3 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Joshua descent into madness and eventual death was the start of Knots Landing tanking to me.

On the one hand, it's a very timely story being told about the "golden age" of televangelism and the rise of cable TV.  (It's also an almost direct rip-off of "A Face in the Crowd," but that's neither here nor there, lol).  However, you have Alec Baldwin, a then-young hunk with real acting chops, who shares genuine, warm chemistry with Julie Harris and Joan Van Ark, gives Lisa Hartman's Cathy a real purpose on the show that she otherwise lacks, and could help carry KL into the next generation, and this is what you ultimately choose to do with him? 

Someone at Lorimar or CBS should've stepped in and told Mike Filerman to chill the [!@#$%^&*] out.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

On the one hand, it's a very timely story being told about the "golden age" of televangelism and the rise of cable TV.  (It's also an almost direct rip-off of "A Face in the Crowd," but that's neither here nor there, lol).  However, you have Alec Baldwin, a then-young hunk with real acting chops, who shares genuine, warm chemistry with Julie Harris and Joan Van Ark, gives Lisa Hartman's Cathy a real purpose on the show that she otherwise lacks, and could help carry KL into the next generation, and this is what you ultimately choose to do with him? 

I talked a lot about this story when I was watching that season. I do think it's still very topical today, and well done (I think the great Bill Duke shot a few of those eps). But I wonder who was gunning for Baldwin and why they wanted him out so fast. I think it was the Dallas team coming in the following year who said their first marching orders from above were to kill Joshua and end the Empire Valley saga.

Edited October 25Oct 25 by Vee

On 10/24/2025 at 7:54 PM, Khan said:

an almost direct rip-off of "A Face in the Crowd,"

I looked up the summary of that movie and yes, I can see elements of the Joshua storyline there.

It's been posted before that Knots Landing took elements from Scenes From a Marriage and No Down Payment. A YT Video lists The Trouble with Harry as the influence for Peter Hollister and Vertigo as the influence for Ciji/Cathy. Can we think of other classic films/stories that Knots Landing might have taken elements from?

7 hours ago, kalbir said:

Can we think of other classic films/stories that Knots Landing might have taken elements from?

I see elements of '70's conspiracy thrillers like "All the President's Men" and "Three Days of the Condor" in the Wolfbridge Group.  In fact, I think that's one reason why they hired William Devane to play Greg, since he had had a prominent role in "Marathon Man."

Edited October 26Oct 26 by Khan

On 10/24/2025 at 11:01 PM, Vee said:

I think it was the Dallas team coming in the following year who said their first marching orders from above were to kill Joshua and end the Empire Valley saga.

I'd still love to know what the original plan was for Empire Valley.  Did they always intend for it to be a front for some massive spying operation?  And just where the hell did they think they could go with that, lol?

Edited October 26Oct 26 by Khan

With Halloween around the corner, what better time than to do my annual rewatch of one of the most unique of KL episodes 'Three Sisters'.

On the surface, this episode is random and sticks out like a sore thumb... but if you have an analytical mind... you can see that the episode serves as a template for several characters and foreshadows some major plots and character reactions down the line.

So I'll start with the obvious:

1) Foreshadows Val's mental break, her unfulfilled need for being a mother, and never being believed/listened to by everyone.

    As we know, Val had been deprived of the chance to be a mother to her daughter Lucy due to Gary not being man enough to stand up to JR, her mother Lillimae's selfishness at not helping her daughter, and JR being a powerful person that didn't think Val was fit to be a mother.

    We also saw during the episode the women all worried about Val's mental state and not believing that there were any real ghosts until Abby officially shows proof that the ghosts exists.   As we saw in the future.. Val's proclamation that her babies were alive and that Jill tried to kill her were ignored and she was deemed emotionally unfit even though she was proven to be correct both times.. just as what happened in this case.

2) Ginger

     As we came to see, Ginger was almost like the 'spare'... only used if the other women were already occupied.  As @Khanhas stated... Ginger's role seemed to be made null and void once the show decided to make Val one of the female characters since they filled basically the same niche.

