Oh....I thought we were talking about Lane Davies..... Silly me

Don't feel bad. I thought the same thing. It's made lots of posts outside of the Y&R thread pretty damn confusing for me.

I'm a little dense... :lol:

Some more unpopular goodness...

General

~ I'm black, but I've rarely "related" with most of the major black families in daytime. No more than I've related to the "white folk" at least. My parents aren't cops nor is my aunt a lawyer (AMC's Fryes), my mother and I aren't doctors and my father still isn't a cop (AMC's Hubbards), my mother still isn't a doctor and my father still isn't a cop (DAYS's Carvers), my mother isn't a lawyer, neither is my cousin and I'm not a cop (ATWT's Griffins), my parents aren't corporate folks involved in the cosmetics industry (Y&R's Winterses), and I'm pretty damn sure my mother isn't some slutty white woman (B&B's Marcus and Donna). Occupations alone, and the things that go along with them (nice homes, nice cars, the cash, etc), are reason enough for me to not relate to any of the above. Hell, my family is a lot more like the one from "Roseanne" than the one from "The Cosby Show."

~ This might be more of an observation than an opinion, but things aren't tea and scones when it comes to soaps in the UK either. All it takes is a look around at some of the UK-based soap boards to see that many of them think that what they have now is utter bullshit compared to what they used to get from their soaps.

~ I take back one of my previous statements, the one about Gloria Monty. Whoever replied to me was right. Her ideas and innovations didn't ruin anything, but the inability for TPTB in soaps to let different thing cohabitate has ruined everything. I think it comes from the writers of soap A seeing that soap B is doing a sci-fi storyline, so soap A's writers are jealous and want to write soap B, but they can't, so they try to make soap A as much like soap B as possible.

~ I cringe every time I hear the word supercouple, even when it's used for real deal supercouples.

~ I'm not in the camp of "everything about today's soaps suck! and everything about soaps 20 years ago was brilliant!"

~ Soaps would do a lot better, I think, if different types could just cohabitate. Have a ridiculously outdated 15 minute soap on in the mornings, then have a sexy, youth soap in the afternoon. Reaching the entire audience means creating a wide spectrum of stuff for us to watch.

I don't find this unpopular just because it's the truth!! Although -I think Roseanna and the Cosby show come from two separate generations- Soaps back in the day had a range of economic statuses to refer from- everyone on soaps have money- except the few whom will be rich in no time. The emotional connection to these shows is gone. It's all cognitive. There aren't many points of view presented on a storyline. If something happens, it happens to two characters- rich, white, and under the beliefe that love will triumph and hot sex can make up for everything.

Some more unpopular goodness...

General

~ I'm black, but I've rarely "related" with most of the major black families in daytime. No more than I've related to the "white folk" at least. My parents aren't cops nor is my aunt a lawyer (AMC's Fryes), my mother and I aren't doctors and my father still isn't a cop (AMC's Hubbards), my mother still isn't a doctor and my father still isn't a cop (DAYS's Carvers), my mother isn't a lawyer, neither is my cousin and I'm not a cop (ATWT's Griffins), my parents aren't corporate folks involved in the cosmetics industry (Y&R's Winterses), and I'm pretty damn sure my mother isn't some slutty white woman (B&B's Marcus and Donna). Occupations alone, and the things that go along with them (nice homes, nice cars, the cash, etc), are reason enough for me to not relate to any of the above. Hell, my family is a lot more like the one from "Roseanne" than the one from "The Cosby Show."

~ This might be more of an observation than an opinion, but things aren't tea and scones when it comes to soaps in the UK either. All it takes is a look around at some of the UK-based soap boards to see that many of them think that what they have now is utter bullshit compared to what they used to get from their soaps.

~ I take back one of my previous statements, the one about Gloria Monty. Whoever replied to me was right. Her ideas and innovations didn't ruin anything, but the inability for TPTB in soaps to let different thing cohabitate has ruined everything. I think it comes from the writers of soap A seeing that soap B is doing a sci-fi storyline, so soap A's writers are jealous and want to write soap B, but they can't, so they try to make soap A as much like soap B as possible.

~ I cringe every time I hear the word supercouple, even when it's used for real deal supercouples.

~ I'm not in the camp of "everything about today's soaps suck! and everything about soaps 20 years ago was brilliant!"

~ Soaps would do a lot better, I think, if different types could just cohabitate. Have a ridiculously outdated 15 minute soap on in the mornings, then have a sexy, youth soap in the afternoon. Reaching the entire audience means creating a wide spectrum of stuff for us to watch.

GREAT post! About the race thing--that always bugs me. Even now (when most white kids seem to listen to "black" music etc etc0 there's this tv conception that people identify only with their own race. I'm gay and I still identify and can relate to lotsa straight romances and not to some of the few gay ones. I remember with last year's "Cuban/American" soap Cane many critics said that white people just won't watch--it wasn't a brilliant show (though I thought it had potential) but when I watched I never thought that I just couldn't relate cuz of the races. These shows ar emeant to be telling universal stories and emotions here...

E

Wow, I thought I was the only one that liked Cane. I agree it was not brilliant, but it was entertaining for the short time it was on and their race was not even an issue.

