Members DRW50 Posted June 25, 2018 Members Share Posted June 25, 2018 I agree with the idea, but I just wonder if any Democrat anywhere near a level of power would be able to accomplish those goals. I feel like a lot of the reaction to the debate doesn't go much further than "The world hates us...leave those children alone...this isn't America." And I certainly agree with all those (except maybe the latter, as America has been doing this for a long time), but I just wonder where it will go when it's time to make emotion into policy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Juliajms Posted June 25, 2018 Members Share Posted June 25, 2018 No way in hell. Sorry to be negative, but I don't see anyway that's happening. If anything I expect things to get worse for the next couple of years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DramatistDreamer Posted June 25, 2018 Members Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) Well, right as we debate this, you have teenage kids in this Walmart converted "care centers" walking out and into the void unaccounted for. Nobody mentions that these centers cannot keep legally prevent them from walking out, even if they have safety concerns. Raising the issue of ICE and making politicians (especially those possibly seeking higher office) answer questions and at least, consider a plan would be a lot productive than shouting on about whether people should practice civility to a bunch of deplorables. Bernie and the other purity ponies should also have to answer and come up with a plan...don't they always have the answers, so they say? Politicians should be put under the microscope and have to answer the "What next?" question. Why are folks suddenly lowering the bar for every politician under the sun now? Please register in order to view this content People wanted Obama to make bread out of stone but suddenly, we can't even try to accomplish anything. Shouldn't even attempt to change a system that's clearly inhumane. Edited June 25, 2018 by DramatistDreamer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted June 25, 2018 Members Share Posted June 25, 2018 A part of me feels like this strategy of how Democrats should verbally confront Trump people anywhere/everywhere they go and shame them/run them off, is sort of an admission that they know nothing is going to change in the midterms and they are warning people in advance to get vocal and steel themselves now. I hope that isn't the case, but they must wonder deep down, as I do, if the voters have just thrown in the towel, or worse, will continue openly supporting the insane and insanely corrupt GOP. We can try to change it - I'm just wondering what solutions people actually have beyond just basically saying it's awful and think of the children. That won't get anything done, as most in Washington don't care about the children and never have to begin with. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Juliajms Posted June 25, 2018 Members Share Posted June 25, 2018 I'm not saying that and I don't think anyone else here is either. In fact I'm not even debating anything because I completely agree with both you and Carl. What I said is I don't believe we can get rid of ICE under Trump. I didn't say people shouldn't try. Sorry, I'm not going to pretend to believe something I don't. If it happens I'll be thrilled I was wrong. This is interesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DramatistDreamer Posted June 25, 2018 Members Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) There's no way that I would claiming that ICE could be abolished during a Trump administration (it would likely take at least a decade, under the best of circumstances), I was addressing the Sanders response to the question which shows that this, like a lot of issues that affect POC is clearly not on his radar. As for making promises that cannot be delivered upon, when has that ever stopped Sanders before? I guess the impetus is very different when you personally know people whose lives are on a knife's edge because of these policies. It's not just something in the abstract or simply a news story to turn away from. Then again, there were many that claimed that some of us were being reactionary to the possibility of Trump's election jeopardizing lives. And the call for abolishing ICE did not originate from politicians. There have been people calling for the abolition of ICE almost since its inception. It's an issue that has a grassroots origin and has come to the politicians attention only because of the current crisis. An attempt beyond talk. Edited June 25, 2018 by DramatistDreamer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JaneAusten Posted June 25, 2018 Members Share Posted June 25, 2018 ICE arose from 9/11 so unless someone can explain what purpose it serves currently other than rounding up people to send to the gulags. I'm not suggesting we don't need some sort of law enforcement arm but ICE is and was never effective and is frankly out of control. I don't care if the bill goes nowhere now. AS LEAST someone is speaking out. And surely this is politics, a way to galvanize the democratic base. No one in Washington especially Donald Trump has any interest in solving problems. And it would not shock me at all that he manufactured this crisis on purpose because they know the tax cut has been such a monumental flop even with their base of voters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DramatistDreamer Posted June 25, 2018 Members Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) THIS. Thank you. Edited June 25, 2018 by DramatistDreamer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wendy Posted June 25, 2018 Members Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) And here we go! Tariffs have consequences! Harley-Davidson to move jobs abroad to avoid trade war tariffs. Edited June 25, 2018 by Wendy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted June 25, 2018 Members Share Posted June 25, 2018 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sivad40 Posted June 25, 2018 Members Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) Edited June 25, 2018 by sivad40 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dragonflies Posted June 25, 2018 Members Share Posted June 25, 2018 I love their friendship 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted June 25, 2018 Members Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) I think the part of the base that will be galvanized by this already was, so I feel like it just opens a can of worms without having the proper followthrough. Certainly we don't need ICE, there are better ways to handle immigration, but that isn't what will be talked about, because by and large Democrats don't handle framing well and the media would rather focus on asking any and every vulnerable Democrat in Congress about this issue as they squirm in response. Edited June 25, 2018 by DRW50 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sivad40 Posted June 26, 2018 Members Share Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) Edited June 26, 2018 by sivad40 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Juliajms Posted June 26, 2018 Members Share Posted June 26, 2018 This isn't who we are. We are better than this. Please register in order to view this content All of those phrases are over used and clearly false. For starters we are a house divided against itself, so there is no "we" when it comes to these issues. 45 is openly using the language and tactics of ethnic cleansing. I keep seeing people say "we haven't learned from history". Learning isn't the problem. The problem is that they agree with calling human immigration an "infestation". On another note 45's tweet about Maxine Waters is disturbing. I hope she makes it through the coming months unscathed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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