      This episode really highlights this with Ginger feeling the same over-whelming sadness at missing her baby the second she came in the house, being drawn to the little girls room just like Val, and sensing right away that there was a spooky presence.   

       When Abby asked why the spirits didn't go after her, Laura stated that Ginger's mother instincts were being fulfilled, while Val's weren't.

       Without realizing it, the writers really highlighted how much Ginger's role was already filled by Val and they didn't think to try to remedy that.

3) Lillimae

      This was her redemption episode, where she finally stepped up was able to save Val when she had failed to do so before when Lucy was a baby.  It helped Val/Lillimae continue to heal their relationship and helped it become a strong element on the show during the peak years.

4) Laura and Karen

       Both seemed to share the same function... and I'll be honest that I didn't think Karen was needed in the episode other than providing the transportation.

       Laura's function as a real estate person made the episode possible, and her ability to stay calm and provide some good sarcastic humor was valuable.

5) Abby

       She was the outsider that also was smart enough to research the property, played a few pranks on the women, be brave to stand up to the creepy caretaker, and was the one to validate Val's claims that the ghosts really did exist.  Just like she was the one to bring Val to her babies when everyone else kept her out of the loop.

 

3 hours ago, Khan said:

I see elements of '70's conspiracy thrillers like "All the President's Men" and "Three Days of the Condor" in the Wolfbridge Group.  In fact, I think that's one reason why they hired William Devane to play Greg, since he had had a prominent role in "Marathon Man."

Wolfbridge gave me action thriller/James Bond feels but I couldn't pinpoint any specific movies it may have taken elements from.

5 hours ago, Khan said:

I'd still love to know what the original plan was for Empire Valley.  Did they always intend for it to be a front for some massive spying operation?  And just where the hell did they think they could go with that, lol?

I puzzled this out awhile back in some posts while watching, and from cross-referencing the copious interviews with fansites that Gollance(?) and I think others involved have said online when you dig around, it seems like the median answer was 'we didn't know.' I think some of the Dunne team have said it became much more elaborate and OTT in S7 than what they intended, but the truth is I think it's been decades, memories are foggy and it's hard to know who intended what when.

I actually do think EV was also a very relevant story for today, like Joshua's commercial evangelism. But it does get OTT.

Edited October 26Oct 26 by Vee

Empire Valley started good in season 6 but became a mess in season 7. Empire Valley season 7 was another storyline that got Knots Landing to tank for me.

5 hours ago, kalbir said:

Wolfbridge gave me action thriller/James Bond feels but I couldn't pinpoint any specific movies it may have taken elements from.

Obviously someone at Lorimar must have enjoyed that type of James Bond style storylines as Knots continued to employ them later with stuff like Ben/Jean, the mysterious Okmin Industries, and the Nigel Treadwell story that closed out the show. 
 

Obviously Falcon Crest suffered through this too between the Cartel, Neo-Nazi’s, and The Thirteen instead something more realistic like a powerful rival vineyardist threatening to take over or destroy FC lol. 

Obviously the already shady oil business was probably more suitable for this James Bond stuff to occur on Dallas and/or Dynasty. As for the Sumner Group it was never quite clear what else they had going on aside from some shady/dodgey real estate and land business. 

10 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Without realizing it, the writers really highlighted how much Ginger's role was already filled by Val and they didn't think to try to remedy that.

Unfortunately, short of turning Ginger into an early version of MP's Kimberly Shaw (i.e., the resident, full-blown psycho hose beast), I don't believe there was any way for the producers to remedy the situation.  For one thing, I think Kim Lankford was a very limited actress.  For another, with all the other women on the show fulfilling very specific needs - Karen as the moral compass whose job is to be the viewers' advocate and the center of calm in all the chaos, Val as the put-upon heroine at the center of the more emotional stories, Abby as the scheming vixen who brings both the sex (for male viewers) and the wish fulfillment (for females), and Laura as the prickly, sarcastic, often mercurial independent woman who's neither a goody-two-shoes (like Karen or Val) nor a raging bitch (like Abby) - which need is left for Ginger to fulfill (again, besides the resident psycho)?  And even if they HAD gone in that direction, would it have been a sustainable one?  I mean, from what I remember, even Kimberly was killed off for good eventually, because there was just nowhere left for her to go.

