Knots Landing

[kalbir]

I never thought of Gary as any type of prize. He was a weak mama's boy that couldn't live up to his father's expectations.

Abby was all about the come up. I didn't feel there was any love between Abby and Gary.

The Val/Gary/Abby triangle worked not because of the triangle itself (why would grown women fight over a weak mama's boy), but because of the character arcs. Val moved on with her life after losing her first love, Gary manned up, and Abby got the come up she was all about.

[Khan]

I agree!

There's a beautifully framed scene (which I've never been able to track down online) that kind of explains Abby's position on her marriage to Gary.  I think she was talking to Greg when she said she liked her marriage, but that if it ever came down to Gary or money, "money's going to win every time."

Edited July 13, 2024 by Khan

[SoapDope]

I wonder what the actors thought when they saw that script ? Michelle Lee really chewed scenery in that episode. That scene where the boys fell in oil and she made them all get in the house and was looking around like she was having a spasm made me LOL. She also made Val get in her house instead of going to her own when they got back from the market, but when Laura came over and wanted to come in, she told her to go make the call for her from her own house ???

Poor Val's house was always getting wrecked. The thugs trashed it during the baby shower, Joshua trashed it after getting fired, Earl Trent broke her fancy new dishes she was proud of....I wonder if Gary took her back down to Sears to get some replacements ? She should have fed the Trents off some Corelle she got on sale at K-Mart. 

[Khan]

Jock Ewing always prized Ewing Oil and having a Ewing Oil dynasty over Southfork Ranch, which is where Gary felt more comfortable, IMO.  In fact, the only Ewing offspring who really cared about Ewing Oil was J.R.  Even Bobby only seemed to care because Pamela cared.

Didn't Gary trash it, too, when Val had cancer?  For some reason, I recall a scene where he swipes everything off the top of the dresser in their bedroom out of frustration.

And God only knows what Val herself did to her house when she had that "brain virus" and was ripping up Gary's clothes and throwing them out on the lawn or whatever, lol.

Edited July 13, 2024 by Khan

[SoapDope]

Yes...he wrecked the bedroom as Sid pounded on the front doors. Sid finally kicked them in and went in to find Gary bawling. Karen entered shortly after. 

LOL at Brain Virus Val....you could tell the writers hated Joan at that point. I'm surprised Jill didn't try to burn Val up inside the house after her failed plot to kill her the first time.

Edited July 13, 2024 by SoapDope

[titan1978]

I love that scene between Greg and Abby. I do think Abby loved Gary for a period of time, as much as she was capable of loving someone. She certainly loved sleeping with him! I think the love dissipates when she sees how bad a drunk he was, followed up by knowing the babies are his. At that point she may have liked her marriage, but she had actual money and resources with Lotus Point that didn’t require Gary to continue.

Season 5, Wolfbridge, and Gary chasing after her all kind of cemented they did love each other for me, even if they knew it was bad news.

Edited July 13, 2024 by titan1978

[Vee]

I think Gary and Abby absolutely loved each other from at least somewhere in Season 5-onward, but bear in mind I just started Season 7 lol. I think Gary really came into his own as a man around S5, though he was growing already in S4 despite his bender. I think a lot of Season 6 is the ideal and apex of their relationship, because there are no illusions there between either of them. It could've run longer, but frankly (as a new viewer) I think it is remarkable they managed to keep Gary and Val apart for at least another what, 3-5 seasons after S7 and the babies. That takes amazing restraint, and I'm sure a number of stories of varying quality.

[DRW50]

As somebody who just does not like the Gary/Val relationship and sees them as toxic and codependent, I would have reunited them a few years before they did. You can tell by that point (by the time of the Jill story ending) they were just in stall mode, and the attempts to keep them apart did more and more damage to the characters (especially Val) because they weren't together, yet the show would never seriously try to give them genuine partners the way they did with Abby and Ben.

It's hilarious. A great deal of the first two seasons have those types of moments - an odd parody of "normal people." It's like the '50s/'60s/'70s romance comics that were written by 50 year old men. Another is the way that the family of the woman who falsely accuses Sid of rape come across. One of the reasons I think the Karen story at the end of season 12 and start of 13 is so awful (possibly one of the worst ever on the show, for me) is because it's a huge jolt back to this very out of touch, patronizing mentality, after the show had mostly pulled itself to a more believable place.

[SoapDope]

There's a hilarious scene in Back To The Cul-De-Sac where Abby is getting ready to move to her new beach house and walks into Karen's house and asks her and Val if they want any of her old furniture. Karen tells her that her house is full and asks Val. Val asks Abby " Do you happen to have an armoire" ? "Gary and I like to lie in bed and watch TV". Abby replies " When Gary and I were married that's the last thing we thought about when we were in bed". " Watch TV"? and rolls her eyes and walks out the door. Karen and Val look at each other and say " Bitch". 

