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Wasn't it implied/stated that Rachel was the first woman he actually fell in love with (the rest being casual relationships)

and Doug Watson insisted Mac never say 'I love you' to any other woman than Rachel.

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1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

Wasn't it implied/stated that Rachel was the first woman he actually fell in love with (the rest being casual relationships)

and Doug Watson insisted Mac never say 'I love you' to any other woman than Rachel.

That makes me feel sorry for his first wife Emily who was kind enough to raise the child he had with another woman.

 

Upon reflection neither Sylvie (Iris's mother) nor Maria Hernandez DeSilva (Paulina's mother, again probably not a blond; pseudo-appalling) were actually hookers but Mac's relationships with both seemed temporal.

 

As I recall the limo incident, Mac had a habit of gifting women who he dated a certain bracelet.  When Rachel saw the bracelet in the back of the car she assumed it was hers.  Then, when she went to put it away she saw that it was not her bracelet, she put two and two together and figured out that this was Mac's move to get the ladies.  That's some good Lemay stuff.  Neither played dumb, nobody went nuts and nobody kidnapped each other.  It was just Ada getting a chance to say that all men are dogs (essentially) and Iris got a dig in about how many bracelets like that her father has given away.  It also knocked Rachel off her game because she assumed after Steve and Alice that she wouldn't have to compete for Mac's attention.  She told him that and that was the basis of their relationship.

 

It's a long way from a Sin Stalker who kills women for being too slutty... 

Edited by j swift

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has anyone ever asked/answered if Victoria Love-Hudson the character name was inspired by Victoria Wyndham the actress's name?

 

Also, thinking back, what was Vicky's original plan to swindle Marley?  I remember she wanted Jake to seduce Marley, but what good would that do them to get money? 

 

Did Vicky know that they were sisters or did she just think it was a coincidence that they looked alike?  I remember the scene when Donna told them that they were her twins but did they already know that they were sisters?

 

I guess the whole integration of Vicky into the Love family happened pretty quickly after she donated her kidney to Marley that I've forgotten the details of her original con (just like the writers forgot that Vicky had donated her kidney later when she was pregnant and in two comas). However, I vividly recall the cliffhanger when Jake got back to the motel after spending the day with Marley, and a vixen look-a-like turned around and said, "It's about time."

 

Around the same time, it's funny that Peter Love was introduced as a lawyer at Cory Publishing who was interested in Sally.  Until Donna came on a few months later,  one would never predict that actually he was from a rich family, with three glamorous sisters, and huge estate next door to the Cory's.  Also, when he later worked for his father Reg he was always depicted as a bit of a screw-up in business, so its odd that he trained under Mac.

Edited by j swift

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21 hours ago, j swift said:

Not quite, Mac didn't live in Bay City when Rachel got pregnant by Steve with Jamie so, Paulina could have been younger or the same age.  She would have to be older than Matt or Amanda because they sprouted on screen while Mac lived in Bay City.

 

While I've never tried to imagine Iris's age (because a gentleman wouldn't do such a thing) Sandy and Jamie were played around the same age in the early 1980's when Sandy was introduced.  Jamie never grew any older after that; he stayed perennially in his early 30's throughout the 80's and 90's which allowed his original SORASing to catch up with him in a 'Benjamin Button' sort of way.  Paulina could have been born in South America at any time between when Mac slept with Sandy's mom in Nevada up until he came to Bay City (BTW I am psuedo-appalled in retrospect that 'Paulina from the Rain Forrest' was always played by a blond actress).

 

Any way, when Mac first dated Rachel he was a very sexual being.  He had an impulsive tryst in the back of his limousine and, when Rachel found out, his rather sophisticated defense was that they weren't exclusive sexual partners at the time. Ada even told Rachel that unless she locked Mac down he would see other women.  His eye would often wonder while at the Cory Complex.  However, there is an interesting thread between all of Mac's illegitimate children, there were illusions that the mothers were all some how involved in the sex industry.  Iris's biological mother was a hooker which is why Mac's wife adopted her, Sandy was an escort (and I think his mother was also a hooker), and Paulina's mother wasn't a hooker but that relationship was never portrayed as romantic.  So, even though Mac could date anyone he wanted, he also paid for something extra on the side...  

You are indeed correct.  I was thinking Mac was around when James Frame was born but he was not. I never liked the idea of introducing Paulina as another sibling it was just overkill after a long lost child (Sandy) and the whole Iris situation.  I also found it funny all the actresses to play Iris were also the same age to Mac in real life..  haha

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Also a silly question but, if Rachel named her youngest son who was born in jail after her first husband's family who were going to take care of him would his name have been Matt Matthews?

 

Also, AW's subplot about a radical father's rights group during this period was nuts.