7 hours ago, kalbir said:

Wolfbridge gave me action thriller/James Bond feels but I couldn't pinpoint any specific movies it may have taken elements from.

True.  It's nothing specific.  But especially when Mack becomes literally OBSESSED with bringing down Wolfbridge - to the point of lying to Karen, who's still recovering from drug addiction - and Gary says, "I think you've gone a little crazy," it kind of brings to mind one of the tropes of movies like "The Parallax View," where it's one guy (in this case, Mack) and his single-minded, all-consuming quest to unravel a vast cartel or conspiracy whose purpose or reach is equally vast and hard for anyone on the outside to grasp.

5 hours ago, Vee said:

I actually do think EV was also a very relevant story for today, like Joshua's commercial evangelism. But it does get OTT.

I mean, isn't there one point where the construction literally traps and kills the dude from the Dos Equis beer commercials?  Or did I miss a scene or two during my unintended nap?

2 hours ago, kalbir said:

Empire Valley started good in season 6 but became a mess in season 7. Empire Valley season 7 was another storyline that got Knots Landing to tank for me.

For me, Wolfbridge and Bobby and Betsy's kidnapping were stories that worked, because they placed characters in actual jeopardy.  Even all that drug smuggling nonsense with Manny Vasquez at Lotus Point (a story told about three years too late, IMO) worked to a degree, because there was a risk of Abby, Karen or Gary losing their lives or those of their loved ones.  But was anyone in real danger with EV?  Hell, who was even INVOLVED in EV, besides Gary, Greg and Abby?  Because, to me, it felt like others were involved either peripherally or not at all.  And you MIGHT get away with that kind of non-umbrella storytelling on a daytime soap, where storylines are often islanded from each other due to the grind of producing a show everyday; but on a primetime soap, everything NEEDS to tie together, or it doesn't work.

1 hour ago, soapfan770 said:

As for the Sumner Group it was never quite clear what else they had going on aside from some shady/dodgey real estate and land business. 

The Sumner Group existed for one reason and one reason only: because KL's biggest competitor at that point was "L.A. Law," which was kicking ass on Thursday nights and siphoning off many longtime fans of KL.  Which is why I'm glad KL finished when it did, because had it made it to the "ER"/"NYPD Blue" era, oh, Lord, lol.

Edited October 27Oct 27 by Khan

4 minutes ago, Khan said:

Which is why I'm glad KL finished when it did, because had it made to the "ER"/"NYPD Blue" era, oh, Lord, lol.

What, you didn't want to see Kevin Dobson's behind?

1 minute ago, Franko said:

What, you didn't want to see Kevin Dobson's behind?

There were times when I didn't want to see the FRONT of Kevin Dobson, let alone the back of him.

11 minutes ago, Khan said:

Which is why I'm glad KL finished when it did, because had it made it to the "ER"/"NYPD Blue" era, oh, Lord, lol.

Not to mention peak 90210 and Melrose.

5 minutes ago, Khan said:

There were times when I didn't want to see the FRONT of Kevin Dobson, let alone the back of him.

Was anyone checking for Kevin Dobson BITD?

I never thought of any of the Knots Landing male cast members as any type of hotness. Did any of them have a glow up that I somehow didn't recognize?

5 minutes ago, kalbir said:

I never thought of any of the Knots Landing male cast members as any type of hotness. Did any of them have a glow up that I somehow didn't recognize?

I think Alec Baldwin came closest.  Not that Alec Baldwin ever was or has been my cup of Ramen, but at that point in his life and career, he was fit and good-looking, too.  If someone hadn't been upset with him or his casting to the point of turning Joshua Rush into a cross between Lonesome Rhodes and Mickey Hughes from "The Burning Bed," I think AB and Lisa Hartman might've matured into one of KL's central couples.

Edited October 27Oct 27 by Khan