Y&R: Shocking Role Recast

[TheDSA]

Oh, Brenda dickson

reading all the posts and the constant back in forth "what if" scenarios, I'm going to wait till the full story comes out (if it ever does) to pass judgement on CE. The only thing we can safely say is that he shouldn't have quit abruptly mid-contract.

All this hooplah has really made it easier for me to accept a recast.

[All My Shadows]

For the record, the word "homophobe" is terribly, terribly misused. Look in the dictionary. Look up every other "-phobe"/"-phobia." Arachnophobia, agoraphobia, claustrophobia, pyrophobia, etc. Look up "phobia" itself. The feeling/emotion at work is fear, not hate. Look up "gynophobia." The "fear" of women, not "hatred towards" women. Look up all of the others. "Fear of," not "hatred towards." Somehow "homophobia" slipped through the cracks and became the go-to term for gay-bashers. It is one of the very few "phobias" to be defined by hate alongside fear. IMO, a gay-basher is a gay-basher is a gay-basher. No need to wrap it up in big pretentious words.

</future English teacher of America>

[Evan]

I was just reading on Soap Central that Y&R apparently have had difficulties with Chris Engen for some time, and they had Muhney lined up as the Adam recast ages ago - explains why they were so quick to announce the new guy being hired not long after Branco spilt the beans late last week.

[YRBB]

Yes, indeed, as if we'll ever get the true story via CE or the official statements! Better wait for the second coming!

[Cashton]

I knew I should have not checked this site on my blackberry (thanks rythm!), but I did! And so it goes...

-It's safe to assume these actors aren't homophobic as they have attended gay advocacy rallies, meetings, parties and raise money for LGBT causes and there's no evidence to suggest otherwise unlike say...oh...Chris Engen!

- Please show me where I labeled you homophobic or a self-loathing gay? I mentioned str8 actors in gay roles. Also, please tell me where I said someone is a homophobe if they don't label Chris Engen one or have "sympathy" for him?

- Don't misquote me, or in this case completely take a phrase and attribute it to me. I never said you or anyone is "against the cause". Now THAT makes me sick.

- I have been completely civil and respectful to the members of the board. I may challenge opinions but i thought that's what we do in online FORUMS. If you disagree, PLEASE by ALL means disagree, but don't make it a personal war between us as it's not.

- MAB doesn't need to consult with actors about their roles, she has enough to do than to placate spineless actors and hold their hand to get through scary gay kiss scenes.

- To imply that Engen was held against his will is ludicrous.

<double sigh> How do you know how Perez defines homophobe?? And AGAIN, please tell me where I said if a random person doesn't kiss, have sex, or simulate sex with the same sex they are a homophobe? Engen is (was) an ACTOR. Are those "people who support gay rights" whom you know, ACTORS performing on a show, under contract, who refused to do a gay kiss?

I get the sense that you reluctanly agree with me on a few points but dislike my tone and the fact I use big words. If i come accross as angry I am. I am no less angry than a woman who has had to silently endure her boss's sexist remarks. I am no less disgusted than when my best friend, who is black, was outraged that her high school "friends" all wore the confederate flag tee-shirts on MLK day as a joke. I am no more upset than any minority who has to sit and watch people congratulate, applaud, defend and justify offensive behavior. But the difference is that I'm apparently not allowed to be outraged. Does Engen deserve to rot in hell? No! Should he be ashamed of being so irrational and STUPID? Yes.

I've tried to help people understand my POV that homophobia is not a cardinal sin or a biggot or horrible person. Just that those views should not be embraced in a tolerant society. But the way some people rationalize his behavior, you would think that playing a gay kiss was akin to playing the scene from Lars Van Triers "The Anti-Christ".

[Y&RWorldTurner]

This topic is getting old now. LOL!

I think I'm all Engen-ed out...

