The Politics Thread

[JaneAusten]

I could care less anymore and totally discount the "how to pay for it argument" which is always based on smaller gvmt and deficit spending when we are close to a 1 trillion dollar deficit and refuse to cut defense spending and continue to overpay private defense contractors and private prison contractors. These people don't care about any of this unless it conflicts with something they don't want. Free free free except when women are blocked from controlling their own reproductive rights, when legalizing marijuana is popular, when keeping poor people in jail awaiting trial because they cannot afford bail(gee who makes money off of keeping these folks in jail). 

[JaneAusten]

Where on earth is Bernie proposing we keep what we have now. If you mean medicare yes. And he's advocated for NOW under the GOP administration which is dismantling whats in place now(the ACA) is shoring it up and improving it. 

 

Medicare was not perfect when it was rolled out and it's not perfect now. But maybe again do some research on what Bernie Sanders(which was actually John Conyers bill he had been bringing to the table for the last 20 years) is a medicare like solution. Lord one thing proposed when the ACA was being compiled was lowering the Medicare age to 50. Why? Because it would lower the cost of private insurance and employer provided insurance.

 

And when you talk about costs just yesterday a study was released showing the cost of Medicare for all would be 32 billion dollars. What it also said is that overall it would cut health costs, the actual national healthcare expediture by 2 trillion dollars. You know the actual cost of healthcare in the U.S. for ALL OF US. Last time I looked 2 trillion is more than 32 billion.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all-plan-cost-save-money-2018-7

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by JaneAusten

[DramatistDreamer]

And Business Insider is definitely NOT a left-wing publication.  Far from it.

[JaneAusten]

I have to say one more thing about healthcare. The idiots who defend the status quo and I am talking pre ACA, forget one big thing. Healthcare costs were going up astronomically. And do people think those who don't have healthcare don't goto a doctor when they get sick. They goto the emergency room, are not able to pay, so who do these folks think pay for this. Those of us who pay for insurance do when they raise our premiums to cover this. 

 

My 23 year old nephew at the time had an serious accident on an ATV. He broke his jaw, had to have several surgeries, and his teeth rebuilt. This was when we had the ACA but he decided to pay the IRS penalty because he didn't want to pay 80/month for a plan he qualified for. A plan that would ultimately have covered the majority of this costs.  So what happened? He racked up over 100k in medical expenses and did what? Filed bankruptcy. Who paid for that? Those of us who actually pay our premiums do. And fortunately he now realizes what a dumbass he was and how irresponsible he was and has a good healthcare plan with his employer, which by the way unlike years back where employer provided healthcare was a given, has to pay for.

[GMac]

 

+1000 

 

Makes complete sense and you're absolutely right.  There's no argument to be made otherwise, hence the radio silence from the opposing viewpoint.  :-)

 

[DramatistDreamer]

For the past decade or so, I've only had a passing interest in NBA, tbh but I think what LeBron James has elected to do with his public school (yes, a public school) is truly great, especially when you look at all the initiatives that are being launched out of that school.

 

 

[Khan]

And the Trumpists will start their boycott/smear campaign of Lebron in five, four, three, two....

[JaneAusten]

I have zero interest in all the showboating about who Lebron will sign with but you have to admit the guy has done tons for the community. Coming from someone who loved Michael Jordan as a player but has watched him do zip to give back.

[DramatistDreamer]

 

His surrogates have already tried (remember the "shut up and dribble" remark?).  It hasn't worked.  James is unlikely to back down anyway.

[DRW50]

Regarding health care, I think that Democrats have been so badly burned by the 1993 and 2010 fights that they just don't know how to have these battles in a way the public will understand. Even now when we get the CW that everyone will understand what Trump is trying to take away, I honestly don't think they do. 

 

The problem is that the voices which often seem to get the most attention are pipe dream types, like Bernie Sanders, or his protege Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who seem more interested in talk shows and road shows than in actual plans or progress.

[juppiter]

 

Indeed.

 

The Affordable Care Act was supposed to be a means to an end. All sides seemed to agree that it was a ridiculous bill, but one side found it necessary in spite of that.

 

I grant that the Republicans trying to repeal it in its entirety was and is ridiculous.

 

But somewhere along the way, it ceased being a means to an end for Democrats, and became an end unto itself, and I think that's where the Democrat Party lost its way.

 

Democrats like to pretend it made things better for everybody. Republicans like to pretend it made things worse for everybody. The truth is somewhere in between.

 

So to propose another vast overhaul of healthcare less than a decade after we're still recovering from the last one to me is grossly irresponsible. If the Republicans' "Repeal Obamacare" was a pipe dream fantasy that could not be enacted once they had the power to do so, so to is the Democrats' current "Medicare For All" fantasy. 

 

Replace your billion with trillion.

 

The figure was 32 trillion.

 

32 trillion is 1,000 times 32 billion.

 

Because he is saying we keep the same system we have now. You see the doctor whenever you want to, but you don't pay a premium and you don't pay a copay and you don't pay a deductible. We have the exact same healthcare system we have now except the government pays for it. And, again, Canada does not do it that way. There is rationing of care there. You can't just see whatever doctor you want for whatever and expect the government to pay for it. Again,

 

FAST health care

CHEAP health care

QUALITY health care

 

You really can only pick two of those.

[DramatistDreamer]

Looks like more people than received the tax cut in the first place.  By all means, Trumpists and GOP tax bill apologists, explain how this is not because of Trump's silly tax policy. Enjoy the mess.

 

 

 

Hey, just as long as those corporate behemoths and wealthy 10%ers get their slice, that's all that matters...right?

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Edited August 1, 2018 by DramatistDreamer

[JaneAusten]

It's so great how Trump and company are sticking it to the elites. 

So I misspoke

 

Did you bother reading the Business Insider article(I admit I read it after reading a Vox article) so skimmed some of it. Did you actually miss what the article actually said.

 

"According to the Mercatus model, total health spending would actually come in about $303 billion lower in 2031 than under current projections, with $7.35 trillion going to healthcare that year versus $7.65 trillion expected now. Total national health spending would be $2 trillion lower from 2022 to 2031 under the plan, the report found. "

 

Hey guess what you Do pay a fee for Medicare . My mom collects social security and pays 258/month for medicare. It's based on your income and need. She also pays for Medicare part D. Oh and have you ever heard about payroll tax which goes to fund social security and medicare. But also guess what. Medicare does not have a profit goal like Blue  Cross does because they are not profit driven. Costs are controlled by providers accepted the fees Medicare agrees to pay them.

 

Your not going to win this . And there is NO rationing of healthcare in Canada. NONE. And their model is far better than ours because we do worse.The Fox talking point you parrot is not going to win this but hey I guess my family and friends who live in Canada, laughing at the stupidity of Americans for falling for the "free market con" are all lying about the healthcare they get. And sure we don't ration healthcare.

 

I'm still waiting for the justification for privatizing defense, prisons, when we end up paying 500% more to profit driven entities. Amazing how much money we would have if we got rid of privatizing gvmt responsibilities. When private entities including manufacturers, banks, insurance companies, can demonstrate that they can operate and provide service without regularly needed to be bailed out by the gvmt, maybe then we can talk about how great privatization is.

Edited August 1, 2018 by JaneAusten

[DramatistDreamer]

[DRW50]

More on Jim Jordan:

 

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/08/wrestlers-coach-asked-us-to-recant-jim-jordan-allegations.html