2009: The Directors and Writers Thread

[Y&RWorldTurner]

She doesn't write scripts, that's what I know.

[DaytimeFan]

Fair enough...hmm I have to wonder what exactly she does then?

[MarkH]

And this is my HUGE frustration with the soap press.

There is a segment of the audience that WANTS to know this stuff. (And there would be a larger segment if this became part of the general reportage).

With soaps down to a precious few, the mags seem to have little idea anymore about how to fill pages save for "spoilers" and shallow 1.5 page interviews (usually roughly edited Q&As--which I like) with actors.

Imagine if the mags became more "industry" focused.

[sheilaforever]

Re: Synder

I think someone a while back mentioned that she is credited as an high-level writer but rather is the sync between production and writing. Kinda looking after conitnuity, use of sets etc.

Script-eiditng is definitely done by ALden and Minnis so this leaves not too much room for her, I guess.

As for Matha Byrne: She's friends with Brad Bell and Susan Flannery and had some great statements in her Branco interview last year. SO I give her the benefit of doubt writing-wise; worst case is Kay Alden probably overwriting the whole script. LOL

When it comes to the writing team I really want Brad to axe his sis-in-law. Shannon Bradley's script have been way below B&B's standards. I'm currently cating up with the show and her scripts really stand out as the weakest link. Her writing style is very ABC-ish, as is Adam Dusevoir's but he at least has some spunk in him.

[DeliaIrisFan]

Wow, I didn't know this thread even existed until I went looking to find what people were saying about Tom Casiello.

That's cool about Martha Byrne. I don't watch B&B, I tried to for the ten zillionth time last summer, and all of the pieces are there for me to enjoy it (OK, except for some of the major stars, but really so many other shows are dominated by models who can't act these days - at least these are actors who have been doing this for decades by and large, regardless of whether some of them were initially hired for their looks when they looked somewhat different). I figured if Patrick Mulcahey could have reached the conclusion that this was the best creative venue left for him at this point, then it ought to be good enough for me. But I've just never been able to get into the Bell shows, and I guess I never will. But I'm happy for Martha, and what great karma if she can parlay whatever dirty business she was put through at ATWT, a show which sadly is not likely to be around when she's ready for retirement, into a steady gig at one of the most viable shows left.

As for Casiello, I didn't realize there were such strong opinions about him...

Thank you! That was the extent of my reaction, and I felt like maybe I was missing something after reading some of these strong opinions. Right or wrong, I do feel like I've gotten to know this guy somewhat by reading his website. And the soap genre is built on people feeling that they "know" individuals whom they have never met because they are exposed to them day after day in a pre-scripted fashion via mass media, so the medium may have changed (and hey, I've always been kind of an introvert and more drawn to writers than performers, anyway) but I feel like I should be in good company on this site of all places.

Yeah, it's a rotten time to be jobless - the place I work has a hiring freeze, everyone else I know works somewhere in at best a similar position, and I have friends losing their jobs, and most if not all of us do not work in a dying industry. And then I read about people getting laid off en masse at charities doing important things because they were dependent on donors who lost all their money because of Madoff... Geez, soaps have done a complete 180 and are once again back to being escapism - except now the characters are so unrealistic and unlikeable that I'm not living vicariously through them, but rather through writers who have actually allowed us to see them as human beings a few times!

Seriously, I can't imagine that Tom is going to make any huge difference at Y&R, and as I just said about Martha Byrne I've resigned myself to never being able to get into the Bell shows so I won't even be watching. And I don't even know how anyone could assess a breakdown as being good or bad, as there are so many other factors that must go into what the breakdown writer has to work with. It's also even further removed from what we see on-air than longterm story or actual dialogue (there are probably elements to a good breakdown that really make the scriptwriter's job easier, which we will never be privvy to). Plus, the breakdown writer position didn't even exist in the golden age of soaps. So TC couldn't even be compared to the breakdown writer who wrote the episodes in which Carla Gray was revealed to be black or Iris hung up on Rachel while she was having a miscarriage, or even the more recent episodes (as far as I know) in which the lights went out in Springfield or Tony listened to BJ's heartbeat inside Maxie's chest. At best he is someone with an interesting perspective who will be present at story meetings, and that alone is cause for celebration in my book.