[Aback]

Some random food for thought:

- I can't help but thinking: what if Victor was still as manipulative and sinister as back in the day, and TPTB asked him to kiss a guy? Would he have walked off? Okay, I know this is quite a silly scenario. But you get the point I'm trying to make. I do believe that CE had every right to be against kissing another man - for whatever reason. Some of you will say that, then, the guy is no Heath Ledger, Sean Penn etc. But who says he wants to be a great actor? He probably liked the paycheck, and wants to use it to finance his music. Who knows. After all he was given the role of a straight man. And MAB should have talked to him first about this. I know Ellen Wheeler did, when she first pitched the idea of Otalia to CC and the other actress.

- What I don't understand, and it is likely I'll never find out, is this: I thought that actors receive their scripts one week before shooting. So, did CE walk off when he read the script... or the moment he had to shoot that damn kiss? If the latter was the case, it doesn't really make sense.

- Oh, I almost forgot. I doubt any straight man would be willing to French-kiss another man for any plausible reason. So, I don't see why they could not have just shot the scene with CE's disgusted face. Thinking about it, a kiss was not even necessary. Adam could have just teased Rafe...and then nothing would come out of it (except for Rafe going back home all hot and bothered Okay, sorry. That was uncalled for)

[IcyOne]

Who knows what the full story here is. There’s a chance we’ll never know. I just wanted to say that if CE wasn’t comfortable kissing another man, then so be it. Why should he be forced into doing something that he isn’t comfortable with? Scenes are cut, or altered, from film and television all the time because the actor didn’t feel comfortable doing them. I see this as no different from a nude scene being cut because the actress decides she doesn’t want to bare it all. And not wanting to kiss another man does not make an actor any more a “homophobe” as not wanting to get nude would make an actor a “prude.”

What I’m saying here is that actors have every right to pick and choose. I’m pretty sure many (all the way up to the A-listers) have declined playing all types of characters (gay included)…or have walked away when the role called for, or evolved into, something that they weren’t content with—but couldn’t be changed. And they’re entitled to that discretion. Just because this guy is an actor does not mean that he should be willing to take any and every role (or story) thrown at him. Before signing on for roles, actors are usually given scripts or character breakdowns. If it’s something that they are interested in, then they proceed. If it’s not, then they don’t. Perhaps from CE’s perspective, his attitude was: “I didn’t sign on for this.”

Rumor has it that Ryan Phillippee quit OLTL because the writers were going to bring on a male love interest for his character, and he wasn’t interested in going that far. Will Smith refused to kiss Anthony Michael Hall in Six Degree’s of Separation. People bring up Jake Gyllenhaal, but I recall an interview with him saying that (because of the gay content) he declined the role in Brokeback Mountain several times before he was ultimately coaxed to go ahead and do it. All continued to work. So while the contract breeching may be serious, I don’t think his refusing to play gay (or faux-gay) is enough to brand him a bigot and uncastable anywhere else.

Part of having a career is being able to use your aptitude in a way that allows you to take advantage of it and enjoy your work, which includes being choosey. If they just sprung this on him out of the blue, then he had every right to be upset if that wasn’t what he had in mind when he joined the cast. I’ll agree that walking out on a contract was foolish. He should have (assuming he didn’t) either asked that his character not be taken in this direction…or to be released from his contract. If he did that and they refused, then he had a decision to make. Sometimes it’s best to sacrifice your job than to make yourself sick always going to work miserable.

That said, CE is a good actor. I’ve enjoyed him on Y&R and would gladly welcome him at any of the other soaps that I watch.

[alphanguy74]

Wonderful post, Cashton... I think I love you. That was the crux of my outrage as well, the idea that having to play a gay character is SO HORRIBLE that you have to break your contract over it. Where would his righteous indignation come from, anyway? From what I understand, Engen is living in sin and had a baby out of wedlock.... not exactly the catholic way. MAB has enough trouble trying to juggle everybody's wants and needs, for some pipsqueak newcomer to make demands is ridiculous, she has enough trouble trying to fight intereference from CBS when writing her show. She also has people like BRAEDEN that she has to placate, and I'm SURE, massage his ego. Engen is acting like a petulant child, and who needs to deal with that?

