Knots Landing

[Khan]

If KNOTS deserves any credit at all for being a more character-driven, "actors' soap," then it's due to the work of four people: Alec Baldwin, William Devane, Constance McCashin and Julie Harris. IMO, they're the only ones who gave consistently interesting and "real" performances. Everyone else just got to be a ham after awhile.

[shadow]

I thought the backbone of Knots Landing was always the Karen/Abby relationship, LOVED them. The Irony that Abby saved Karen's daughter life was great and that poignant scene of Karen kissing a sleeping abby after the kidney op was touching.

LOVED me some Constance McCashin, totally underrated, and I still tear up when she drives of and Greg breaks down.

I too was not a fan of G/V and much preferred B/V and G/A.

Edited August 19, 2010 by shadow

[DRW50]

If you can speak French or you just want to enjoy the images then you can see some KL episodes on this channel.

http://www.youtube.com/user/lindamorgane

[LoyaltoAMC]

Personally, I'd add John Pleshette and Joan Van Ark to that list. I've been rewatching seasons 1 and 2, and Pleshette is just phenomenal. Say what you will about Joan, but she really got the character of Val. You can see she poured her heart and soul into it, and there is rarely a false note. Michele Lee was very good the first three seasons, but then she just became so gratingly over the top from then on.

[DRW50]

I was watching the next four episodes I had on the season 2 DVDs.

The episode where Abby and Jeff fought for custody of the kids and then he tried to force himself on Abby but wept and they had sex and then he mistakenly thought this meant they were getting back together. This led to him telling Karen he was going to drop the custody suit, but he wasn't finished. The most interesting thing in this episode was the buildup to the great season 2 cliffhanger when he takes the kids.

The stuff with the lady mechanic who had a crush on Sid. Not that interesting, but I did like the scene where Sid told Karen she'd know if he was cheating because he'd brag about it. Don Murray and Michele Lee had such an easy chemistry (it was sometimes slightly forced with Kevin Dobson). The more I watch these early episodes the more I appreciate Don Murray for his calmness.

They dialed down the GARY FREAKOUT scenes later on didn't they? In the last two episodes of this DVD they had him in meltdown mode. It was kind of unintentionally hilarious.

The third episode was when Valene had colon cancer and they were worried she would have to have a colostomy. The subject matter was fairly brave, as this is not something which is ever spoken about. I think this is an episode which might have been better served with Laura, who was more low-key, because there's a certain amount of overhysteria which tarnishes the episode. Gary smashing up his room, that slightly cringeworthy scene where, after Karen tells Val she loves her, Val goes "Oh" and scrunches up her face like Shirley Temple. The best part of this episode was Bobby's appearance. I can't remember if this is true or not but I think someone from the show might have once said that this was the best KL/Dallas crossover. If so then I agree, because I think this one really hit at Gary's dark side and how the Ewing family saw that and at his relationship with Bobby. The scene where Bobby says he used to hear Jock and Miss Ellie argue with Jock saying Bobby had no Ewing guts and Miss Ellie saying he had Southworth gallantry, but then Bobby says Gary has neither, he has no courage -- it's a killer scene.

The fourth episode -- the hostage crisis! Isn't it odd that what was probably the most action packed episode was the one I remember the least? The most interesting moments in this involve Abby, as Laura rails at her for flirting with a terrorist and Abby makes her see, in a subtly acted moment from Constance Macashin, that she is doing this to save their lives. Then that leads to the great moment with Eric Pierpoint (one of many Knots baddies who would go on to a ton of other stuff) where after a fight she manages to get the gun from him and keeps it on him, while you have Karen and Val failing to do the same with the female terrorist. That is another scene which is slightly spoiled by a stupid facial expression from Michele Lee -- one of many in these episodes. I guess she still wasn't used to not acting for the cheap seats.

This episode had another great Abby moment, when everyone is happy after the crisis has been resolved, and they each go to their own homes...while Abby stands in the street, alone. What I love about Abby is that she was built moment by moment. She started out as just a homewrecker/random vixen but Donna Mills seized on the little morsels which would help us understand Abby and those just stand out so much in seasons 2 and 3.

