What happens after this Mary Jane woman is exposed? I seriously doubt they even have any idea of her to integrate her into the canvas. At the end, Jack will hate her, Victor will hate her for being exposed and will of course blame her for his plans flopping, she just can't win, and they'll have to write her out. At the end, she can't win.

Edited May 1, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

Don't you DARE compare this mess to Vanessa's story, lol! That story was beautiful...well, that is, until she became annoying.

Vanessa was so deliciously sick.

All those years in a veil.

And then it turned out she used that veil -- she could have had surgery -- to keep her sons (especially Lance) bound to her in guilt and service.

Then, she (in a brazenly incestuous subtext) began to control her sons' romantic partners.

Vanessa's loathing of Lorie and manipulation of her and her romance with Lance was clearly the template on which Bill later built the Stephanie-Brooke story on B&B. Indeed, the early Forresters (certainly the Stephanie-Ridge-Thorne piece) were really just a re-filming of the Prentiss family dynamics, sans Vanessa's more acutely psycho bent.

And yes, Vanessa's suicide was a totally beautiful piece of soap opera. I vividly remember her screaming and falling to her death like yesterday. I still remember Lorie's booking scenes at her arrest, including a rare (for Y&R) bland and white freeze frame ending. Totally brilliant.

I'm sorry, Cashton, but, "no soap", lol. She is Patty; I'll give you that. And if they say she's waited all these years, b/c she had no resources before, then that is what happened.

Nevertheless, I feel like this isn't encompassing history, but rather, exploiting it. The original Jack/Patty story was probably one of Bill Bell's best (IMO). This twist will just cheapen my memories of it.

Vanessa was so deliciously sick.

All those years in a veil.

And then it turned out she used that veil -- she could have had surgery -- to keep her sons (especially Lance) bound to her in guilt and service.

Then, she (in a brazenly incestuous subtext) began to control her sons' romantic partners.

Vanessa's loathing of Lorie and manipulation of her and her romance with Lance was clearly the template on which Bill later built the Stephanie-Brooke story on B&B. Indeed, the early Forresters (certainly the Stephanie-Ridge-Thorne piece) were really just a re-filming of the Prentiss family dynamics, sans Vanessa's more acutely psycho bent.

And yes, Vanessa's suicide was a totally beautiful piece of soap opera. I vividly remember her screaming and falling to her death like yesterday. I still remember Lorie's booking scenes at her arrest, including a rare (for Y&R) bland and white freeze frame ending. Totally brilliant.

Now, that...? Is Y&R.

And don't tell me it's impossible to have that again, b/c no one could write like Papa Bell, or whatever. Because, it isn't. It just takes someone who is more than a glorified associate head/breakdown writer.

I'm sorry, Cashton, but, "no soap", lol. She is Patty; I'll give you that. And if they say she's waited all these years, b/c she had no resources before, then that is what happened.

Nevertheless, I feel like this isn't encompassing history, but rather, exploiting it. The original Jack/Patty story was probably one of Bill Bell's best (IMO). This twist will just cheapen my memories of it.

Well let's see how they play it before we judge. Haiduk is brilliant and in the words of just about every soap opera heroine "We have no idea what this woman is capable of!!" LOL!

What happens after this Mary Jane woman is exposed? I seriously doubt they even have any idea of her to integrate her into the canvas. At the end, Jack will hate her, Victor will hate her for being exposed and will of course blame her for his plans flopping, she just can't win, and they'll have to write her out. At the end, she can't win.

Well, give it 6 months till anyone figures this out. In the meantime, she ROYALLY screws with Jack's life. If Sharon's pregnant, maybe she puts that baby in jeopardy. Haiduk, with that cackle, already shows that she could be the next great psycho b!tch.

So, eventually it will implode. This is where the typical psycho would be sent off to prison or whatever, never to be seen again (e.g., Isabella, Mari Jo).

But Mary Jane, having family ties...we want her to get better.

So, we get the Michael Baldwin treatment. She's rested, and maybe even seen (or not). Paul loves her. Heather arranges something decent for her aunt.

After the resting, because Haiduk has skills, we watch her redemption arc. Back in Genoa City, struggling to rebuild her life, rebuild her ties, get sane, and FINALLY get past Jack.

In the meantime, the other beauty of it is, that when she goes down, SHE TAKES VICTOR WITH HER!

