2 minutes ago, Tonksadora said:

I bit a hole in my tongue! I kid you not. I plan to move on & try grinding my teeth. Most recently I've run into this misplaced hero worship and over-aggrandizement - if you'll pardon me that horrible made-up word - of certain individuals who now think that Tony Geary, the person, and Luke Spencer, the character, have somehow saved all of daytime. Now I understand why this is happening: the GH writers killed off Luke. Fans thought it would be revealed that he was still alive & being kept prisoner on some island fortress & that has NOT happened. Luke is still dead, folks. I don't know why they can't be content with his true "ists" or bests, etc. He's the most famous anti-hero, the best ratings for a wedding, a lovers on the run storyline that will forever keep its place in history, a perm like no other, a legendary paycheck with 10 weeks off every summer, etc. I give him his due. But he is not the most important person in all of soapdom.

Fortunately Agnes Nixon was well rewarded by her industry! Not all of her industry because there's the Brian Frons's & Anne Sweeney's & Megan McTavish'es of this world who had no better sense than to be opposing Ms. Nixon. ABC did her very wrong by pushing her away & then when the show got into trouble, bringing her back in & rinse & repeat.

Over aggrandizement and hero worship: yes. This succinctly describes the problem. And it is the worst among commentators who do not have full knowledge of or a complete grasp on the subject at hand. They think that their favorites must be the ultimate end-all, be-all actors, writers, producers, whatever, based on their own, personal hero-worship of these individuals.

The devotees of a certain orange-tinged politician come to mind. 🤭

No one actor, no one director, no one producer and no one writer will ever be exclusively responsible for a show becoming popular and surviving. We have all seen soaps survive, and even thrive, after some of their most important/popular team members depart.

Harding Lemay did great work (and made some mistakes) at AW, but that does not mean his reporting about the show's history represent the empirical reality. When Lemay took over the reigns of AW, I don't believe it was because the ratings were terrible under the previous scribe's pen. They weren't.  So I'll focus on the years on quality that he brought to the series, and forgive his self-aggrandizing myths about raising the show's ratings.

By the way, I can't tell you how many youger fans have commented to me over the years, "Jacqueline Courtney was a terrible actress!"

I inwardly roll my eyes, but ask anyway, "Why do you say that?"

"Because Harding Lemay said so."

"Um, okay. What shows of Courtney's did you watch?'

"None. I've never seen more than a few minutes of her work on youtube,  but I agree with Harding Lemay."

"What years of Lemay's work on AW did you see?"

"None, but everybody says he was great, so I know he must have been."

Cue the need to bite my tongue, LOL.

 

22 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Over aggrandizement and hero worship: yes. This succinctly describes the problem. And it is the worst among commentators who do not have full knowledge of or a complete grasp on the subject at hand. They think that their favorites must be the ultimate end-all, be-all actors, writers, producers, whatever, based on their own, personal hero-worship of these individuals.

The devotees of a certain orange-tinged politician come to mind. 🤭

No one actor, no one director, no one producer and no one writer will ever be exclusively responsible for a show becoming popular and surviving. We have all seen soaps survive, and even thrive, after some of their most important/popular team members depart.

Harding Lemay did great work (and made some mistakes) at AW, but that does not mean his reporting about the show's history represent the empirical reality. When Lemay took over the reigns of AW, I don't believe it was because the ratings were terrible under the previous scribe's pen. They weren't.  So I'll focus on the years on quality that he brought to the series, and forgive his self-aggrandizing myths about raising the show's ratings.

By the way, I can't tell you how many youger fans have commented to me over the years, "Jacqueline Courtney was a terrible actress!"

I inwardly roll my eyes, but ask anyway, "Why do you say that?"

"Because Harding Lemay said so."

"Um, okay. What shows of Courtney's did you watch?'

"None. I've never seen more than a few minutes of her work on youtube,  but I agree with Harding Lemay."

"What years of Lemay's work on AW did you see?"

"None, but everybody says he was great, so I know he must have been."

Cue the need to bite my tongue, LOL.

 

i know what you feel, i lost count of how many times i had to bite mine when people throw stones at my two favorite Soap (actually Telenovela) Writers (Manoel Carlos and Gilberto Braga) without seeing more than a handful of scenes, As For Jacquie well unfortunately her Work on AW available on Youtube isn't that flattering, specially because most scenes are from her unsuccessful 1984 return, BUT from The OLTL clips that Got Her that Surfaced Lately I can't deny she was Great

Edited April 26, 20223 yr by Joseph

30 minutes ago, Joseph said:

i know what you feel, i lost count of how many times i had to bite mine when people throw stones at my two favorite Soap (actually Telenovela) Writers without seeing more than a handful of scenes, As For Jacquie well unfortunately her Work on AW available on Youtube isn't that flattering, specially because most scenes are from her unsucsseful 1984 return, BUT from The OLTL clips that Got Her and Surfaced Lately I can't deny she was Great

There are several important scenes available on YT, from Courtney's earlier run on AW. She's seen in eps/scenes from 1968, 1973 and 1974, which show how effective she was an actress. Alas, her return in 1984 was a disaster, but I blame incompetent writing for that. (There was one good scene between Alice and Rachel from her return, however, surrounding Rachel's amnesia.)

