1 hour ago, chrisml said:

When I think about it, Monty is really responsible for destroying a lot of daytime because soaps spent decades trying to replicate the formula of GH's success even when it didn't fi their show and alienated their viewers. They saw GH's model as the only way to attract viewers.

I totally agree. I think Monty was one of the worst things that ever happened to daytime. 

5 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I wish I could remember the quote Claire Labine gave about half-hour soaps. I think she was right on the money. Some days I even prefer 15 minute soaps, as I think the GL and Search available from the mid '60s had perfected the format. 

Some writers could excel in the hour format, like Marland (and probably Bill Bell, among others), as they used the time for more introspection, but you have to have a strong core to do so. 

I haven't been able to see most of AW's first years at an hour, but from synopses and Lemay's book I get the impression they just decided to start amping up the melodrama until they could barely take it much further. 

One of the reasons shows like AMC seemed to do fine moving to an hour was because of that strong core and also because they had a number of quirky, entertaining characters, like Erica or Phoebe (and a few years later, Opal). They also had many strongly defined characters.

When I try to watch AW episodes from 1980 the longstanding cast members are still worth watching, but the show itself is so drab due to many of the newer arrivals and the general malaise. Even people who are great on other soaps. Of the newer hires Richard Bekins, Laura Malone and Susan Keith are among the few who don't get caught in drudgery.

I don't know if AW really manages to make the hour format easier to get through until Cass, Felicia, Donna, etc. arrive.

Oh yes, the 15-minute episodes of TGL and SFT that we are fortunate to have access to were wonderful examples of soap opera storytelling! My only "beef" about the short format was that 15 minutes seemed to go by in the blink of an eye, leaving me wanting more. Nowadays, I realize that wanting to see more is infinitely better than becoming impatient with extraneous scenes, filler dialogue, and uninteresting newbies, and hoping for the episodes to hurry up and end already.

A few writers like Douglas Marland, Pat Falken Smith, William J. Bell (after a rough start when Y&R transitioned to an hour), Claire Labine (at GH), Nancy Curlee (at TGL), etc., rose to the challenge of keeping their 60-minute shows successful, but who knows if the quality would have lasted long-term? More writers of the hour-long soap format haven't been up to the task (IMHO) than those who have succeeded. Burn-out happens to even the best of scribes. I'll generally stick with a favorite show, at least for a while, through weaker periods, but only if the core characters whom I care about remain front and center. If the writing deteriorates AND much of the core cast is gutted (AW in 1975, TGL in 1983/84, Y&R when it went to an hour, etc.), my loyalty and interest dissipate.

I remember one excruciating scene on the expanded AW in which characters were discussing ordering chairs or something for a warehouse. It felt like it went on forever. UGH. No, thank you. I'd rather watch paint dry.

4 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

The irony of her lamenting that daytime is becoming larger-than-life in front of Glory Monty. 

Susan Sullivan seems to enjoy discussing her daytime experience in this interview.  And she seems rather knowledgeable about the genre.  This is at the peak of her primetime success, yet she actually says she prefers the format of the daytime drama.  Imagine that!!

And a couple of her interactions with Gloria Monty seem a bit bristly (on Monty's part).  Susan is joyfully discussing her experience in daytime pre-1975, and Monty retorts by defending her "new" vision for soap opera.  Susan doesn't even seem to notice, and goes on talking about how great soap operas "used to be."   LOL.  I bet Monty was boiling!!   

2 hours ago, chrisml said:

When I think about it, Monty is really responsible for destroying a lot of daytime because soaps spent decades trying to replicate the formula of GH's success even when it didn't fi their show and alienated their viewers. They saw GH's model as the only way to attract viewers.

Practically every show in the 1980s jumped on the action/adventure/supercouple bandwagon. It worked for some but not for others.

1 hour ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

I think Monty was one of the worst things that ever happened to daytime. 

Even more so than James Reilly at Days?

4 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

The irony of her lamenting that daytime is becoming larger-than-life in front of Glory Monty. 

Exactly. Gloria Monty and the crap she foisted onto daytime (romanticized rapists, serial-killing heartthrobs, science fiction idiocy) precipitated the destruction of the soap genre.

2 hours ago, Efulton said:

Thank you!  Your comments are consistent with what I have heard from others who watched from the beginning.  Now we just need to find those episodes for the marathon!

Alas, most of the eps from the 1960s and 1970s are lost forever, but at least we do have some surviving gems on video and audio. Beggars can't be choosers. I'm so glad I kept the 10th anniversary of AW and eventually sent it to Eddie Drueding of the AW Home Page. Since he uploaded it there, it's been available to everyone and safe from tape deterioration!

2 hours ago, chrisml said:

When I think about it, Monty is really responsible for destroying a lot of daytime because soaps spent decades trying to replicate the formula of GH's success even when it didn't fi their show and alienated their viewers. They saw GH's model as the only way to attract viewers.

Hear, hear! The stuff Monty introduced to GH in the early 1980s temporarily ignited a flurry of attention among young viewers, but their interest didn't prove to be long-lasting, and the gimmicks like freezing the world, extra terrestrials, etc., turned off dedicated and life-long members of the audience.

1 hour ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

I totally agree. I think Monty was one of the worst things that ever happened to daytime. 

Gloria Monty and Paul Rauch!

15 minutes ago, Tisy-Lish said:

And a couple of her interactions with Gloria Monty seem a bit bristly (on Monty's part).  Susan is joyfully discussing her experience in daytime pre-1975, and Monty retorts by defending her "new" vision for soap opera.  Susan doesn't even seem to notice, and goes on talking about how great soap operas "used to be."   LOL.  I bet Monty was boiling!!   