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On 8/15/2018 at 11:57 AM, j swift said:

 

Also, thinking back, what was Vicky's original plan to swindle Marley?  I remember she wanted Jake to seduce Marley, but what good would that do them to get money? 

 

Did Vicky know that they were sisters or did she just think it was a coincidence that they looked alike?  I remember the scene when Donna told them that they were her twins but did they already know that they were sisters?

 

I guess the whole integration of Vicky into the Love family happened pretty quickly after she donated her kidney to Marley that I've forgotten the details of her original con (just like the writers forgot that Vicky had donated her kidney later when she was pregnant and in two comas). However, I vividly recall the cliffhanger when Jake got back to the motel after spending the day with Marley, and a vixen look-a-like turned around and said, "It's about time."

 

 

Vicky knew that she was Marley's twin but Marley didn't know Vic existed. Vicky's plan was IIRC that she would impersonate Marley long enough to get access to Marley's inheritance when she turned 18. Jake was supposed to keep Marley away from home while Vicky accomplished her plan but then Marley got sick so she had to be admitted to the hospital for treatment. And the donation was bone marrow, not kidney.

 

She didn't really want Jake to seduce Marley -- she wanted him to make up to her so that Marley would trust him. Jake was Vicky's lover. She was bitterly jealous when he actually liked Marley.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Xanthe said:

Vicky knew that she was Marley's twin but Marley didn't know Vic existed. Vicky's plan was IIRC that she would impersonate Marley long enough to get access to Marley's inheritance when she turned 18

I went back to read the anniversary book to catch up on the story: 

 

Donna had the twins.  Reg took them away.  He gave Vicky to Bridget to arrange an adoption with a family in Lassiter who died 16 years later, and kept Marley to raise as Donna's sister.  When Bridget found out that Marley was going to inherit 22 million dollars on her 18th birthday she felt it was unfair and told Victoria that they were twins.  Then Vicky, Bridget, and Jake went to Bay City.  Vicky impersonated Marley and learned she had a "blood disease", later that day Perry found out that she was impersonating Marley fell, and died.   Vicky then came out to Donna and Marley, they had to tell Marley she had a fatal "blood disease", then Vicky agreed to the transplant that would save Marley.  However, by the time they tuned 18, Carl stole the family's money and neither twin got the cash.

 

Talk about yadda, yadda, yadda-ing a story! 

 

1. Wasn't Donna's mother already dead/ran off; wouldn't people ask how Reg had a baby on his own?  If Donna's mother wasn't dead in the OG timeline why did she let Reg lock their daughter in the basement?  Wouldn't Mary and the other household staff still have to cook and clean for Donna?  Why was splitting up the twins a solution to the problem; why not just send them both away?

 

2. Bridget starts out as calculating and manipulative of Donna then, for no reason, she becomes nice and is OK being a maid/nanny for the rest of her life; even staying on when Donna lost her money and couldn't pay her salary.  Why did Bridget stay in Lassiter for 16 years?  Certainly Vicky's parents in Lassiter couldn't afford a nanny for all that time?  Why wasn't anyone ever angry at Bridget for her part in the scheme? Everyone is mad at Donna but Bridget is much closer to blame than an 18-year-old pregnant girl who was held captive by her father in the basement for six months.  

 

3. Perry's death is out of the blue, and then never discussed again.  Nobody ever knew that Vicky saw Perry die.

 

Many people on this board like to play "fantasy network executive" but, clearly, I would be terrible because I would constantly demand explanations for each illogical part of a story.

Edited by j swift

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Wait, so Donna just went along with Marley being raised as her sister and Vicky being given away? I've got OLTL on the brain, I guess I always assumed it was like Viki and Meagan and she was drugged/hypnotized. I do know about the infamous scene of hospital hysteria and the three pillows ("Triplets!!!"), not sure if that was a flashback?

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2 hours ago, SFK said:

Wait, so Donna just went along with Marley being raised as her sister and Vicky being given away? I've got OLTL on the brain, I guess I always assumed it was like Viki and Meagan and she was drugged/hypnotized. I do know about the infamous scene of hospital hysteria and the three pillows ("Triplets!!!"), not sure if that was a flashback?

 

Donna went along with Marley being raised as her sister (because the Love family's reputation could not support publicly acknowledging a baby born out of wedlock to a teenager, and the alternative would have been not getting to keep her baby at all). She didn't know/remember that there was a second baby.

