14 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

You are correct. Susan Sullivan was definitely playing Lenore by the time Walter Curtin died.

The scene with Lenore being so traumatized by the whole Walter debacle that she went berserk and tore apart her living room was chilling!

I believe there is (or was) audio of this scene (or at least part of the scene) on YouTube. I listened to it a couple of times, but the sounds quality is not the best.  So it just sounded like two people screaming at one another.  Sadly, it was difficult for the listener to make-out the words.  

When online fans reminisce about Lemay's greatest scenes, this scene is never mentioned.  Perhaps because it was so early in Lemay's tenure, and so few of today's fans actually remember it.  I remember my mother telling me, it was a whopper!!

Is the script for this episode available anywhere online??   That would be an interesting read.   

7 minutes ago, Tisy-Lish said:

I believe there is (or was) audio of this scene (or at least part of the scene) on YouTube. I listened to it a couple of times, but the sounds quality is not the best.  So it just sounded like two people screaming at one another.  Sadly, it was difficult for the listener to make-out the words.  

When online fans reminisce about Lemay's greatest scenes, this scene is never mentioned.  Perhaps because it was so early in Lemay's tenure, and so few of today's fans actually remember it.  I remember my mother telling me, it was a whopper!!

Is the script for this episode available anywhere online??   That would be an interesting read.   

Actually, it's curious, but I have never heard fans reminisce about this particular scene either. I've also never heard anyone talk about the memorable scene in which Jim Matthews told Mary that Rachel's baby was Steve Frame's and not Russ'. The normally staid matriarch of the Matthews family went berserk and shrieked, "I hate her! I HATE HER!" It made my blood run cold.

As you say, probably most fans are too young to have seen the golden moments of the 1960s and '70s play out.

I may be wrong, but I don't believe scripts from that era are on-line.

2 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Actually, it's curious, but I have never heard fans reminisce about this particular scene either. I've also never heard anyone talk about the memorable scene in which Jim Matthews told Mary that Rachel's baby was Steve Frame's and not Russ'. The normally staid matriarch of the Matthews family went berserk and shrieked, "I hate her! I HATE HER!" It made my blood run cold.

As you say, probably most fans are too young to have seen the golden moments of the 1960s and '70s play out.

I may be wrong, but I don't believe scripts from that era are on-line.

What I would give to be able to watch May 4, 1964 through December 31, 1979.

44 minutes ago, Efulton said:

What I would give to be able to watch May 4, 1964 through December 31, 1979.

I watched the show (or audio-taped episodes of it when I couldn't be home) up until 1975. I thought the first few years were uneven, but then AW really took off in late 1965 when Agnes Nixon came aboard as headwriter. After she left at the end of 1968 or early 1969, I felt her replacement Robert Cenedella's material (he wrote from 1969 to 1971) became a little too plot heavy and not character-driven enough for me, although it was still watchable. Then Harding Lemay took over in 1971 and his forte was character delineation and interpersonal relationships, so I enjoyed his initial work thoroughly. I believe Nixon and Lemay were the very best writers in AW's history.

A lot has been said and written about the contentious backstage goings-on behind the scenes in the mid 1970s. After the show went to an hour in 1975, I personally felt there was too much repetitious dialogue and "filler material," and a noticeable lessening in quality, but I continued to tune in, figuring that TPTB were just working out the logistics of filming an hour-long episode five days a week. Then we lost four major stars before the end of the year, and the focus and the tone of the show shifted too much for my liking.

I would happily join you for a marathon watch party of episodes from the debut to the end of 1975, however!

(To be fair, while I was disappointed in what I considered a drop in AW's quality in 1975, I guarantee that the show was still miles better than anything soaps have to offer today!)

Edited August 15Aug 15 by vetsoapfan

9 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

After the show went to an hour in 1975, I personally felt there was too much repetitious dialogue and "filler material," and a noticeable lessening in quality, but I continued to tune in, figuring that TPTB were just working out the logistics of filming an hour-long episode five days a week.

I think this is true of all soaps. I just think they worked better as 30 minute shows or even 15 minute shows although I know you felt 15 minutes was too short and I can see that. I just think 60 minutes 5 days a week is just too much. It created a lot of filler, pointless dialogue and extraneous characters that ultimately diminished the core families (Bauers, Hughes, Hortons, Matthews, etc.)

Just now, Reverend Ruthledge said:

I think this is true of all soaps. I just think they worked better as 30 minute shows or even 15 minute shows although I know you felt 15 minutes was too short and I can see that. I just think 60 minutes 5 days a week is just too much. It created a lot of filler, pointless dialogue and extraneous characters that ultimately diminished the focus on the core families (Bauers, Hughes, Hortons, Matthews, etc.)

 

14 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

The scene with Lenore being so traumatized by the whole Walter debacle that she went berserk and tore apart her living room was chilling!

If only Susan Sullivan had had material that good on FALCON CREST.

2 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

I think this is true of all soaps. I just think they worked better as 30 minute shows or even 15 minute shows although I know you felt 15 minutes was too short and I can see that. I just think 60 minutes 5 days a week is just too much. It created a lot of filler, pointless dialogue and extraneous characters that ultimately diminished the core families (Bauers, Hughes, Hortons, Matthews, etc.)

Yes, in retrospect, expanding soaps to an hour a day was a destructive idea. It's a grinding, exhausting schedule that works against TPTB putting out the best-possible product on a long-term basis. There are only so many work hours in a day; only so much you can wring out of a cast and crew.