When paired with writers who understood soaps and the audience (like Douglas Marland and Pat Falken Smith) Gloria could be a fine producer. The technical aspects of her GH were good. But in less-competent writing hands, Monty proved that she just did not "get" the heart and soul of soaps, and ended up reaping great damage onto the medium.

7 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Even more so than James Reilly at Days?

He was a destructive force as well. 

34 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Practically every show in the 1980s jumped on the action/adventure/supercouple bandwagon. It worked for some but not for others.

Even more so than James Reilly at Days?

There would have been no James Reillly on Days, if not for Monty's work at GH.  

36 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Practically every show in the 1980s jumped on the action/adventure/supercouple bandwagon. It worked for some but not for others.

We are in agreement here, except for your inclusion of super-couples.  Super-couples on soaps existed long before Monty went to GH.  NBC had at least three super-couples in the 1970s -- Alice/Steve, Doug/Julie, and Mac/Rachel.  And possibly a couple of more -- Steve/Carolee and Bill/Laura. Also, ABC had Tara/Phil and Cliff/Nina before Monty invaded GH.  

But aside from that, I agree with you.

3 hours ago, chrisml said:

The amount of times soap producers justified raping characters is just insane. You would think it would be a man, but nope, the women are just as sexist and offensive. To keep this AW related, it's one reason I decided to stop with my AW rewatch. I'd gotten up to where Marley was going to be raped and I was not going to watch the storyline again. The whole thing felt cruel and unnecessary at the time, and I'm less patient with stuff like that now.

 

When I think about it, Monty is really responsible for destroying a lot of daytime because soaps spent decades trying to replicate the formula of GH's success even when it didn't fi their show and alienated their viewers. They saw GH's model as the only way to attract viewers.

I don't buy that Monty caused the destruction of daytime.  She managed to figure out how to save a show from the brink of cancellation.. and the ratings were sky high in the early 80s on GH.  

I think what really destroyed daytime was a variety of factors such as cable, more people working outside the home, the OJ Simpson trial, and the final nail was actually Reilly when he did the Marlena possession story (ratings increased.. but only for a short few years).

In terms of AW, I think the issues involving their decline was partly due to the 90 minute expansion, losing Iris to a spin off, writing bland stories, and casting non descript performers.

23 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

I don't buy that Monty caused the destruction of daytime.  She managed to figure out how to save a show from the brink of cancellation.. and the ratings were sky high in the early 80s on GH.  

I've never equated large audience numbers with artistic excellence.  In any genre. 

Edited August 16Aug 16 by Reverend Ruthledge

38 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

I don't buy that Monty caused the destruction of daytime.  She managed to figure out how to save a show from the brink of cancellation.. and the ratings were sky high in the early 80s on GH.  

I think what really destroyed daytime was a variety of factors such as cable, more people working outside the home, the OJ Simpson trial, and the final nail was actually Reilly when he did the Marlena possession story (ratings increased.. but only for a short few years).

In terms of AW, I think the issues involving their decline was partly due to the 90 minute expansion, losing Iris to a spin off, writing bland stories, and casting non descript performers.

Monty saved GH. She create a phenomenon, and I'm not going to take away from that. However, she also created a monster in that all the soaps chased that monster over and over again.  The other soaps made decisions in the hopes of becoming the next GH by following her formula rather than honoring their own shows and their audiences.  As an example, I remember when AW  did the rain forest storyline that there was criticism in the press that AW was trying to copy GH's formula a decade plus later. 

Yes, there are significant events that killed daytime besides GM, but I think Monty's GH did a lot of damage. AW did a lot of self-sabotage from what people more knowledgeable about the show have said when they switched to 90 minutes and then started on their merry-go-round of writers. 

 

1 hour ago, kalbir said:

Practically every show in the 1980s jumped on the action/adventure/supercouple bandwagon. It worked for some but not for others.

Even more so than James Reilly at Days?

I think the soaps in some ways still chased the GH formula as long as they could even into the 2000's (possibly even longer). I'm not too knowledgeable about the last ten years or so. 

It was also the excessive quest to find the next teen storyline--looking for the young demographic that would be the next Luke and Laura. 

Edited August 16Aug 16 by chrisml

Did Gloria Monty destroy daytime?  Frankly, I don't think so.  All she was trying to do was save a dying show (GH).  It's not her fault that TPTB at other shows decided to replicate her formula.  In fact, I'm not 100% sure, but I think I read somewhere years ago a quote from Gloria Monty where she said it was never her intention for the rest of daytime to follow her lead, only to think outside the proverbial box, because audiences were savvier than in years past and didn't want to watch the same-old boring stuff.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

Did Gloria Monty destroy daytime?  Frankly, I don't think so.  All she was trying to do was save a dying show (GH).  It's not her fault that TPTB at other shows decided to replicate her formula.  In fact, I'm not 100% sure, but I think I read somewhere years ago a quote from Gloria Monty where she said it was never her intention for the rest of daytime to follow her lead, only to think outside the proverbial box, because audiences were savvier than in years past and didn't want to watch the same-old boring stuff.

What is ironic is when Gloria Monty returned to General Hospital she went back to the roots of soaps by introducing the middle-class Eckert family, and returned to traditional soap telling

Ratings plummeted and Monty found herself getting the boot. 

I saw somebody say they used the AW fan bench as fire wood and I nearly spit out my coffee.

Did Wesley Addy ever play the role of Jim Matthews?  He seems to have played many roles on many soap operas. So his name is familiar to me.