 

The scene with the three pillows where she repeated "my baby" was one where she was having a mental breakdown before being carted off to some kind of institution. (It was Anna Stuart's last scene and then she came out of the hospital after a little while as Philece Sampler.) Reginald had shown her a photograph of her and her newborn babies (after his henchwoman had been suspiciously serving her presumably drugged tea) and she went into a tailspin. We didn't see the photograph and there was a lot of speculation at the time that the photo had revealed that there were triplets, but when the alleged photograph was eventually revealed it was of John Hudson holding two babies. There was no explanation for how (even assuming that Reginald had made arrangements for John to pose for a photograph with Donna's newborns without revealing his entire evil plan to give away one and raise the other as Donna's sister) such a photograph could even remotely be considered evidence that John might be the father of Donna's children which was part of Philece Sampler's Donna's anxiety when they retroactively introduced the idea that John had raped (well not *really* raped because how do you build a love triangle on that, I mean how could Donna possibly have known whether she was raped, it's not up to her to decide this when we're trying to present John as a character with redeeming features, Donna probably really wanted it but she knew it was bad because Michael was her boyfriend) Donna before she slept with Michael. I guess the most charitable interpretation is that Reginald intentionally sent her mad by letting her know that he knew that John could have been the father of Marley and Victoria, and that the photograph itself was a fake. But before they turned it into the John Hudson story it seemed very likely that there would be a triplet and that triplet would turn out to be Scott Lasalle who had been raised in South America as Marissa/Mary's adopted son.

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On 11/21/2014 at 8:04 PM, Shannie said:

Are there any John and Felicia fans here? I loved them together!!! I never saw the whole storyline other than what's on youtube. Does anyone have any episodes to buy or trade or post? I would love to see more!!! Thanks. tongue.png

I loved John & Felicia together. Felicia fought the feelings for John in the beginning-breaking off during the kiss, making him call Sharlene...but that dang ice storm got the best of them!!   I thought they had great chemistry especially in the episode when John was a bartender @ Tops & he was giving Felicia advice after a big fight with Mitch.  It was Christmas time  & John was bah humbug & she took him shopping for ornaments & John said he hasn’t had a Christmas tree since Vietnam so Felicia took over & immediately went in search of a tree-they decorated this stick of a tree on John’s boat.  It was a very sweet scene. I think it was on December 14, 1987.  

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On 2/8/2015 at 10:50 AM, Melroser said:

I think Lucas should have been Felicia's endgame, especially with Lorna around but they killed him off too soon! Trying to bring his look-a-like Nikolas on was lame. They should have just kept Lucas. I thought Dano and Aprea had very good chemistry and maybe the show realized their mistake and that's why we had Nikolas but it was too late.

 

I could not stand Stacey and Michael. I was never a big fan of Michael's to begin with but when he and Stacey got together I hated him even more. I thought Stacey (with Hilary Edson) was a complete waste on AW. Her pairings with Derek and then Michael were boring and seemed pointless. The only time I enjoyed Stacey was around Jamie's orbit when she had rivalry scenes with Vicky.

I couldn’t agree more.  Felicia was the all time lover of love and she gave 110% to her friends and those around her and to end up with Sergei was a disgrace!!  I think the writers totally messed up the whole Lucas storyline. After being separated for all those years, being lied to by by Fanny’s family and losing their daughter they finally reunite and get married and then fight every single day and throw in Sally and that true soul mate love is reduced to jealousy, etc.   I would have given anything If the writers would have made Lucas like Alexander-how he was visibly in love with Felicia in every scene (until that whole bury Rachel Alice thing-LOL)!! The chemistry was hot, hot, hot!!!

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On 2/8/2015 at 5:05 AM, DRW50 said:

Felicia was very much like the radio soap heroines in that everyone (aside from Cass) came and went from her life while she stayed still. Dano's old school soap acting played into that. I think it helped make the character stand out.

 

Of all her relationships, I liked Mitch the best.

Felicia believed in Mitch all along and helped him believe in himself.  Their love was the real deal and little by little you see Mitch becoming confident and successful.  Her love made him a better person & father.  All Rachel ever did was use Mitch and throw him away.  She was jealous of Felicia and after Mac died she went after Mitch all the while shaming anyone who had the audacity to say she was depending on Mitch too much.  She would go to Felicia’s and look her in the eye and claim nothing was going on, they were just friends and then leave with a guilty smirk on her face.  She reminded Felicia that she & Mitch were close and there was nothing Felicia could do about it...insert knife twisting in F’s back!!  Rachel scolded Amanda for saying something was going on with Mitch & turn around and say Mac was all she ever wanted.  And after all the drama with hurting Felicia she moves out of town away from Mitch but damed if she could get the motel door open fast enough when Mitch knocked!! In some scenes she pledges that she & Mitch shared a great love and then in another scene say she only slept with M to help save Mac.  Idk.  It made me crazy when F would say she couldn’t even hate Rachel because she lost Mac and she would back down when she & M would fight.  Leaving F on their anniversary & on Christmas woulda landed his clothes off the balcony of the Love Tower!!!  Unless I missed some episodes she just looked over it all and remained friends with Rachel!!! Crazy, just crazy!!