Also, something that nobody has mentioned - what DOOL did to the union writers after the strike was particularly appalling as far as I am concerned (and I'm not sure the WGA has even concluded its investigation into whether it was illegal) and I am particularly happy to see anyone who stuck to their principles during that mess get another chance.

However, as fascinating as the Byrne and Casiello developments are, I think this is my favorite post in this thread!

[boldfan01]

Rhonda Friedman recently told Soap Opera Weekly that one thing they do to save costs is breakdown the 4 work days each week into groups of two and then try to use the same sets throughout each two episode group. She said it was a challenge for the writers, but it helped in the wallet since they only had to put up/break down sets two days a week. Since the same script writer rarely writes two days in a row on B&B, maybe keeping track of that is one of Snyder's jobs?

And the Bells have a history of actors going over to the creative side; Some have cut it (e.g. Meg Bennett and Jim Houghton went from Y&R actors to writers on both Y&R and B&B, Flannery as director on B&, while others haven't (John Castellanos, Y&R's John Silva, had a trial gig on B&B in 2000 but didn't last). So Martha Byrne will have her shot to prove herself and they'll see how it goes.

At the beginning - probably her trial period? - she only wrote a few scripts, but lately she seems to be writing more. Tracey Ann Kelly and Jack Smith write a large number of scripts, but after them, Shannon seems to write more than the others. In Dusevoir's case, maybe it's because of his production duties, and maybe Rex Best's script count will go up given that he only came back recently. But it seems weird that Shannon, on the low end of the writer totem pole, would be writing less than someone with years in the business like Patrick Mulcahey.

[Sylph]

Cheaper, gets the job done. Albeit horrendously.

[SOAPSFOREVER]

According to my source, Snyder participates in the weekly layout meetings with Bell, Minnis, and Alden. She takes the first pass at the outlines, then hands them off to Alden, who does her thing before sending them to the scriptwriters. Before Alden was hired, Snyder edited some, I recall, but doesn't anymore I don't think. Alden and Minnis edit, then pass the scripts along to Bell for a final edit.

[DaytimeFan]

Well now that makes sense. Thanks!

[bellcurve]

ITA. I'll even go a step further and say, while Dusevoir is far from being the best scriptwriter ever, but he is miles ahead of Bradley. He easily finds the characters voices(probably due to his years of experience at B& and he doesn't try to use all these hip references that characters would never think of saying. I had to roll my eyes the day conservative, God fearing Taylor said Brooke was acting like "a member of the Pussycat Dolls." It's not to say Taylor wouldn't know who they are, but it just came out of left field and was an odd dialogue choice.

I don't oppose someone using slang or hip dialogue with characters(i.e. Beall at AMC/Y&R), but you have to know which characters to use it for and when. I found it absurd that Taylor would say something like that. And I love campy [!@#$%^&*] just like alot of people on this board.

Bradley was also the scriptwriter who put those "Rick's" in the episode when Ridge throws Rick off the Sky Lounge(later made fun of on The Soup).

If she's good, I'd love it if Byrne ultimately replaced Bradley.

[R Sinclair]

Of course I have something to say about this. Hip, pop culture-dripping dialog is cute... but it has to fit with the style and voice of the show. I think Beall would be better at B&B since it's a show set in the fashion industry... rather than network jewels such as CBS's Y&R and ABC's AMC. That kind of dialog is better suited for a show set in Los Angeles dealing with competing fashion houses... rather than shows about a midwestern city or a northeastern township.

That's why I adore GH's script writers... because they write in the voice of the show. Their use of comedy and drama fits within the parameters of what General Hospital has become.

