Knots Landing

[BetterForgotten]

Most of the prestige dramas that have been successful in recent years have had some sort of serialized structure; audiences are open to that, but on a limited episode format it seems. 

Edited August 22, 2024 by BetterForgotten

[Maxim]

I've read on some other boards that the show will return from season 1 in mid september. Not confirmed info, but just sharing what I read. I do hope it's true.

[1974mdp]

I am loving watching the repeats on Plex! I just wish it was on-demand versus having to watch whatever episode they have playing at the time. But, I was beginning to think the episodes would never be streamed at all!

[soapfan770]

Watching towards the end of Season 10 I forgot how WTF Abby’s final story and exit  with that creepy Ted was before she left along with the final end of Lotus Point, although her scenes with Karen were great as well as her final scene with Brian in the limo.
 

What did you all think of Abby’s strange exit story? 

Poor Brian will get left behind in LA and have to enroll at West Beverly Hills High the following year

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Poor Val straddled with Danny I hate seeing that knowing what’s going to happen next.

Good to see Paula though for sure as I really enjoyed the character in Season 11. She was a great character and written off too soon, I hope I can catch her very memorable exit episode.

I don’t recall much happening with Gary and the mystery woman after he gets off the hook for Jill’s suicide. I seem to recall they have a brief romp and then poof she’s gone.

Looking forward to at least seeing some of S11 particularly Linda’s arrival and the whole triangle between Eric and Michael before Steve Shawn’s tragic demise. I was always glad we at least had a makeup scene between the two brothers in Shaw’s last episode he did before his death.

Edited August 23, 2024 by soapfan770

[kalbir]

There was also the framing of Olivia's boyfriend for drug trafficking which I thought was out of character. Despite being a villainess, I believe Abby loved her children and was for the most part a good mother to them.

I'll always maintain that Knots Landing was effectively over when Abby left and Donna Mills was smart to walk away when she did.

Hahaha, you are killing me. Brian leaves with Abby and we don't see him again for the rest of the regular series.

[soapfan770]

Sigh. All the three Lorimar soaps lost their major iconic leading actress at the end of the 88-89 season I’m at least glad in Mills’ case she left on her own accord and terms. 

It’s interesting all three Lorimar soaps also ended out on quiet finales for a change (Sue Ellen’s movie on Dallas, Richard waiting for his arrest on FC, and Paige left standing in the rain on Knots) yet David Paulsen let Dynasty end the season and the 80’s in a blaze of glory with everyone except Sammy Jo in peril.

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[kalbir]

Budget mode kicked in plus the trifecta of suck at Lorimar (Leonard Katzman, Michael Filerman, Les Moonves) decided that the long-time female cast members were more expendable than the long-time male cast members.

Joan Van Ark left by her own choice in Fall 1992. That left Michele Lee as the only long-time female cast member in the final season and she took a pay cut to appear in all episodes of the final season.

[DRW50]

I think they are, just not in the traditional way. Young people, some of them anyway, go down hours and hours of rabbit holes on tiktok or Youtube. Just as religion has been replaced for many by causes or by worshipping celebrities, soaps have been replaced by a four hour video about the Star Wars hotel.

I will always believe there is a play in American culture for soaps in some format. They just have to figure out that format. My own belief is going back to the 15 minute format might be a good idea.

Of any of the primetime soaps of years past, Knots may be the one that could most succeed today because it wasn't tied to one character or moment. A found family element, along with a focus on buying or renting a home in a period where many can't do so, could generate interest, along with compelling characters and plots.

 

Edited August 23, 2024 by DRW50

[te.]

I'm not sure why people keep saying that serialized dramas don't work - one of the biggest success story of recent years have been Yellowstone, which is basically a western soap opera. 

[te.]

Could be true. "Sisters" should take about five days to air through, "Falcon Crest" around nine-ten days. So assuming these shows are the only ones airing on the Primetime Soaps by WB channel, it would track. 

[Chris 2]

In the season that Constance McCashin and Julie Harris were let go, there were five female regulars and three male. So it’s not surprising that it would be the women who were let go during that season if there were budget cuts, especially since one was older and serving a different purpose than the rest of the regular cast.  Lilimae was there mostly to serve as a Greek chorus; she wasn’t a romantic lead. As much as I liked her, if someone had to go, it made sense that it was her.

