty soon the whole town is going to hate him. Even the most craziest of villains have had at least one person they liked and one person who always saw good in them that they didn't want to disappoint. Who does Adam have? He continues to backstab everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dm. Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 Adam... meet corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brimike Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 The "why" for Ashley makes total sense to me - she's the common link between Victor and Jack. It's the same reason Victor picked MJ to go after Jack, in spite of what it would do to Paul. Collateral damage. But I am hoping they play up more of the Adam guilt as the story progresses, and he realizes he has deeply damaged the one person who gave him a chance. Time will tell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lovely_m Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 It's only Ashley, so the writers can show the audience how evil Adam is. I hate how they have Adam this way, it's like the writers are saying the only good children Victor has are the ones that came out of Nikki's womb. Unfortunately for Adam the person who could have been his saving grace is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 Ashley, Rafe, and Heather have all been there for him and given have a chance, but again, Adam doesn't care, he seems set out to destroy any positive relationship. I wish there was some type of psychological basis for this. I don't feel the Adam character has been deeply explored, I don't feel like I have a sense of who this guy really is. Ashley's victimization is turning me off too, I must say. On a show where Sharon and Phyllis have lost their minds over Nick, Chole is pining for Billy knowing he'll never be committed to her, Patty Jane is a psycho set out for revenge over the ex-husband who wronged her 25 years ago. I really think this show is in some dire need of a sassy, independent and strong woman that isn't losing her mind (or being set up to lose her mind) or chasing after some man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brimike Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 Yes, yes, yes, Alvin. We know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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