Oh, I'm not doubting Stacy Haiduk's abilities! Far from it! I think she is brilliant, and I cannot wait to see how she'll handle the scenes surrounding MJ's inevitable reveal. As with many on Y&R currently, however, I just feel as if the writers should be doing better by her, but they won't (or can't), because too many hacks and B-level writers are putting their minds together w/o an A-game player there to distinguish the s**t from the shinola.

What happens after this Mary Jane woman is exposed? I seriously doubt they even have any idea of her to integrate her into the canvas. At the end, Jack will hate her, Victor will hate her for being exposed and will of course blame her for his plans flopping, she just can't win, and they'll have to write her out. At the end, she can't win.

I SO agree with you. i said in an earlier post that I want her to have legs so she can be integrated. Paul and Heather should help her after she's exposed, somehow. That's why i have said before that Paul/Nikki's feud with Victor is going to heat up, especially once he learns that Victor used his sick sister as a pawn in his war against Jack. Also, I read that Patty and Ashley were good friends at one point.

But if they go the Annie Dutton/Terri DeMarco route (GL, shudder) she's a goner.

Well, give it 6 months till anyone figures this out. In the meantime, she ROYALLY screws with Jack's life. If Sharon's pregnant, maybe she puts that baby in jeopardy. Haiduk, with that cackle, already shows that she could be the next great psycho b!tch.

So, eventually it will implode. This is where the typical psycho would be sent off to prison or whatever, never to be seen again (e.g., Isabella, Mari Jo).

But Mary Jane, having family ties...we want her to get better.

So, we get the Michael Baldwin treatment. She's rested, and maybe even seen (or not). Paul loves her. Heather arranges something decent for her aunt.

After the resting, because Haiduk has skills, we watch her redemption arc. Back in Genoa City, struggling to rebuild her life, rebuild her ties, get sane, and FINALLY get past Jack.

In the meantime, the other beauty of it is, that when she goes down, SHE TAKES VICTOR WITH HER!

I am in complete agreement Mark. Thanks for that link to the transcripts. And just what if......Jack actually falls in love with Patty this time around? All the rehabbed baddies, Michael, Kevin, Jana, all had SOMEONE to bring them back to sanity. What if it's Jack, Paul, Heather and Ashley?

I SO agree with you. i said in an earlier post that I want her to have legs so she can be integrated. Paul and Heather should help her after she's exposed, somehow. That's why i have said before that Paul/Nikki's feud with Victor is going to heat up, especially once he learns that Victor used his sick sister as a pawn in his war against Jack. Also, I read that Patty and Ashley were good friends at one point.

But if they go the Annie Dutton/Terri DeMarco route (GL, shudder) she's a goner.

I wrote something very similar upthread. I think having the psycho be dear Patty, she can survive because there are people who love her, and who know that Jack damaged her.

Indeed, at the end of Patty's last arc, Jack never fingered her as the shooter. He gave her mercy, because he knew he had driven her mad.

I suspect it will be the same deal again. Jack did this to her at such a formative age and stage...he'll let her off the hook.

And don't tell me it's impossible to have that again, b/c no one could write like Papa Bell, or whatever. Because, it isn't. It just takes someone who is more than a glorified associate head/breakdown writer.

Only you, Khan. Only you.

I wrote something very similar upthread. I think having the psycho be dear Patty, she can survive because there are people who love her, and who know that Jack damaged her.

Indeed, at the end of Patty's last arc, Jack never fingered her as the shooter. He gave her mercy, because he knew he had driven her mad.

I suspect it will be the same deal again. Jack did this to her at such a formative age and stage...he'll let her off the hook.

Yep - our posts were near identical in thought. You also touched on something that MAB is doing that isn't being done on soaps: mystery. Not just "Who killed/Shot s/l's. But intriging mysteries - like Who's gaslighting Ashley, where are they going to go with Rafe. Who's Mary Jane? it keeps me so interested even when there's nothing else going on. And MAB truly lays out the clues, which I SO appreciate. Not just out of nowhere reveals (Jana killed Carmen?? Oh??). If I'm investing 5 hours a week into a show give me some brain stimulation.

Word to the wise, brimike: next time you wish to insult, don't. Because, in this battle of wits, you'd just come up short.

Never started a topic before, so forgive me if I have done it wrong.

The convenient suspects would be Estella or Adam, but I hope this is not the case, too unimaginative.

Is there any possiblity it could be Mary Jane? I don't think that she is 100% behind Victor nor do I think she is a 100% against Jack.

Thoughts anyone?

Could have just put this in the weekly thread...