Edited July 13, 2024 by SoapDope

[Khan]

On the one hand, I was ELATED when that story was FINALLY over.  Even at 11-12 years old, I was like, "This is the hottest mess I will ever see!"

But, on the other hand, I feel like the Lechowicks didn't go far enough with it.  Val falls on her head and contracts a "brain virus;" yet, the worse thing she does is cut her hair, change her wardrobe, and boil her kids' hermit crabs?  Come on, lol!

I say, if you're gonna tell a story THAT crazy, you gotta go full-tilt with it.  Have Val do more than just change up her hairstyle and fashion sense and be rude to everybody; have her seduce Mack (or at least try to)!  Have her plot to maim or kill Anne for sleeping with Gary (or so she thinks)!  Have her take the kids and flee the city, Reva Shayne Lewis-style, when she mistakenly thinks the people who kidnapped them years ago are trying to kidnap them again!

The only thing worse than camp - and make no mistake, Val's brain virus was the ESSENCE of camp - is camp with punches pulled.

And thank you, by the way, for mentioning Jill.  Every time I watch a particular episode of "Murder, She Wrote" where Teri Austin (or, rather, her character) is exposed as the killer du jour and arrested, I always think, "What Gary and Val Ewing couldn't do?  Jessica Fletcher did!"

Oh, you have NO idea, lol!  By the time Gary and Val DO reunite, you're pulling for them, not because you want to see them back together and happy, but because you just can't take any more obstacles between them, lol!

I see your point.  Abby was one who never liked being out of control, and for her to see Gary - who, from her point of view, should have been happier, because he was rich - so out of control like that...?  I think it made her rethink that moment when she told Val how she loved Gary for what he could be and not for what he was.

Moreover, where could they even have GONE with that story?  You know jail time and/or large financial settlement with the boy's parents were out of the question, so what was the point?

 

[titan1978]

Also, how could Abby ever fully love someone she knows would always have feelings for Valene? That’s why I think the babies pushed their relationship in the direction of her deciding to enjoy it while it lasts, and not fall any deeper.

I don’t think we ever saw her have anything like the depth and complexity she felt with Gary as far as relationships go.

I am dying for the show to finally land somewhere streaming. I will eventually watch the whole show again, but I know I am starting with season 4 through Laura’s death for my first round.

[DRW50]

The whole thing seemed to exist so we could see how the rich people are vs "real" people. The main problems were that the rich people are the ones we see every episode, not these guest characters, and the "real" people seemed to be out of a very undistinguished local production of Grapes of Wrath.

[Khan]

LOL!!

 

[Soaplovers]

The reason why some fans actually liked Gary and Abby together was because of the slow burn before the two ended up hooking up.  Even in season 2 before the 'are you ready for me now Gary' line, you saw that the two had an instant chemistry with their interactions at Knots Landing motors.  There was an ease in their interactions that it made perfect sense that Abby would find him more appealing.

Season 6 was probably the one season where Gary/Abby were in sync as a team with their working relationship at Lotus Point and their passionate off work time together.  They each understood one another and both probably just decided to enjoy this partnership for as long as they could.  Season 7 was where you started to see the cracks reform again where they loved each other.. but their goals were going in different directions.

At the same time, you saw Val and Ben's relationship going through highs and lows.  He offered a more fun element in her life, they both loved running, both had a passion for writing, and he had the beach house on the Ocean.  

Season 8 was an interesting season to me because it was the only season where Gary and Val were in different orbits with some occasional interaction. 

Gary was off running for office with Abby by his side, he and Abby finally break up, and his relationship with Jill is in full bloom.   Val is starting over in her marriage to Ben, briefly focused on adapting a book into a screenplay, and also deals with the Jean Hackney situation with causes issues in her friendship with Laura while she is powerless in being able to help Ben in his slow decline of his mental health (a reversal in roles).   Oddly Latham's debut season is the season where Val gets the best writing from them.

To me, once Jill's gone at the end of season 10 is when the show should have started the process of reuniting Val and Gary.  Their hesitation in trying for a 3rd time should have been enough of an obstacle without throwing in Danny and the 'brain virus'.

[Khan]

For me, the natural place to reunite Gary and Val was during her "Verna Ellers" phase, when Gary travelled to Shula, Tennessee, and helped Val reclaim her lost identity.  Primetime isn't like daytime.  Audiences' patience is much, much shorter.