I appreciate Constance McCashin all over again with her quiet yet powerful work in these episodes, how she manages to take what is inherently pathetic (Laura choosing to stay with a weak man who lashes out at her) as a way to test her own strength. The little scene where she learns the real estate office has closed a big sale and she will get some good money out of it, and while she's upset about what Richard will say, she allows herself a moment of celebration after she hangs up the phone.

I do wonder why her boss/future love interest looks like Bernie Koppel.

Kenny and Ginger didn't have a whole lot to do, I guess the show was losing interest even at this stage. Ginger telling Kenny she's pregnant but not sure if she wants to be with him again. Then the baby shower hostage crisis. I'm always fascinated by Ginger so I guess I take what I can get. The scene where they're in bed together and she says she doesn't know if he should move back in has a BEAUTIFUL music selection. It's so much better than a lot of the music on the show at this time, which is some type of weird electronica attempts at "edgy" or "suspenseful."

[YRBB]

I'm so happy to find more support for Season 3, a brilliantly dark and moody season. You are absolutely right, Karen and Michele Lee were TOP during that year and John Pleshette's slow decline towards his breakdown was heartbreaking.

+1 Total agreement. Pleshette was just a powerhouse of a performer with a great, very real character.

Except for ML... I think she had her good moments and then she had the reaaaaaaaaaly OTT ones lol

Edited August 24, 2010 by YRBB

[EricMontreal22]

:yes: Brideshead is prob my all time fave piece of television and something I rewatch every few years (don't even get me started about how wrong minded the recent movie was in nearly every which way). It's a miniseries with a definite closing, so I won't compare it to open ended soap opera whihc has very different--and probably harder--rules to play by, but I'm definitely behind you. What is absolutely amazing is how it shoulda been a disaster, by everything you read--much of it began filming with no official script and they had to write it as they did it going directly from Waugh's novel, the change in director, etc, etc. Carl I get what you mean about that string of 80s Brit miniseries that are so praised and beloved and I think Brideshead in many ways really started that--even though of course there had been previous literary adaptations that had made similar impact--The Forsythe Saga that was such a hit for PBS in the late 60s, I Claudius in the 70s, and while not based on a novel, of course Upstairs Downstairs around then too (I'm very mixed about the upcoming sequel they're doing for that--another fave of mine--though not as much as Brideshead)

I wouldn't call it depressing (though I know what one finds depressing is relative) although much of the final episodes have devestating moments and sorta an inevitable feeling of loss. OK maybe that is depressing lol, but I love it. (I tend to like depressing things my friends tell me).

(I didn't even realize Keating was in it LOL, but I've never seen too much AW with him...! Of course here he is--playing the questionable Canadian )

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As for Knots, reading all this just makes me want to track down Season 3 all the more. Grrr.

Edited August 27, 2010 by EricMontreal22

[Soaplovers]

Season 3 seems to be the season that has some interesting self-contained episodes along with the ongoing plotlines of Karen's adjustment as a single mother, Abby showcasing her ruthless behavior (i.e. getting her kids back, taking Gary from Val, and trying to snag the wealthy dude to provide financial security for herself and kids), Laura/Richard's marriage breaking up and both seeking out other outlets.

I agree with an earlier post that this season along with season 4, to an extent, was more serial based as opposed to soap-opera based.

[EricMontreal22]

Meaning soap being more melodramatic? Certainly from clips I've seen the later years *look* more soap opera (in an 80s primetime way--glammed up). Hopefully it'll get a DVD release.

Season 3 has the haunted house ep we'vementioned, etc, right?

[DRW50]

Soap in more over the top situations involving stolen babies and terrorists and such. Season 3 was much more natural and focused on natural drama springing from the everyday lives of the characters, yet this did not shoehorn in "issues" which the show wasn't entirely capable of addressing, which kind of hampered the first and second seasons. I think season 3 was a perfect balance.

[All My Shadows]

It's out there........and it's not too hard to find When you find it, I'll help you out with it.

[YRBB]

Yep.

A truly brilliant episode.

[EricMontreal22]

Well I looked the place I got the complete Peyton Place for such a great deal--no Knots. Then there's some Asian bootleg company that has all of Dynasty too but their credit rating and quality rating when I looked into it is HORRIFIC.

[All My Shadows]

I was actually talking about torrents. I found season three (as taped off of SOAPnet) at some site...forgot which one. I still have it seeding on my other computer, but that one's currently out of commission. When I get it back, I'll still have it up because I'm not even touching those eps until I've finished watching my S1 and S2 DVDs.

