Generations Discussion Thread

[RevaChancellor]

This was a great listen! I would love for Alan to do a followup with Sally about her time at Y&R (each of her 3 stints) and DAYS. She very much seemed like an open book.

[amybrickwallace]

Writer Michele Val Jean was mentioned a couple of times during this interview. I'd love to see her get her own interview.

[victoria foxton]

She wrote the classic Doreen/Maya catfight. But i cringe at the thought of an inept Alan interviewing her.

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Edited October 1, 2021 by victoria foxton

[amybrickwallace]

I know that Michael Fairman has done some Zoom interviews with soap personalities, but I've never seen any of them. Is he a better interviewer?

[victoria foxton]

I only seen a couple with MF. I would say he is a touch better. 

[amybrickwallace]

It's just a shame that the interviewers only seem to have two ranges - uninformed and fangirl.

[dc11786]

I'm making my way through the interview (seen about an hour so far) and very interested. 

Sussman Morina talking about the origins of the development was interesting. I knew the African American family angle was suggested by Brian Frons. I did not realize that the success that New World had selling "Santa Barbara" overseas was a major factor in why NBC wanted to produce their own in-house soap opera. In many ways, you can see how that element plays out in the show. Initially, the show's tone is very stoic and clearly influenced by Sussman's experience at "The Young and the Restless" without the solid plotting that was need to make the day to day writing interesting. There were concepts that were floated around (Ruth wanting to buy the old Marshall house, Hugh Gardner's inheritance, Jessica's alcoholism) that were intriguing but poorly executed. Even Martin Jackson buying the Marshall Ice Cream stock wasn't as interesting as it could have been. 

By the end of the year, the show was much more colorful and had much quicker pace. Jason Craig's "murder" worked well as it tied several couples together under one story. Similarly, introducing the Winston Hotel, the Chicago branch of the Hale hotel chain, worked well. The secret of Danielle's paternity was very effective as well as the Maya / Adam / Doreen / Daniel quad. Jorn Winter definitely injected the show with some energy that wasn't really there by the summer time. 

All the actors spoke about the chemistry, and I agree a bit. As I said, I haven't finished, but I wonder if anyone asked about the possibility of pairing Adam and Sam, which was flirted with occassionally. 

Jonelle Allen was delightful. Her getting choked up about Kristoff St. John was very poignant. I wonder how much of Doreen was influenced by Allen herself given the singing and the struggle with alcohol. Allen as Doreen (along with Joan Pringle as Ruth) really manages to make the character's throughline very strong. I have seen some (and have some) of the final months, but I really would like to see more of her interaction with nephew Tyrone. 

I thought Rick Fitts' comments about playing a villain were interesting. Martin was definitely an Alan Spaulding type and I do wish they had managed to find a way to keep Martin in the story as I enjoyed him a lot. I know they chemistry tested him with a couple of people (Sharon Brown's Chantal, Maya), but they eventually just dumped him in Brazil. 

Nancy Sorel seems sweet. Monique was very dull. Early on, there were just too many characters in places of employment without overlap with a bunch of side characters associated with them. Jason and Monique were pretty bland after they removed Sam from the equation. 

George De Loy's character Rob Donnelly was enjoyable in his pairing with Linda Gibboney's Jessica. Like Fitts, I wish they had managed to find a place for him on the canvas as I really liked him in the Daniel Reubens underground storyline. 

I think they chose a good group. The only person I really wish they could have gotten was Joan Pringle. I wouldn't have minded Gail Ramsey or Linda Gibboney, but I would have really loved to hear Pringle speak about playing Ruth.

[amybrickwallace]

She really was delightful. My grandma was a huge Dr. Quinn fan, so I knew Ms. Allen from there. 

I wished Ms. Allen had been asked about her guest spot in an early episode of Barney Miller as an overeager rookie cop who fears being jettisoned from the 12th Precinct. I can still hear her wailing, "we don't wanna go to Staten Island!!!"