[SteveFrame]

I did enjoy it Cashton.

Cashton, I am going to pretend for a minute that I agree with everything you are saying. I don't but let's say I do.

Even I fully agreed with it and agreed that it was as black and white as you see it, we would still have a problem.

To me two of the worst times in American History were the Salem Witch Trials and the time of lynch mobs in out society where people were executed before they were even proven guilty.

And to me that is what our nation is going back too. And here you have had people like you, Perez and so many others who have become just like a lynch mob and banded together in your big angry mob and you have lynched Engen. And he hasn't even been found guilty. You did it on gossip. GOSSIP!!!!!!

How can that ever be right. EVen with your narrow definition of homophobia, you didn't even prove 100% that he is but you have already tried and executed him.

Now you tell me who is right here. Who has committed the biggest crime.

To neither one of them are the bigger crime. Their both equal.

You have done the same thing that "anti-abortion" people do when they take and proclaim they are pro-life, but they have no problem killing people who perform abortions. I'm pro-life until it comes to that they say and they lose any credibility to their argument with the hyprocrisy.

And sorry but this lynch mob mentality makes us as gays look like a bunch of insane queens. Is that the image we want to project to society.

[alphanguy74]

You'd be suprised. All kinds of straight actors will do such things. Some straight actors have appeared in gay porn. I lost my virginity to a straight man. When it comes to recieveing a paycheck and/or "Getting off" ... lots of straight men will do most anyhting.

[SteveFrame]

Excellent post. I totally agree with everything you've said.

[Aback]

I was talking about Adam, not CE

Something else I wanted to add: I would have walked off the minute they had told me that my character was going blind, or that I had to hold a needle so close to my eye. Now that's a phobia! I could not watch that scene with the needle.

[Cashton]

Lynching??? How many minorites have gone out and lynched a majority? How am I lynching Engen? That's a crazy word to use. Who has Perez strung up from a tree? Steve - I think you said it best. We are not going to agree. I'm ok with that!

It's an exhausting topic. My firends now hate me for typing on my blackberry all night. Glad someone understands my POV.

[SteveFrame]

That word IDEA is my biggest problem with all of this.

You got so outraged and crucified a person over the perception or the idea that felt this way. You took even further than the just the idea that someone might feel that way.

People ran with the gossip and crucified him even before you even knew that this was true or not. How can that ever be right?

To me it can't ever be right. It is no better than in some muslim countries where people have been killed on the appearance that they were gay. It happens, because in Muslim controlled countries (the radical ones) homosexuality is punishable by death. And they don't wait to find out in most cases if these people are really guilty of it either - they just kill them on the idea or the percaption.

That just makes me sick and not proud to be gay at all that we have gotten so intolerable that we convict someone before we even know the truth.

This reminds me so much of 1975 when George Reinholt worked with Paul Rauch and Rauch told so many lies to the press about Reinholt's tirades on the set of Another World. Even years later he was still telling lies about him and Jacqueline Courtney even to the point that they both had to go on record with SOW again to clear up some of the lies.

Yes Reinholt was a bad boy. He had a temper but not everything told about him was true, but he paid the price for it because people chose to believe everything they read about him.

Oh and one last thing I guess if you have sex out of wedlock that doesn't allow you to have righteous indignation about anything. I'm sorry I don't know how you meant that but that sounds even more judgmental.

And Cashton that right there is the reason I choose not to go to church. I don't want to act like a hypocrite because let me tell you if people find out you have committed some kind of sin they will sure use it against you to make their points. To me whether Engen lives with or got 10,000 women pregnant has anything to do with this - yet here it is brought up and used to further make him look bad.

I'll just live my life as the sinner I am and not give people ammunition to throw darts at me.