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9 hours ago, j swift said:

1. Wasn't Donna's mother already dead/ran off; wouldn't people ask how Reg had a baby on his own?  If Donna's mother wasn't dead in the OG timeline why did she let Reg lock their daughter in the basement?  Wouldn't Mary and the other household staff still have to cook and clean for Donna?  Why was splitting up the twins a solution to the problem; why not just send them both away?

 

2. Bridget starts out as calculating and manipulative of Donna then, for no reason, she becomes nice and is OK being a maid/nanny for the rest of her life; even staying on when Donna lost her money and couldn't pay her salary.  Why did Bridget stay in Lassiter for 16 years?  Certainly Vicky's parents in Lassiter couldn't afford a nanny for all that time?  Why wasn't anyone ever angry at Bridget for her part in the scheme? Everyone is mad at Donna but Bridget is much closer to blame than an 18-year-old pregnant girl who was held captive by her father in the basement for six months.  

 

3. Perry's death is out of the blue, and then never discussed again.  Nobody ever knew that Vicky saw Perry die.

 

 

Donna's mother was supposedly in Europe during her pregnancy with Marley, I believe. I think people in Bay City were supposed to believe that Donna was with her. When they layered on the story of Reginald and Mary/Marissa that really did limit the window in which Reginald could maintain control of Donna in Marley's early years, but even before that I think they wrote it that Donna's father had died when Marley was still very young.

 

Bridget was calculating only in the sense that her allegiance was to Victoria. Once Victoria was accepted as a member of the Love household she was loyal to the Love family. The Carsons (Victoria's adoptive parents) had supposedly been rich long enough to employ Bridget. By the time they died Bridget was emotionally invested in Victoria and therefore stayed with her even though the money was gone.

 

I don't think Bridget was (at least originally, before Reginald) supposed to have known that Reginald was separating twins without Donna's knowledge or consent. If the family didn't want the baby and Bridget was making sure that the baby was well cared-for then she wasn't to blame for taking her away. And when Victoria revealed herself in time for the bone marrow donation she had a fake story about where she had been raised that didn't include Bridget.

 

I'm not sure what you mean about Perry's death being out of the blue. It was a sudden tragic accident, but the setup was there in that Perry had been suspicious of Jake and Bridget and was trying to find out what they were up to. Victoria arranged to meet him in the stables as Marley but when he wasn't taken in by her impersonation she told him that she was Marley's twin and just wanted her fair share. He refused to believe that she was a legit twin and insisted that she must be a scam artist who had had plastic surgery, and accidentally fell. Victoria spent quite a while worried that someone would find out that she had been there, and Nancy in particular was suspicious -- but when the Loves were so kind and generous to her (Marley voluntarily splitting her trust fund), Vicky eventually admitted to them that she had been in the hayloft when Perry died. (However she did lie and tell them a version in which Perry had been totally fine with her as Marley's twin, not that he had been threatening to expose her as an imposter.) Since Victoria hadn't killed Perry, just been present when he fell, there wasn't really anything more to it. I don't remember whether Carl ever found out -- he was into all the Egypt/Arizona/Chapin stuff at the time, and Nancy was dependent on Ecstasy and falling in love with Chris Chapin.

 

 

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Today I'm fascinated by Jerry Grove.  I was a fan of this period of AW simply because it was available to me every day at lunch.  Looking back, Jerry was such an intriguing character.  He was recast three times in two years.  He had the silly kind of soap opera psychosis where it comes and goes; at convenient times for the plot.  It seems like there was an attempt to redeem him but, once the recasting never worked, they abandoned him.  It was also a dangerous period for the women of Bay City, they were often being sexually victimized.

 

@Xanthe, here's two weird details from the anniversary book - 1. Reginald believed that he hadn't fathered either Donna or Nicole when he locked Donna in the basement.  2. When Nicole left the first time (after being a model and getting hooked on drugs by Ted Bancroft) she was going to go to  medical school (I guess they just totally dropped that thread when she came back as a fashion designer).

 

For voting purposes, I was a Felicia and Lucas fan.  I liked that they were forming the nucleus of a new family and the history involved in their story.  Although, I think it is silly when childhood sweethearts randomly find each other in anther town years later.  I was not fan of Felicia and John because I don't see Felicia as ever being willing to be second fiddle in a love triangle.  She had written enough romance novels to know how that relationship would end.  I liked Zane purely for the romance of the story.  I did not Alexander because it felt like his motives were never clear and I don't even remember how that story ended.

1 hour ago, Soapy24 said:

All Rachel ever did was use Mitch and throw him away.

I agree completely.  I never thought about it until you brought it up but Rachel barely knew Mitch.  She met him in St Croix, they did it, he goes on the run, gets shot, gets amnesia, yadda yadda.  Rachel and Mitch were passionate lovers but they weren't very intimate. 

Edited by j swift

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