Edited August 21, 200817 yr by lifeisgood

It definetly had potential--CBS acutally surprisingly seemed to be standing behind it too but then they just let it fall. But yeah I didn't knwo one other person, even online, who watched it it seemed, so..But I was emabrassed that TV magazines said it had little hope because white Americans would have little interest...

Edited August 21, 200817 yr by EricMontreal22

It definetly had potential--CBS acutally surprisingly seemed to be standing behind it too but then they just let it fall. But yeah I didn't knwo one other person, even online, who watched it it seemed, so..But I was emabrassed that TV magazines said it had little hope because white Americans would have little interest...

My mother and I, African-Americans, both watched CANE...she in fact loved it and is upset that it isn't returning...I too thought it had potential, and I never thought the show would have trouble attracting broad audiences. The problem was the show never POPPED...you know, it was like the fuse of a firecracker had been lit, but it never went off. The drama never reached a fever pitch to excite audiences and get people talking. It spent far too much time in extending conversations about sugar and ethanol, when what was needed was a soft-pedaling of the business issue and more family and romantic conflict.

Just a little bump, it's been awhile lol

One Life to Live

-Not seeing this psychological brilliance that everyone else is.

Ditto that! Everytime I've tried watching it lately, I'm just like... huh?

GREAT post! About the race thing--that always bugs me. Even now (when most white kids seem to listen to "black" music etc etc0 there's this tv conception that people identify only with their own race. I'm gay and I still identify and can relate to lotsa straight romances and not to some of the few gay ones. I remember with last year's "Cuban/American" soap Cane many critics said that white people just won't watch--it wasn't a brilliant show (though I thought it had potential) but when I watched I never thought that I just couldn't relate cuz of the races. These shows ar emeant to be telling universal stories and emotions here...

E

I think there is a difference between a show making race and issue, and a show that views race as a non-issue. Soaps view race as an issue, while shows like Cane set up culture to create a strong backstory. If race is an issue, it limits storyline and I don't feel as though I am going to get the best from the writers. I also don't identify with that mindset and therefore, cannot watch no matter the theme or focus.

Cane focused on more than just Latin culture- family, money, politics, etc....but if that show were to go on for 40 years and end up with an all white, black, asian cast, I would be really confused. Or if I were to turn on the LWord and the cast were miraculously straight, I would be offended to my core. What I loved about Cane is that it showed an angle of Latin culture that Americans are in desperate need of. These shows seem to be catering to the hateful people that are still out there. (Try getting on craigslist and typing in black women- there are plenty of hateful people out there.) The networks forgot about the success that could come from investing in these shows.

If race is an issue, it limits storyline

Race doesn't limit story.

"Color Blindness" does.

Race doesn't limit story.

"Color Blindness" does.

IN reference to daytime television- race does appear to limit their storytelling abilities. It's obvious they don't let character and storyline develop naturally, they try and sideswipe as much controversy as possible.

Race truly does enhance s/l, but when the people are writing for a daytime drama, they seem more burdened by their responsibilities to the networks, than they are excited about telling a diverse story from all points of view regardless of age, sex, or color.

UNPOPULAR OPINIONS! UNPOPULAR!

I think it's true that a good story can be told through characters of any race. Of course there are issues like job discrimination or diseases that tend to affect people of certain ethnicities, et cetera. But I think where soap writers have missed the ball when writing for non-white characters is a sense of cultural flavor. It's not about stereotyping or generalizing, and Dru saying, "Oh no she di'int!" is not what I'm talking about. A white family, a black family, and a Chinese family may live on the same block and have the same conversation over dinner, but it won't sound the same. It'll be, er, "colored" by unique cultural expressions, old sayings, different points of view. So when writers in the past have said, "I don't know how to write for a black woman", well for one, they better learn how to or hire another writer, but I don't take great offense to that as some people have. I think it's a very valid point. I know it may sound odd to some, but for some of the black, latin, asian posters out there, have you ever seen a character of your race do something on a show and think, "A (...) person wouldn't do that"?

UNPOPULAR OPINIONS! UNPOPULAR!

Uh...

I thought Vange and Todd were hot together, hotter than with Vange and John, but I'm glad they were never put together. Although, I think even with Vange as his guardian angel, so to speak, Todd would still be capable of being horrendous. (See: Dorian Lord)

I think it's true that a good story can be told through characters of any race. Of course there are issues like job discrimination or diseases that tend to affect people of certain ethnicities, et cetera. But I think where soap writers have missed the ball when writing for non-white characters is a sense of cultural flavor. It's not about stereotyping or generalizing, and Dru saying, "Oh no she di'int!" is not what I'm talking about. A white family, a black family, and a Chinese family may live on the same block and have the same conversation over dinner, but it won't sound the same. It'll be, er, "colored" by unique cultural expressions, old sayings, different points of view. So when writers in the past have said, "I don't know how to write for a black woman", well for one, they better learn how to or hire another writer, but I don't take great offense to that as some people have. I think it's a very valid point. I know it may sound odd to some, but for some of the black, latin, asian posters out there, have you ever seen a character of your race do something on a show and think, "A (...) person wouldn't do that"?

Pretty much.

I'm sick of fans of a certain popular soap going into to threads about another popular one and bashing it when they don't even watch just because it was getting more discussion.