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I watched AW from about early 80s as a kid until the end. One of my favorite romances was actually between Carl and Rachel because it had so much history and conflict behind it. Plus, the performers were top notch. I know others felt that it should have been a no-go in terms of story between these two characters. It was great to see Rachel driving story again.

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I never watched this show when it was on or during the SOAPnet or AOL/Hulu reruns. I tried here and there but it never caught my eye like other soaps. I did watch the AOL reruns of Texas where I fell in love with Iris. I decided to buy Harding Lemay’s book and now I am so obsessed with this world which is a shame since his material isn’t even available lol. 

 

I did find some 70s scenes between Alice and Steve and I agree with his assessment of Jacqueline Courtney but I found the actor playing Steve to be terrible. I also loved the snippets in the book about the actress who played Mary. How do y’all feel about her being written out? I think it’s a shame she let her ego get the best of her because I’m sure he would’ve wrote great things for her. I’m not sure what she expected by refusing to read the lines as intended. 

 

All the talk of Ada and Rachel and Mac has me wanting to explore Another World, even if it isn’t the stuff Lemay wrote! Looks like an interesting show with quite the backstory. 

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2 hours ago, Chris B said:

 

All the talk of Ada and Rachel and Mac has me wanting to explore Another World, even if it isn’t the stuff Lemay wrote! Looks like an interesting show with quite the backstory. 

 

If you have the time please watch the Rachel/Mac/Mitch/Janice stuff that it is on Youtube. Christine Jones is simply riveting. 

 

You can find a lot on munecojim. 

 

Here's one meaty Rachel episode:

 

 

Edited by DRW50

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15 hours ago, Chris B said:

I never watched this show when it was on or during the SOAPnet or AOL/Hulu reruns. I tried here and there but it never caught my eye like other soaps. I did watch the AOL reruns of Texas where I fell in love with Iris. I decided to buy Harding Lemay’s book and now I am so obsessed with this world which is a shame since his material isn’t even available lol. 

 

I did find some 70s scenes between Alice and Steve and I agree with his assessment of Jacqueline Courtney but I found the actor playing Steve to be terrible. I also loved the snippets in the book about the actress who played Mary. How do y’all feel about her being written out? I think it’s a shame she let her ego get the best of her because I’m sure he would’ve wrote great things for her. I’m not sure what she expected by refusing to read the lines as intended. 

 

All the talk of Ada and Rachel and Mac has me wanting to explore Another World, even if it isn’t the stuff Lemay wrote! Looks like an interesting show with quite the backstory. 

 

In my opinion the firing of Virginia Dwyer (Mary Matthews) was one of the biggest (and there were many) mistakes ever made by the powers that be at Another World.  It would be the equivalent of killing of Alice Horton (DOOL), Bert Bauer (GL) or Nancy Hughes (ATWT).  I believe the issue was Harding Lemay's ego not hers. Although she did seem to have her issues. Mr. Lemay was extremely talented but his arrogance was so obvious in every interview of his i have ever read.  If he respected the history of the show and wanted to work things out with Virginia Dwyer he could have.  He was showing her and the other actors that he was the boss.  

Edited by Efulton

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@Efulton From the book he made it clear they made several attempts to work things out with her from Paul Rauch talking to her and he even went to lunch with her and she was adamant she wasn’t willing to make any adjustments. Granted we only have his perspective but it seemed like they had a few divas in the cast and seemed to give them chance after chance before doing anything to them. Even the guy he said was his friend was given several reprieves before Rauch fired him. I do think it’s a shame the show lost a matriarch but it does seem like it was her doing. 

 

In general did Lemay feature much of the Matthews family or did he phase them out?