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[amybrickwallace]

Here is Jonelle Allen in the 1975 episode of Barney Miller, entitled "Hot Dogs":

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[te.]

Honestly, I find this a bit contradictory - in general shows that focuses on African-Americans have always had a bit of a rougher time selling in overseas markets (Empire bombed despite being huge in the US; Tyler Perry's shows aren't in general shown etc; so it had to be even rougher in the late 80s, even with The Cosby Show and Family Matters managing to cross over to the international market), so adding that as a main aspect to the show when the goal was supposedly to sell it overseas seems a bit like shooting themselves in the foot.  Then again, at least that explains why they threw it in such a historically bad time slot and then gave up on it quickly when it didn't really end up selling.

[amybrickwallace]

I was waiting for Sally Sussman to address if they had any plans for interracial romance if the show had not been canceled. They did heavily tease Adam/Sam in at least one promo:

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[dc11786]

I think "Generations" had massive potential, but it was rarely able to get all the pieces working at the same time. 

For example, I was rewatching some episodes I have from May 1989. For the most part, they are nothing special. The show is very low key. There is nothing that really grabs me as a viewer and demands that I watch this everyday, but the potential is there. 

The relationship between Laura Whitmore McCallum and Ruth Potter Marshall is fascinating. Both women had grown up in the same home and attended the same school. When Laura was done with something, it was handed down to Ruth. I would have loved to seen Laura's reaction to the revelation that not only had Ruth slept with her father, but that Chantal was Laura's half-sister. 

Joan Pringle, by herself, could have carried the show, and, at times, she did, often with the help of Jonelle Allen. Gail Ramsey seems incredibly capable, but Laura is dull as dirt. It would have been much more interesting to me if Laura was as desperate to maintain her privileged status as Ruth was to make it in the social circles of the Chicago North Shore elite. In a way, Laura is such a passive character, while Ruth is such an active character. 

I would have continued to find ways to keep Laura and Ruth together. It would have been interesting if Trevor's agency was suppose to be behind the marketing blitz that would have been used to launch Marshall's ice cream nationally. It would have put more at stake for this Marshall - Jackson deal. Also, I think it would have been interesting if the Women's Arts Council story had been something of a more competitive nature. Also, if the show wasn't going to go with Sam and Adam immediately, maybe the show could have explored Monique and Wally Beaumont and force Ruth and Laura to deal with that situation. 

Also, I think it would have been interesting if they paired Martin and Laura up after they both had divorced their spouses. I think Ruth would have a few choice words about that. Also, if Martin ended up in jail briefly, with Laura taking over the reigns of Jackson's business interests, Laura would have a say in Marshall Ice Cream. 

The Whitmores fall apart pretty quickly as a family unit. Once Laura and Trevor divorce, Laura is in a C-romance with Martin's right hand man and is a juror on the Eric Royal trial. JD is the first contract role jettisoned. Neither Trevor nor Rebecca make it on contract for a full year. Ultimately, it's just Sam and Monique, and Monique's story dries up too. Peter's return set up potential for the family to reemerge, but I wonder if it would have been successful. 

[amybrickwallace]

That might have helped the show!

[Soaplovers]

Soaps take up to 2 years to get going, which NBC never seemed to understand.  And the fact that it was placed in a time slot that damaged two previous soaps (The doctors and SFT) was boneheaded.

I wonder if Dorothy Lyman should have been cast to play Laura instead of Rebecca?  I know she was doing Mama's Family when the soap started, but I think she should have been recast to play Laura.  She and Ruth could have gone at it.

From watching, it seemed like the writers had a firm grasp at writing strong AA characters with Doreen, Ruth, Henry, Adam, Chantal, etc.

It also seemed like the show was hitting its stride when it got canceled with a cliffhanger to boot.

[amybrickwallace]

They definitely should have put them on later in the day, but where? 4 pm after SB?