Of the regular cast members to appear in the opening credits: Alec Baldwin, Tonya Crowe, Julie Harris, James Houghton, Kim Lankford, Claudia Lonow, Constance McCashin, John Pleshette, and Doug Sheehan all were let go, as opposed to leaving of their own volition. Four men and five women. It’s hard for me to see that they targeted the women over the men especially since the women almost always slightly outnumbered the men in terms of regular cast. The only one you can really argue is controversial is McCashin. I do agree that it was a different story on Dallas.

The regular cast breakdown by the numbers, by season:

• Season 1: Four women; four men
• Season 2: Five women; four men
• Season 3: Four women; four men
• Season 4: Five women; five men
• Season 5: Six women; four men
• Seasons 6 and 7: Six women; five men
• Season 8: Five women; four men
• Season 9: Five women; three men to start, then 3 and 3
• Season 10: Five women; three men
• Season 11: Four women; four men
• Season 12: Four women; five men
• Season 13: Six women; four men
• Season 14: Five women; three men

 

[te.]

Unfortunately, if they were going to cut people in season nine due to budget concerns, both Laura and Lillimae made sense - McCashin and Harris probably earnt a fair amount of money due to their seniority on the show, but both Laura's and Lillimae's roles had diminished through the years. 

Laura had essentially played second-fiddle to Greg since season six at least and Lillimae was mostly used as a talk-to to Val. I can see why both characters ended up on the chopping block as I can't see who else they'd cut to significantly down the budget. Sheehan had already been sent away in the season 8. 

I'm really not sure who else I'd cut except Ben, Lillimae and Laura tbh if I was forced to make cuts.

[Chris 2]

BTW, I’m not trying to claim there wasn’t sexism at Lorimar. Leonard Katzman of “Dallas” clearly cut the women first: Charlene Tilton, Linda Gray, Susan Howard. Victoria Principal was paid about half was Patrick Duffy was paid during their final season together on the show (he got a huge raise to return). Which was patently ridiculous. She was willing to stay for salary parity with him and the producers not only declined it, but released a statement saying she was let go. Victoria is not one to put up with that kind of crap and she and her lawyers forced them to retract their statement.

BTW, Les Moonves, was only in charge of Lorimar’s TV movies and miniseries in 1987, when McCashin and Harris were let go. It’s unlikely that he had a hand in that decision. David Jacobs and Michael Filerman were given a budget to produce the show, and it was likely their choice who to cut.

 

[kalbir]

Also on Falcon Crest. If Jane Wyman hadn't returned for the final three episodes, it would have ended with no long-time female cast members left.

It's quite telling that Dallas final season had none of their long-time female cast members in the main cast. I also think budget mode lead to a salary cap and the bulk of Dallas salary budget went to Larry Hagman and Patrick Duffy.

Les Moonves was promoted to Head of Creative Affairs in 1988 and became President of Lorimar in 1990, so his rise at Lorimar overlaps with the salary dumping of the long-time female cast members and the hiring of sweet young things on the cheap across all three shows. We all know his notorious "when I got to CBS" comment so I wouldn't be surprised at all if he had a similar sentiment about his time at Lorimar.

[Soaplovers]

 

I do think Abby's final season story was out of character for her.  I noticed that Donna Mills really leaned into her facial expressions in order to give Abby some depth and humanity.

During the Ted/Abby scenes in the final few episodes, I took note of Abby's facial expressions.. and you could see there was fear on her face as Ted was confessing.  I think Donna Mills did that to show that even though Abby was expressing that a line had been crossed, she still wanted to show that Abby knew lines were being crossed by her facial expressions.

Same with the final scene between Abby/Olivia where you saw Abby's expression after leaving Olivia's apartment.. where she felt sorrow/sadness after cutting her daughter off.   I think she did the right thing cutting Olivia off, and I also like that her early working class life was mentioned.  It showed that Abby didn't want her daughter to struggle like she had, but realized deep down that Olivia needed to struggle in order to understand what she was saying.

I did like the final exchange between Greg/Abby where they both realized that their 'marriage' lacked communication.  Even though he and Paige were good together.. his true love was Laura.