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1 hour ago, Chris B said:

@Efulton From the book he made it clear they made several attempts to work things out with her from Paul Rauch talking to her and he even went to lunch with her and she was adamant she wasn’t willing to make any adjustments. Granted we only have his perspective but it seemed like they had a few divas in the cast and seemed to give them chance after chance before doing anything to them. Even the guy he said was his friend was given several reprieves before Rauch fired him. I do think it’s a shame the show lost a matriarch but it does seem like it was her doing. 

 

In general did Lemay feature much of the Matthews family or did he phase them out?

I believe Lemay slowly phased out the Matthews family and replaced them with the Corys/Frames.  The Matthews family was sort of brought back in the late 80s with Aunt Liz/Russ/Olivia/Josie. I always enjoyed the antics of Aunt Lize and Irene Dailey.

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13 hours ago, Chris B said:

I decided to buy Harding Lemay’s book and now I am so obsessed with this world which is a shame since his material isn’t even available lol. 

Seven Years is a great memoir filled with funny anachronistic details.  From his fascination with Sleasar's mimeograph machines to the economics of a pre-WGA writing staff, it is a great read.  The stories of his early lunches with P&G executives and his phone calls with Ina are stuffed with sarcasm.   Of course, others may have had alternative perspectives, but they didn't write dishy memoirs, so we're left with Lemay's version (Churchill quote - history is written by the victors).

Edited by j swift

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8 minutes ago, j swift said:

Seven Years is a great memoir filled with funny anachronistic details.  From his fascination with Sleasar's mimeograph machines to the economics of a pre-WGA writing staff, it is a great read.  The stories of his early lunches with P&G executives and his phone calls with Ina are stuffed with sarcasm.   Of course, others may have had alternative perspectives, but they didn't write dishy memoirs, so we're left with Lemay's version (Churchill quote - history is written by the victors).

I LOVED Seven Years. It was such a great insight into daytime TV during the 70s as a whole.

 

I really loved reading about when he decided to turn Rachel from the villain to the heroine. Many of the stories that Lemay wrote in the 70s impacted the show for the rest of its run.

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I wonder if Lemay's memoir is the first instance of a writer admitting that their relationship with the actors and production affected their plotlines? 

 

We take it for granted and even joke about the relationship between certain soap writers and their muses, but I don't know if any other soap writer's memoir was so directly introspective.  Ken Corday's and Bill Bell's respective books were more of a timeline of events with some mildly juicy stories.  Lemay actually admits that he left AW because the expansion to 60 minutes wore him out and left him bereft of ideas for further plots which seems revolutionary in a genre that recycles the same five head writers over and over.

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(sorry, I did something wrong and made this whole post a spoiler - though it's about 40-year old storylines)

 

I wouldn't say that Lemay phased out the Matthews family at all - most of that was done in the 1980s, following his tenure. He did change the primary focus of the show from the Rachel-Steve-Alice triangle to the Rachel-Mac-Iris triangle, which made the show far more interesting, but the Matthewses were still around and involved in storylines.

 

Virginia Dwyer and Jacquie Courtney were dismissed, but the role of Alice was recast and Alice still had stories for several years after (Sally's adoption, running Frame Construction, romances with Ray Gordon, Willis, and Dan Shearer (I think)). Pat's family, the Randolphs, were still important, and both Michael and Marianne were SORASed and stayed around for the decade. Lemay had Pat start her career at Cory Publishing, certainly a significant storyline for 70s women who found themselves in similar positions. I think Lemay really liked Irene Dailey and used Liz quite well, in opposition to Rachel and Ada and as a lonely woman who interfered in the lives of her relatives, especially Jim and Russ (it was later writers who mostly used Liz as comic relief and ignored her dislike of Rachel - remember that Liz was originally after Mac for herself, with Iris's encouragement).  Lemay actually brought back Liz's daughter Susan and her husband Dan for a while. (It wasn't Lemay's fault that earlier writers had killed off Liz's son Bill, who could have fathered a separate branch of the family).

