ALL: Are you a Nixon or a Bell??

[Sylph]

OK, SteveFrame is here, so I have to use the opportunity to steer this into another direction: this topic actually omits Harding Lemay in its title. True, Harding only wrote successfully for AW for eight years, but I think those eight years really defined a totally different approach to soaps. It wasn't Bell-esque, Nixon-esque, it certainly wasn't Phillips-esque!

So, Steve, since people are asking you various questions (and this might be more appropriate for the AW thread)... What did you think about the apartment bugging storyline on AW?

[SteveFrame]

Which one are you specifically referring to?

Harding loved to use that in different stories from time to time.

I remember once I think Liz even used it to get the goods on Rachel & Steve. I think it was Liz. I remember whoever it was hid the tape recorder behind a picture.

Also I think Iris bugged the apartment of Robert I believe.

Are you referring to either of those?

[EricMontreal22]

Didn't he repeat that rape story from 1973's Y&R on B&B?

Cat--that's exactly what I meant--for the most part he seemed to deal more with the romantic fantasy element... Interesting of course that Pat Falken Smith trained under him and went on to write the controversial Luke/Laura scenes.

The only reason I didn't put Lemay here is because he doesn't have the direct legacy and influence you can still see (even in the sorry state our shows are in) on soaps to this day that Nixon and Bell do. Out of either, I actually think Lemay was a more sophisticated, more theatrical Nixon (this is solely from reading his stories for AW and Friends and Lovers, and from seeing all of 5 of his AW eps--from 1973 to one of his only 90 minue ones in 79)--he liked using broadly theatrical characters similar to Agnes and his humour in many ways was similar but more sophisticated, again.

It's really too bad that he seemed to only really fit for soaps of that era--or that Friends and Lovers never took off and became a successful soap (when it premiered hte soap press all seemed to think it was NBC's attempt at a sexy, young, Young and Restless type story--till they realized Lemay's approach). I knwo the soap press was more iffy in general to Lemay though in his last 3 or so years (partly for reasons not his fault--liek the massively quick turnaroudn of cast members AW was known to have--with only Rachel/Iris/Mac of the focused character sof that time being constants).

[SteveFrame]

Yes he did repeat it pretty much with Caroline who was very much like Chris from the early days of Y&R.

Bell often had his heroines raped:

Laura (Days)

Susan (Days)

Chris (Y&R)

Leslie (attempted rape - Y&R)

Crickett (Y&R)

Caroline (B&

Those are the ones he is directly responsible for.

He often had it happen to the young virginal heroine. And if I remember correctly for Laura, Chris, Crickett and maybe even Caroline it might have been their first time too.

[Sylph]

Iris bugging. I ask because at that time Wall Street Journal compared Watergate to that storyline and concluded that it was much better than what was going on in real life.

[Paul Raven]

Bill Bell also had the youngest Brooks sister,Peggy,raped by Ron Becker.

[Paul Raven]

Julie on DOOL was also raped,by Larry Atwood.however,I think this was an Ann Marcus story.

[SteveFrame]

I loved that whole story. It introduced us to Clarice too and she was one of my favorite characters on Another World.

Nicolas Coster & Beverlee McKinsey had such great chemistry together too. I loved to watch them argue. Too bad they never got to work together on another soap because they were fantastic together.

Iris was such a wonderful villianess. At one minute you could be screaming at the screen and the next minute she would have you feeling for her. Lemay's writing and McKinsey's acting merged together to make one of the most interesting characters ever in daytime or TV for that matter. How Irene Dailey beat her in 1979 for Best Actress is still a mystery to me? She should have won other times too, but that year esp. was hers IMO.

[SteveFrame]

I forgot about Peggy being raped. I knew there were 2 rapes on Y&R between 1973 and 1980 and the attmepted rape of Leslie. but I forgot who the 2nd actual rape was.

And yes Julie was raped by Larry Atwood. Ann Marcus did write that.

Almost every leading female character on Days has been raped or attempted rape. I am sure I will forget someone but here goes:

Laura Spencer Horton

Susan Martin Peters

Julie Williams

Marlena Evans

Kayla Brady

Jan Spears

Stephanie Johnson

Carrie Brady

Sami Brady

Jennifer Horton

It is almost like a rite of passage to be the leading female on Days.

[JackPeyton]

Bell.

[Sylph]

This is music to my ears! I always wanted to know more about the story so if you know where I can find the synopses, let me know.

What a show that must have been!

[dc11786]

There was a serial rapist in the mid-1980s on Days. Maggie Horton was raped and believe Melissa Horton was almost raped among others. Kimberly Brady was molested by her uncle. Also, didn't Tony rape Liz which is why he believed Noelle was his daughter?

[kalbir]

Alot of the 1987-1992 B&B characters and storylines were practically identical to 1970s Y&R. Examples being:

Eric/Stuart and Phillip

Stephanie/Jennifer and Katherine

Ridge/Snapper

Thorne/Greg

Kristen/Peggy

Caroline/Chris Brooks

Bill Spencer/Stuart

Beth Logan/Liz Foster

Stephen/Bill Foster

Storm/Snapper and Greg

Brooke/Jill

Ridge and Caroline's relationship and breakup because Bill learned of Ridge's cheating/Snapper and Chris's relationship and breakup because Stuart learned of Snapper's cheating

Caroline's rape/Chris's rape

Caroline turning to Thorne after the rape/Chris turning to Greg after the rape

Stephen abandoning his family/Bill Foster abandoning his family

Eric and Beth/Stuart and Liz

Eric and Brooke/Phillip and Jill, and Stuart and Jill

Chris, Peggy, Caroline, Cricket were all virgins when they were raped.

I'm a Bell. Y&R was my first soap and it is currently my only soap.

Thinking about similarities between Y&R and B&B reminded me of something else. Being school-aged in the 1980s, everyone except for me was all into Days but I watched CBS. I remember someone telling me back when B&B was pretty new that it had identical storylines to Days at the same time. After watching some YouTube clips, I can see some similarities. The heroine (Caroline/Kayla) was tricked into marrying one brother (Thorne/Jack) but loved the other (Ridge/Steve). The husband finds out his wife loves his brother and a horrible crime ensues (Thorne shoots Ridge/Jack rapes Kayla). Eventually the heroine is reunited with the man she loves but then tragedy strikes (Caroline dies/Steve dies). Meanwhile, the ex-husband finds love unexpectedly (Macy/Jennifer) much to the surprise of those around them.

[EricMontreal22]

I wonder if he felt that 15 years later, no one would notice? of course Agnes did this too (Rachel/Erica/Ava, etc) but... Maybe not quite as blatantly.

funny i always thougth ABC daytime was still the most popular with students in the 80s--growing up more in the 90s I do remember that by JER's era at DAYS every person my age I met who watched soaps, watched Days except me.

[kalbir]

I was surprised to learn how popular ABC was with teens/college students in the 1980s, as I knew mainly moms who watched General Hospital and All My Children. Days was the most popular show among my classmates from elementary school all the way through college, especially during 1983-1990, the supercouple era, and 1993-1999, the James Reilly sci-fi era.