was watching and LML did not throw the show out of kilter.

First, she was really only unfettered in 2007. And even then, the actors grounded her.

Second, while she did outrageous plots and disregarded history/character, the "bones" of each character were mostly similar.

For a fan who doesn't pay attention to credits, I'll bet even during the LML era they didn't notice that much of a difference.

I agree.... LML did some great things in her first 6 months, then when she got autonomy, she was like a child running with scissors. Actors DID have to keep her grounded in 2007, but only so much. It depneds how brave the individual actor was. At the time, Beth Maitland told me that the whole cast was (In her words) "freaked out". All in all, there were alot of changes that I noticed, but also... the difference in the show wasn't HUGE. For me, the camera shots and background music was the most noticeable difference, and the ADD SL's.

Edited April 21, 200916 yr by alphanguy74

I would only catch Y&R during the Nina and RYAN era, the story beats took too long and i was impatient but I was still intrigued somehow by certain stories. I watched Y&R steadily during Jack Smith and most of Latham (I had to quit because it got ridiculous) and it didn't take me long to figure out who's who and what's what. It is now the only soap I watch

The reason LML's Y&R failed IMO is her need to speed the pacing up.

The reason LML's Y&R wasn't Y&R.

The reason LML's Y&R wasn't Y&R.

!!!!!!!!!!!!

She didn't even try to make her changes subtle after a while it was just out of control to me! I am not a long time viewerbut by the middle of her last year in charge I felt like I was in the twilight zone and I had to stop watching. I couldn't take it

Wow, youv'e just described everything Y&R fans hold dear.

Well, considering I'm not a fan and the topic of the thread is asking why that is... is that really so surprising?

duplicate post

Edited April 21, 200916 yr by rangethatrover

duplicate post

I tried a few times to get into Y&R - always a strong story would pull me in like Cassandra Rawlins, Phillip dying etc in 1989 only for the show to slow down again and me tune out. The last time the show pulled me in was towards the end of Jack Smith's run - and again I dropped it again after 6 months. The slow pacing is part of the reason why I tuned out. With Bill Bell's storytelling, after a story climaxed there was a vaccum, for lack of a better word, as new stories were introduced and coupled with slow pacing made the show feel like it lost momentum to me. I think if I could connect to more characters (i.e. root for them) I wouldn't have felt it as much. I don't know why I don't connect to most the characters on this show - they're well developed and I can follow their thought processes for the most part. But scanning the cast list, I would say Sharon and Lauren are pretty much the only characters I feel. Added to that, the central alpha male character, Victor Newman is most unlikeable. (Not unlike Ridge Forrester on B&B or John Black was on Days (or Sonny on GH or Zach/Ryan on AMC or John on OLTL etc. - actually I feel this is a major problem with Soaps today - the so-called male protaganist isn't very likeable, but thats for another thread...) I guess this is why I like shows like DOOL and AMC (or previously Sunset Beach, Santa Barbara and Loving) - I felt the characters had heart - I dont feel that with Y&R so much.

I tried a few times to get into Y&R - always a strong story would pull me in like Cassandra Rawlins, Phillip dying etc in 1989 only for the show to slow down again and me tune out. The last time the show pulled me in was towards the end of Jack Smith's run - and again I dropped it again after 6 months. The slow pacing is part of the reason why I tuned out. With Bill Bell's storytelling, after a story climaxed there was a vaccum, for lack of a better word, as new stories were introduced and coupled with slow pacing made the show feel like it lost momentum to me. I think if I could connect to more characters (i.e. root for them) I wouldn't have felt it as much. I don't know why I don't connect to most the characters on this show - they're well developed and I can follow their thought processes for the most part. But scanning the cast list, I would say Sharon and Lauren are pretty much the only characters I feel. Added to that, the central alpha male character, Victor Newman is most unlikeable. (Not unlike Ridge Forrester on B&B or John Black was on Days (or Sonny on GH or Zach/Ryan on AMC or John on OLTL etc. - actually I feel this is a major problem with Soaps today - the so-called male protaganist isn't very likeable, but thats for another thread...) I guess this is why I like shows like DOOL and AMC (or previously Sunset Beach, Santa Barbara and Loving) - I felt the characters had heart - I dont feel that with Y&R so much.

Really? I feel the opposite I think the character's heart is what makes them human and likeable (at least for me) but the elements that cause the drama is everything that's selfish, dysfunctional, and unwise about them. No clear good guy and no clear bad guy sometimes. Leaves more room for interpretation or judging a character

Edited April 21, 200916 yr by classicmoment

Really? I feel the opposite I think the character's heart is what makes them human and likeable (at least for me) but the elements that cause the drama is everything that's selfish, dysfunctional, and unwise about them. No clear good guy and no clear bad guy sometimes. Leaves more room for interpretation or judging a character

Maybe I wrote that wrong - I meant i don't feel the characters on Y&R have heart. I agree with you that "character's heart is what makes them human and likeable", but I don't feel that with characters like the Newmans (Victor, Nicki, Nick, Victoria, heck throw in Phyllis too) or the Abbotts (Jack, Ashleigh (I did like Tracey though)). Lets not even get into the Baldwins or Chancellors or the young crowd (although I liked the previous 2 Macs and previous 2 Colleens and used to like Daniel). They are excellent actors though for the most part, just not very endearing (and yes that sounds like a contradiction but think about it...)