Speaking of which, I finally got to Land of the Free this morning. WOW. It was like every deliciously cheesy 70s B movie about gangs that you can find. Even the music sounded like something out of The Warriors. Karen and Sid basically screamed the entire episode, the bikers themselves were laughable ("Not ripe enough."), and I still don't quite understand all of the hooping and hollering over them merely driving circles around everyone at the beach. The physical violence was one thing, but at one point, Val is screaming and all they're doing is donuts.

My favorite part was at the very beginning when the one biker drives through the volleyball net and promptly falls off his bike

[DRW50]

Finally finished the last, special featureless, second season DVD.

I had totally forgotten about the episode where Eric was talked into smuggling dope to a party with one of Ginger's sisters and a corruptive Eric Stoltz. I had totally forgotten Ginger had any sisters. Stoltz sprinkles her joint with angel dust, and she has a bad reaction and goes into the water, almost drowning. Eric saves her, but she's still in a coma. While they wait to see if she lives, Eric is in torment, and Sid and the girl's mother both say he is partially responsible since he brought the joints (all I kept thinking was, they aren't going to have any other joints at this party?). This episode has a lot of repetitive dialogue ("a chance is better than no chance at all" "you'll be the man of the hour"), but benefits from the sensitive performance of the late Steve Shaw, who always made Eric so believable because he always just seemed to channel emotions, instead of act. They were wise not to give this story to Diana. This is probably the most tolerable Diana episode ever, as she does not SHOUT, she does not SMIRK, and she tries to support Eric. She also has a great line where she makes up a statistic to Sid about watching TV killing more brain cells than smoking pot. My only real complaint here is that Ginger's mother is in the episode, for one scene, confronting Eric, yet she has no scenes with Ginger! She is the one who made Ginger have an abortion when Ginger was a teenager (which led to Ginger being stalked later on), and yet she has no scene with Ginger now that Ginger is finally pregnant with the child she's always wanted? If anything ever showed just how little respect the show had for Ginger, this was it.

The next episode was Earl Trent, the raging queen (he looks a lot like the one in Boys in the Band, the one with the 'fro) who was married to Jane Elliott and drove her to sleep with Gary, becoming obsessed with Val and trying to get her to sleep with him to somehow even the score. This really didn't work that well - there was a cute guy at the start of the episode, another student, who took up for Val when Earl began belittling her. Temptation between him and Val would have made more sense. This episode also had Laura becoming closer and closer to her boss, as his wife - the divine Rosemary Prinz - and everyone else think they are having an affair. They're not, but they are surely tempted, leading into a big story for the next season. This whole thing has a scene that annoyed me, where Karen smirkily assumes Laura is having an affair, and is all "You go girl" and so on. This had little to do with anything that would actually help Laura, and a real friend would not assume such things. I always had a lot of issues with some of Karen's friendships on the show, and wanted to see more of Laura/Val. Anyway, Scooter was played by John Considine, an actor I have found singularly uncharming - thanks a lot AW - so this didn't quite work for me. It was nice to see Rosemary Prinz, although she had little to do here, she does return for a huge bitch fit in season 3. This particular story, for the rest of the season, ends on Richard and Laura trying to be happy, and it shows the basic chemistry Constance and John Pleshette had.

The next episode features more of JR trying to get Sid's clean fuel engine. Was this story dropped after Sid died? I know David Jacobs said none of the JR crossovers worked, but I think that the ones in season 2 did, especially when he was sharing scenes with Abby, his match in many ways. This story is intertwined with Abby's ex Jeff planning to kidnap the kids, which is kind of undercut because he has a big sign on his forehead saying WILL KIDNAP MY KIDS.

The final episode has the brilliant cliffhanger of Sid going over the cliff with no brakes - Sid screaming OH GOD - chilling, and very effective. Unfortunately there is too much plot for one episode, and I wonder why they didn't stretch it out longer over the last 3-5 episodes of the season. There's also a scene with Abby breaking down over her kids and a tape of them which - no offense Donna Mills - is probably one of Abby's worst ever scenes on the show. There was a much better scene, earlier, where she was alone in the house, and found a blanket or something, and began to cry.