 

Russ did eventually leave, but he had a major storyline with Sharlene first, and it was logical that he might want to leave town after that experience. John Randolph died late in Lemay's tenure to provide a major event to kick off the expansion to 90 minutes, but John's affair with Barbara, his divorce from Pat, and his relationship with Olive were all significant storylines before that time.

 

Yes, he brought in all those Frames (as Liz would say), which rewrote Steve's history. I'd say that Sharlene, Willis, and Janice were all successful characters; Vince, and Molly Ordway less so, but remember that Lemay had to populate the 60-minute show, and so it was his prerogative to bring in a new family which would provide a contrast to the upper-middle class characters already on the canvas. But I don't feel like the Matthewses were really phased out until after Lemay left. They were eventually replaced by the Loves and the Mackinnons (and the first 1980-ish attempt at a new family - does anyone remember the Halloways?).

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15 minutes ago, BuckyB12 said:

I don't feel like the Matthewses were really phased out until after Lemay left. They were eventually replaced by the Loves and the Mackinnons (and the first 1980-ish attempt at a new family - does anyone remember the Halloways?).

Lots of historic families were phased out over the years - The Hobsons, The Delaneys, and The Perinis to name a few, somehow the phasing out of The Matthews meant more to soap history-files, but I agree that neither Jim nor Mary were particularly intriguing characters and if only Aunt Liz survived, they picked the strongest member of that team.

Edited by j swift

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Well, Another World was almost entirely about the Matthews family for its first decade, which is why people didn't like them being wiped out. But the expansions of the 1970s required new characters all over daytime. Does anyone resent GL's Spauldings as much as they resent the Frames (both families were created for the same reason)? And with Aunt Liz around until 1992, (and later additions like Olivia and Josie, and Russ's brief return) it wasn't quite like the total eradication of Y&R's original Brooks family.

 

The other families you mentioned were all much smaller and intended to be less-permanent. Joey and Rose Perrini were given to Angie for a family when AW expanded to 90 minutes (though they had been Ada's offscreen next-door neighbors for years). I don't think anyone expected Gail Brown's Clarice Hobson to stay around as long as she did (probably not even her), and though Lemay brought in her father Charlie, her brothers Denny and Leigh didn't arrive until the 80s. The Delaneys were a family on Somerset, but only Robert came to AW. His marriage to Lenore didn't last. and he left town after his engagement to Iris ended. I actually don't recall much being made of the fact that Cory Hobson was Robert's son in later years, and I don't think Cory was ever SORASed.

Edited by BuckyB12

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15 hours ago, Chris B said:

I never watched this show when it was on or during the SOAPnet or AOL/Hulu reruns. I tried here and there but it never caught my eye like other soaps. I did watch the AOL reruns of Texas where I fell in love with Iris. I decided to buy Harding Lemay’s book and now I am so obsessed with this world which is a shame since his material isn’t even available lol. 

 

I did find some 70s scenes between Alice and Steve and I agree with his assessment of Jacqueline Courtney but I found the actor playing Steve to be terrible. I also loved the snippets in the book about the actress who played Mary. How do y’all feel about her being written out? I think it’s a shame she let her ego get the best of her because I’m sure he would’ve wrote great things for her. I’m not sure what she expected by refusing to read the lines as intended. 

 

All the talk of Ada and Rachel and Mac has me wanting to explore Another World, even if it isn’t the stuff Lemay wrote! Looks like an interesting show with quite the backstory. 

 talented or not... AW's loss became OLTL's gain since Courtney and to lesser account that actor playing Steve helped OLTL with a ratings increase... even Courtney's brief return to AW in the mid 80s helped bump the ratings up a bit.  In any work place conflict, everyone shares blame.... and I think Lemay's ego actually did in the show in the long run.

 

The Matthews family was to AW what the Hughes family was to ATWT and the Bauer family was to GL... the tentpole family.  When the Frames/Snyders/Lewis families took center stage at the expense of those tentpole families.. ratings fell.  

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