I find them a bit TOO soapy. Which is odd to say as a huge fan of the genre, I know... But the super long held shots before each commercial break (Peter Bergman said he had to be taught specifically how to hold thes elonger when he went to Y&R because they never were such a big deal on AMC lol), the way everything is so intense, the lack of humour unless it's overly ironic or caricatured, the fact that everyone seems to be even richer than any other soap (something that's newer to the Bell shows I know) etc. they just don't talk like peopel I can identify with--I have loved both soaps, and his tenure on DAYS through videos through whole storylines but I always burn out on them.

but for the short term I admit I love them--I jsut don't stick with them it seems. But i get why people (like you Sylph ) don't like Agnes soaps...

Edited April 22, 200916 yr by EricMontreal22

I don't think you needed to watch Y&R from the beginning to get into it. Remember, all of the Brook's are gone and were written out by 1983. All of the Foster's are gone. Jill isn't even a Foster anymore. I found it easy to get into Y&R because it's stories move rather slowly, which can get boring at times, but also, they always revolve around the Newman's and Abbott's and several other characters. I think it's easy to identify who is connected with who.

B&B on the other hand, if it hadn't been created by the creator and head writer of Y&R at the peak of Y&R's success, it wouldn't have lasted past 1989.

I was jsut going to say that (yes I'm behind on threads on here) Y&R was so compeltely revamped in 83--and for a year or so it suffered but then it became one of the few soaps to manage to make such a huge change work that I think it prob doesn't have a ton of fans who watched since 73. I know a lot of peopel who became fans when they abandoned AMC, for instance, in the late 90s

Maybe I wrote that wrong - I meant i don't feel the characters on Y&R have heart. I agree with you that "character's heart is what makes them human and likeable", but I don't feel that with characters like the Newmans (Victor, Nicki, Nick, Victoria, heck throw in Phyllis too) or the Abbotts (Jack, Ashleigh (I did like Tracey though)). Lets not even get into the Baldwins or Chancellors or the young crowd (although I liked the previous 2 Macs and previous 2 Colleens and used to like Daniel). They are excellent actors though for the most part, just not very endearing (and yes that sounds like a contradiction but think about it...)

For me, the thing with Victor is sometimes you can take him and sometimes you gotta leave him. I don't think there is a shade of gray with him, it's only black and white.

Ashley has her moments, and Jack has his. But when I think of some characters who I view the same way I view Victor, I think of something the great Agnes Nixon once said: "Sometimes people do the wrong things for the right reasons." I think that is something Bill Bell understood as well.

Victor may really be unlikeable sometimes, or even most of the time, but he will do the wrong thing to help or vice versa, if that makes any sense. I think the same thing applies to many characters to an extent.

I am ambivalent about the Victor character on Y&R.

He is so hateful,arrogant and self serving that I loathe him for the most part.

On the other hand,this IS the character-he is consistent and plays by his own rules-which is how a powerful,ruthless person would behave.

So,I guess it is good writing and clear characterization.

I get frustrated by how other charcters put up with him,but I guess in real life that might happen too.

How often do you read about those men,who seem to treat employees,associates and family like dirt,yet are still held in high esteem because of the power they wield?

go read what Nelson has to say about the GREATEST SOAP of all time

http://tvguide.sympatico.msn.ca/The+Nelson...n_NB.htm?isfa=1

The Bell soaps are the only shows to increase ratings hmmmmm I wonder why lol

Total Viewers

1. Y&R 5,215,000 (+81,000/+128,000)

2. B&B 3,350,000 (+25,000/-318,000)

3. DAYS 2,768,000 (-99,000/+116,000)

4. GH 2,511,000 (-133,000/-507,000) *

5. AMC 2,510,000 (-203,000/-45,000)

6. ATWT 2,462,000 (-143,000/-353,000)

7. OLTL 2,401,000 (-287,000/-85,000)

8. GL 2,193,000 (-24,000/-252,000)

Household Rating

1. Y&R 3.7/12 (same/-.1)

2. B&B 2.4/8 (-.1/-.3) **

3. DAYS 2.0/7 (-.2/same)

4. AMC 1.9/6 (-.1/-.1)

4. GH 1.9/6 (-.1/-.4) *

6. OLTL 1.8/6 (-.2/-.2) *

6. ATWT 1.8/6 (-.1/-.3)

8. GL 1.6/5 (same/-.2)

Edited April 23, 200916 yr by Darlotto99