Where is Mark?!

I agree.

Would you like to elaborate ClassicSoapFan?

Where is Mark?!

Would you like to elaborate ClassicSoapFan?

What else do you need to know? He's overrated for a show that is overrated. His work has always been slow and mundane. Agnes Nixon has always been very socially relevant, not campy like Bill. Yet, you don't really hear her praised as much as your here Bill and the rest of the Bell's. His son Bradley is as much as hack as Guza, Pratt, Brown & Esenstine.

I think most people praise him because they look at the long time success of Y&R, but you must remember, Bill Bell had to make many changes in the beginning because the show wasn't an instant success. He also wrote out the entire original cast except for Jill by the 1980s. The show did decline when it was moved to 1pm EST. So, like I said due to some of the shows success (or most of) it's because of it's early time period. And again, most people would just naturally assume a writer is so incredible because their show has been number 1 for so long by not looking at all the pieces of it's upward mobility through the Neilson's.

Here is a question for you Sylph, do you think Bill Bell is not overrated, if so, please elaborate.

Here is a question for you Sylph, do you think Bill Bell is not overrated, if so, please elaborate.

I like reading clever replies, what can I do.

Do I find him overrated? I don't know; I am re-evaluating him. Whereas there are things where he is still the supreme master (payoffs, angst-ridden love stories, great climaxes, he wrote rich people best...), there are also some serious shortcomings (endless recycling of stories, snail pace, non-existent ear for dialogue, at times pretentious and naively didactic...)...

Edited April 20, 200916 yr by Sylph

I loved what Bill Bell did on DAYS. I was never able to get into Y&R ... and I gave it many chances through the years.

I like reading clever replies, what can I do.

Do I find him overrated? I don't know; I am re-evaluating him. Whereas there are things he is still the supreme master (payoffs, angst-ridden love stories, great climaxes, he wrote rich people best...), there are also some serious shortcomings (endless recycling of stories, snail pace, non-existent ear for dialogue, at times pretentious and naively didactic...)...

I think he wrote the rich pretty well. I think Agnes also created the rich on her shows rather good as well. For example, the Lord's of Llanview and the Tyler's of Pine Valley were the epitome of how the rich from Philadelphia's Main Line lived. The new moneyed Cortlandts and Chandler's were very good as well. The European Marick's were also great, very dark.

But back to Y&R, I think he dependent on that a lot to keep the interest of the audience, family's like the Abbott's, Chancellor's and Newman's front and center instead of the more realistic Foster's.

IA with a lot of the pros and the cons about Bill Bell's writing indicated here. However, to say that Agnes Nxon never gets the love that Bill Bell does? I don't know about that. Agnes is considered a goddess around here. I have never heard one iota of criticism about her vision or her writing on this thread -- or, indeed, anywhere else on SON. When people talk about the Jesse-Angie reunion and its critical and commercial success in helping to lift AMC out of Cancellationville, there are still those who believe that Nixon came in from the shadows to pen that story alone.

IA with a lot of the pros and the cons about Bill Bell's writing indicated here. However, to say that Agnes Nxon never gets the love that Bill Bell does? I don't know about that. Agnes is considered a goddess around here. I have never heard one iota of criticism about her vision or her writing on this thread -- or, indeed, anywhere else on SON. When people talk about the Jesse-Angie reunion and its critical and commercial success in helping to lift AMC out of Cancellationville, there are still those who believe that Nixon came in from the shadows to pen that story alone.

No, I know what you mean. I wasn't implying that Agnes was under appreciated. I know she is highly praised and regarded all around for her work. I think the success of Y&R which I also believe has much to do with the time it comes on contributes to more of the Bell hype.

No, I know what you mean. I wasn't implying that Agnes was under appreciated. I know she is highly praised and regarded all around for her work. I think the success of Y&R which I also believe has much to do with the time it comes on contributes to more of the Bell hype.

I also think Agnes is better than Bill in one other thing: variety. Bill really wasn't a diverse stories writer. At least, compared to Agnes.

Bill's peak was his DOOL. Then it was downwards...

I also think Agnes is better than Bill in one other thing: variety. Bill really wasn't a diverse stories writer. At least, compared to Agnes.

Bill's peak was his DOOL. Then it was downwards...

Sylph, do you have any favourite stories penned by Agnes that speak to her diversity as a writer?

Sylph, do you have any favourite stories penned by Agnes that speak to her diversity as a writer?

How did you understand my remark? I meant that she wrote rich people, middle class, poor, she wrote health & social issues, she wrote romance and business intrigue. When Bill attempted something like that, social issues for example, he was too didactic and preachy. And some things — he didn't attempt at all. She also helmed or created a platoon of very different shows: Guiding Light after that famous Irna Phillips write-off, Another World, One Life, Children and Loving! All very, very distinct, different shows. Whereas take a look at Bill. There's a big difference.

Edited April 20, 200916 yr by Sylph

How did you understand my remark? I meant that she wrote rich people, middle class, poor, she wrote health & social issues, she wrote romance and business intrigue. When Bill attempted something like that, social issues for example, he was too didactic and preachy. And some things — he didn't attempt at all. She also helmed or created a platoon of very different shows: Guiding Light after that famous Irna Phillips write-off, Another World, One Life, Children and Loving! All very, very distinct, different shows. Whereas take a look at Bill. There's a big difference.

Understood, and very true.

And if you wondered, Adam, who do I think to be the greatest soap writers, here is an answer: Harding Lemay and Douglas Marland. No one like those two.

Harding Lemay and Douglas Marland.

Two very different writers IMO. Lemay might have been Marland's mentor, but Marland's GL and ATWT had a significantly different tone and structure than Lemany's AW from everything I've read so far.

By all means, Marland strikes me more as a traditionalist when it comes to soaps, Lemay, not so much.

Two very different writers IMO. Lemay might have been Marland's mentor, but Marland's GL and ATWT had a significantly different tone and structure than Lemany's AW from everything I've read so far.

By all means, Marland strikes me more as a traditionalist when it comes to soaps, Lemay, not so much.

Where did this come from?!

Who said anything about their similarity? I like them precisely because of their difference. And what does traditionalist mean? You don't like him?

Your list is topped by Nancy Curlee?

And if you wondered, Adam, who do I think to be the greatest soap writers, here is an answer: Harding Lemay and Douglas Marland. No one like those two.

I always enjoyed Douglas Marland. My two all time favorite's in order are Agnes Nixon and Douglas Marland.