AMC's current script writing team need to be... shall I say... overhauled.

But long story short, this particular kind of dialog has its place. But when it runs throughout an entire script, I tend to think a writer is a little more self-impressed, rather than concentrating on giving a character a specific voice.

For instance, Michele Val Jean on GH will write dialog that suits the characters. Alexis sounds how Alexis should sound. Same with Maxie, Spinelli, Luke, even Carly. They all tend to have a specific way of speaking. But when Beall wrote scripts for AMC, every single character would say the same thing the exact same way. I'll never forget Richie's autopsy. Every single character said "cut him open..." when referring to Richie's autopsy. True, when a body is going through an autopsy, it is indeed cut open... but why would EVERY single character use the same choice of words when referring to the autopsy?

I just think that in soaps, if a script writer were to concentrate on telling the truth of the characters in that scene -- not to mention telling the truth of the scene itself -- there would be no need to accessorize a scene with all of this slang, pop culture and so-called "hip" dialog.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

You know, judging Beall's recent scripts at Y&R, I don't get the overwhelming sense that she tries to be hip, cool, or whatever. Maybe her work is being severely edited or maybe the breakdowns give her some type of significant inspiration, but her scripts haven't really been littered with contemporary slang or contrived "hip" words. She wrote the Phyllis and Sharon argument last Thursday, I believe, and that was rather well done. It wasn't tacky, contrived, hip, or any of that, it felt very befitting of those two characters. That said, she's not my favourite scriptwriter, and who knows how long she'll last at Y&R.

[bellcurve]

But the character's backgrounds and personalities for the mainstays on B&B(i.e. Brooke, Ridge, Eric, Stephanie, Nick, etc.) do not suit references to The Pussycat Dolls and Danity Kane. The Forresters(with Stephanie hailing from the Chicago area) have always had this rather Conservative, Reagan-esque air about them, even when they are sleeping with their cousins and trying to kill each other. I just don't see Stephanie saying, "Hey girlfriend," or Nick going, "'Sup Bro?"

When they had Marcus using "Momz" two months into his stay(well after he had been established as Donna's son and his backstory of coming from Texas was there), I thought it was odd. Maybe Texas Battle wanted to ad-lib that in, but it seemed strange for B&B's token, who had been established as a well-spoken gentleman who called Donna "Mom" all of a sudden refer to her with the "z" sound at the end of it. Marcus wasn't a rich kid, but he was far from street or thug.

I like Beall's work at Y&R, but I also have a feeling that she may be heavily edited; based on what you have shared in these Writers/Directors threads.

That's a very good example of where her writing falls short. Aside from the "hip" bits of dialogue you detest(bitchtatorship, etc.), I never understood why you hated her work. Maybe I skipped class that day, but I am glad you restated this stuff.

I think it also has to do with the tone the show sets as well. When NBC had a soap lineup, they could get away with that kind of dialogue on their shows, because the nature of the series were so over the top. I don't find it too odd whenever someone makes a pop culture reference, because all of that stuff is around us and everyone, in their own way, relates to it. It just has to make sense.

Maybe my reply was, in a way, agreeing with you on a few things.

[Sylph]

Ugly Betty trash-cr*p dialogue doesn't work on B&B. It doesn't even work on Ugly Betty.

[DaytimeFan]

Oh the Forresters are absolutely the Reagans of daytime television. Bill Bell wrote California Republicans soooo perfectly (he was one after all)...I don't think anybody wrote rich people better than Bill Bell. He wrote his characters, particularly the women, as if they were Nan Kempner or Pat Buckley or Betsy Bloomingdale...he was an absolute master!

Have to admit, I thought Marcus calling Donna "Momz" was absolutely adorable. He should get back to doing that, Donna's young enough for it to be funny and sweet...call me crazy but I really think there is decent mother/son chemistry between Donna and Marcus. Take a bow scriptwriters!