To be fair, many soaps managed to succeed beautifully in the 60-minute format for a while,  but it never seemed to endure. I do think the 15-minute ones extending to 30 minutes a day ended up working well. To me, this was the ideal length. (And, of course, 90 minutes per day of AW was  a foolish idea from the get-go.)

1 hour ago, Khan said:

If only Susan Sullivan had had material that good on FALCON CREST.

As much as critics have are quick to deride the daytime soaps, I've always found them superior to the primetime ones. AW did give Susan Sullivan better scripts to work with than Falcon Crest! And Lenore Delany didn't die a horrific, fan-alienating death , the way Maggie Gioberti did. What sick, tone-deaf PTB thought that was a good idea to do to the audience?

Edited August 15Aug 15 by vetsoapfan

Susan Sullivan is on this interview programme talking with other actresses (including Genie Francis) about daytime v. nighttime. She discusses how she prefers the daytime way of telling a story. It's around the 4:05 minute mark. 

 

@chrisml, that was really interesting! Thanks for sharing!

30 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

Yes, in retrospect, expanding soaps to an hour a day was a destructive idea. It's a grinding, exhausting schedule that works against TPTB putting out the best-possible product on a long-term basis. There are only so many work hours in a day; only so much you can wring out of a cast and crew.

To be fair, many soaps managed to succeed beautifully in the 60-minute format for a while,  but it never seemed to endure. I do think the 15-minute ones extending to 30 minutes a day ended up working well. To me, this was the ideal length. (And, of course, 90 minutes per day of AW was  a foolish idea from the get-go.)

I wish I could remember the quote Claire Labine gave about half-hour soaps. I think she was right on the money. Some days I even prefer 15 minute soaps, as I think the GL and Search available from the mid '60s had perfected the format. 

Some writers could excel in the hour format, like Marland (and probably Bill Bell, among others), as they used the time for more introspection, but you have to have a strong core to do so. 

I haven't been able to see most of AW's first years at an hour, but from synopses and Lemay's book I get the impression they just decided to start amping up the melodrama until they could barely take it much further. 

One of the reasons shows like AMC seemed to do fine moving to an hour was because of that strong core and also because they had a number of quirky, entertaining characters, like Erica or Phoebe (and a few years later, Opal). They also had many strongly defined characters.

When I try to watch AW episodes from 1980 the longstanding cast members are still worth watching, but the show itself is so drab due to many of the newer arrivals and the general malaise. Even people who are great on other soaps. Of the newer hires Richard Bekins, Laura Malone and Susan Keith are among the few who don't get caught in drudgery.

I don't know if AW really manages to make the hour format easier to get through until Cass, Felicia, Donna, etc. arrive.

1 hour ago, chrisml said:

Susan Sullivan is on this interview programme talking with other actresses (including Genie Francis) about daytime v. nighttime. She discusses how she prefers the daytime way of telling a story. It's around the 4:05 minute mark. 

 

The irony of her lamenting that daytime is becoming larger-than-life in front of Glory Monty. 

3 minutes ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

The irony of her lamenting that daytime is becoming larger-than-life in front of Glory Monty. 

And did Glory really say there are so many people who want to be raped? I know she was joking but...wow. 

15 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

I watched the show (or audio-taped episodes of it when I couldn't be home) up until 1975. I thought the first few years were uneven, but then AW really took off in late 1965 when Agnes Nixon came aboard as headwriter. After she left at the end of 1968 or early 1969, I felt her replacement Robert Cenedella's material (he wrote from 1969 to 1971) became a little too plot heavy and not character-driven enough for me, although it was still watchable. Then Harding Lemay took over in 1971 and his forte was character delineation and interpersonal relationships, so I enjoyed his initial work thoroughly. I believe Nixon and Lemay were the very best writers in AW's history.

A lot has been said and written about the contentious backstage goings-on behind the scenes in the mid 1970s. After the show went to an hour in 1975, I personally felt there was too much repetitious dialogue and "filler material," and a noticeable lessening in quality, but I continued to tune in, figuring that TPTB were just working out the logistics of filming an hour-long episode five days a week. Then we lost four major stars before the end of the year, and the focus and the tone of the show shifted too much for my liking.

I would happily join you for a marathon watch party of episodes from the debut to the end of 1975, however!

(To be fair, while I was disappointed in what I considered a drop in AW's quality in 1975, I guarantee that the show was still miles better than anything soaps have to offer today!)

Thank you!  Your comments are consistent with what I have heard from others who watched from the beginning.  Now we just need to find those episodes for the marathon!

1 hour ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

And did Glory really say there are so many people who want to be raped? I know she was joking but...wow. 

The amount of times soap producers justified raping characters is just insane. You would think it would be a man, but nope, the women are just as sexist and offensive. To keep this AW related, it's one reason I decided to stop with my AW rewatch. I'd gotten up to where Marley was going to be raped and I was not going to watch the storyline again. The whole thing felt cruel and unnecessary at the time, and I'm less patient with stuff like that now.

 

2 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

The irony of her lamenting that daytime is becoming larger-than-life in front of Glory Monty. 

When I think about it, Monty is really responsible for destroying a lot of daytime because soaps spent decades trying to replicate the formula of GH's success even when it didn't fi their show and alienated their viewers. They saw GH's model as the only way to attract viewers.