Edited April 25, 20223 yr by vetsoapfan

3 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

There are several important scenes available on YT, from Courtney's earlier run on AW. She's seen in eps/scenes from 1968, 1973 and 1974, which show how effective she was an actress. Alas, her return in 1984 was a disaster, but I blame incompetent writing for that. (There was one good scene between Alice and Rachel from her return, however, surrounding Rachel's amnesia.)

would you indicate me those scenes please? also as for OLTL as i think you're a JC fan, you might find it interesting the 1978 episode on the top of the playlist i left on that soap's thread got an scene of Her as PAT'S EVIL TWIN

Edited April 26, 20223 yr by Joseph

2 minutes ago, Joseph said:

would you indicate me those scenes please? also as for OLTL as i think you're a JC fan, you might find it interesting the 1978 episode on the top of the playlist i left on the thread it got an scene as PAT'S EVIL TWIN

Thanks for the link to the OLTL stuff.

From 1968, this material focuses on the wedding of Lenore Moore and Walter Curtin. Courtney appears as Alice.

This clip is erroneously titled as being from 1975 and 1974. It is not. It's from 1973 and 1974.

These are probably Courtney's best scenes from her ill-fated return (particularly the last one with Rachel).

 

34 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

Thanks for the link to the OLTL stuff.

From 1968, this material focuses on the wedding of Lenore Moore and Walter Curtin. Courtney appears as Alice.

This clip is erroneously titled as being from 1975 and 1974. It is not. It's from 1973 and 1974.

These are probably Courtney's best scenes from her ill-fated return (particularly the last one with Rachel).

 

thanks

IDC what anyone says.  I know all about the history of Steve, Alice and Rachel, or at least as much as I could know under the circumstances; and I STILL say having Alice become involved in a May/December relationship with the right actor as Jamie, if told slowly and carefully, would have been FIRE.

56 minutes ago, Khan said:

IDC what anyone says.  I know all about the history of Steve, Alice and Rachel, or at least as much as I could know under the circumstances; and I STILL say having Alice become involved in a May/December relationship with the right actor as Jamie, if told slowly and carefully, would have been FIRE.

Well, Alice had known Jamie since he was born, first as her "nephew" when Russ believed Jamie was his son, and then as her own stepson. I think the "emotional incest" stygma might have prevented her from ever seeing Jamie in a romantic light. I still cringe when I think of Rick/Freddie and Blake/Chrissy hooking up on TGL, because of their step-sibling relationship. Even worse: Craig Montgomery bedding his stepdaughter Dani, whom he took care of as an infant, on ATWT. 🤮

Edited April 26, 20223 yr by vetsoapfan

Extremely idle thought: could the name Mackenzie Cory have been inspired by Macdonald Carey?

On 4/14/2022 at 8:57 AM, Soaplovers said:

If they wanted to put someone famous on the announcement that came from AW...Anne Heche would have been the logical choice since she was doing fairly well in the mainstream at that point.

I've always appreciated the fact that Anne Heche embraces her beginnings in daytime. She's as at home talking about Marley & Vicky as anything else she's done. Some actors like to bury their past in soaps as if they're somehow ashamed of it. But, sometimes it's not the actor who is guarding their bio that way, it's their handlers.

14 hours ago, Khan said:

IDC what anyone says.  I know all about the history of Steve, Alice and Rachel, or at least as much as I could know under the circumstances; and I STILL say having Alice become involved in a May/December relationship with the right actor as Jamie, if told slowly and carefully, would have been FIRE.

 

14 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Well, Alice had known Jamie since he was born, first as her "nephew" when Russ believed Jamie was his son, and then as her own stepson. I think the "emotional incest" stygma might have prevented her from ever seeing Jamie in a romantic light. I still cringe when I think of Rick/Freddie and Blake/Chrissy hooking up on TGL, because of their step-sibling relationship. Even worse: Craig Montgomery bedding his stepdaughter Dani, whom he took care of as an infant, on ATWT. 🤮

I'll Have To Agree with Vet, It would Be as weird and disgusting as Ridge Wanting to Bed Bridget, A girl he once thought was his flesh and Blood, But if she was there at the Time What about Alice and Matt instead of Donna, I remember Jacqueline was still gorgeous at her Forties, I wish she didn't retire so soon, I could actually conceive a role for her in basically any soap Opera that existed at the time

@vetsoapfan About the hero worship and people worshiping of one individual to the exclusion of all others. This was the recent line elsewhere that just threw me for a loop.

said elsewhere: ... weak memorial service for the greatest character in all of television and motion picture history.

At first I was speechless but I got over that.

Edited April 26, 20223 yr by Tonksadora
Fix.

4 hours ago, Xanthe said:

Extremely idle thought: could the name Mackenzie Cory have been inspired by Macdonald Carey?

Lemay borrowed the name from a NYC librarian named John Mackenzie Cory

3 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Lemay borrowed the name from a NYC librarian named John Mackenzie Cory

Thanks!

9 hours ago, Tonksadora said:

I've always appreciated the fact that Anne Heche embraces her beginnings in daytime. She's as at home talking about Marley & Vicky as anything else she's done. Some actors like to bury their past in soaps as if they're somehow ashamed of it. But, sometimes it's not the actor who is guarding their bio that way, it's their handlers.

Well, I mean... she was outstanding. She must be rightly proud of her work there. ❤️