EastEnders: Discussion Thread

[Ann_SS]

I know I said this before, but I believe that Christian loves Syed. However, I don't buy that Syed is in love with Christian. I agree with b and c, but all soap couples are this way when they are engaged in forbidden affairs. As much as I loved Dennis and Sharon, they were the same way when they for months when they were sneaking around behind Zoe and Den's back. Either Sharon was trying to get Dennis back or he was trying to her back. It was tears and pleading as much much as I loved them, after awhile I had had enough even though I knew that is just part of the drama.

I don't believe that Christian is just about the forbidden affair with Syed. I think he totally and completely loves Syed. Don't know why, but he does. He never wanted to be back in the closet with Syed. I actually think that it is to Christian's credit that he wanted his relationship with Syed to be out in the open. I think like with John Paul, Christian fell in love with a man who has/d a lot of self-loathing and couldn't pull himself out of the drama because he kept hoping that Syed would come out. I'm very sympathetic towards Christian in this regard.

Also, got to say that I didn't see the Christian/Steven Beale story like you did. I think Christian enjoyed toying with Steven, but wasn't interested in him romantically at all.

I didn't see it as Christian trying to break Zainab. She was taunting him and keep pushing. Christian, I think tried to walk away, but he has a temper and a point where he loses control. It makes him very human which is why I have come to like his character.

I think if ME was a better actor, I would have more sympathy for Syed. I do feel sorry for him to some degree, but Amira's pain is on his head. He proposed to show Christian that he didn't have feelings for him and didn't want him which is horrible. Not much different to why Criag proposed to Sarah.

This reminds me of Craig and Sarah. I never saw the great pain of acting straight with them either. I blame the showrunners for not dealing with this. I wouldn't mind if ME leaves and the role of Syed is recast a few months later.

Finally about Zainab, I think that she is very much loved by her children. She is a difficult woman, yes, but Tamwar and Syed's frustration with her domineering manner is overshadowed by their obvious love for and devotion to her. Even though she and Masood are not in a good place, I think that it is clear that it is his love for her that makes it difficult for him to leave her completely.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Ann_SS

[DRW50]

With Craig the show seemed to try to say that he still desired women and the only man he cared about was John Paul. They just did such a poor job of showing Craig's point of view that it often seemed he wanted both John Paul and Sarah, or he only wanted John Paul so no one else could have him.

With Syed, they have tried to say he has never loved any woman and he has only ever loved or wanted men. I don't think Marc Elliot ever put that across in his scenes with Amira.

I really wish they'd had Syed's coming out storyline before he ever got involved with Christian, because the lines have been so blurred, and instead of being happy that Syed has accepted his being gay, I end up thinking that he is just rushing into a relationship instead of actually taking time to figure out where his life should go. The other problem is that the show has implied that everyone should accept Syed's relationship with Christian and that goes hand-in-hand with accepting Syed's homosexuality, when actually I think the Masoods have very good reason to not accept his relationship with Christian, even if they accept that Syed is gay.

I agree with you, that her kids love her, and she can be overbearing and they have to love her in spite of that. I think where I get confused is when they go back and forth over whether Masood or Zainab should be more to blame for some of the problems with how they reacted to Syed. Sometimes Masood has thrown all the blame on Zainab, and they have Zainab saying and doing crazy things while Masood feels sorry for Syed. Yet on other occasions Masood led the charge in driving Syed out of the family.

[Ann_SS]

I agree completely. I'll be interested in seeing what happens now that ME has to play Syed in an openly gay relationship.

I see your point, but I think that the drama that captivates the audience in this story lies in Christian and Syed's love for each other. Syed is such a new character that his coming out by itself while appealing so a small segment audience, would not have simply not been interesting to the wider audience. On the other hand, Christian is the well established character with some popularity so it is natural that the audience would be interested in what happens to him as it relates to his love affair with Syed.

I honestly don't think that Syed is rushing into a relationship with Christian. They are in a relationship albeit an occasionally dysfunctional one, if anything Syed's life has been derailed by not being with the man that he loves. He has not been able to get on with his life because he was in a constant state of fear and panic. Now that he is with Christian openly, I do think that things will be better for Syed because honestly, other than Christian who could put with his constant sniveling? In time Zainab and Masood will come around because they can't ignore their son forever and all will be well with him and his parents. I wonder about Christian though. If Kirkwood is smart, he will show Christian struggling to be in a committed relationship with Syed who is far more conservative. Can Christian give up his parties, stop getting into trouble with Roxy, flirting, and be faithful?

At this point, everyone has behaved so appallingly that I don't think that anyone is in a position to disapproving of Christian and Syed's relationship. It is what it is. It is just time to move forward.

I think it is a way for the writers to show that both Zainab and Masood share this religious bigotry about homosexuality. Masood on the surface appears more accepting and understanding than Zainab, but we have seen that in fact, he is capable to being quite cruel like when he threw out Zainab and then decided to abandon his sons. On one hand, Masood says he can't Syed, but demands that he stop being gay. I think that is a wonderfully even hand approach that we don't see soaps in the U.S. where there is usually one bad guy and one good guy in this type of situation.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I had forgotten all about Phil slapping the sh!t out of Sharon after she went to confront him about having Dennis beat up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rkznIv54aw

If anyone is interested in Shannis (Sharon & Dennis) clips, someone has created a Youtube channel devoted to only them:

http://www.youtube.com/user/EEShannis

[DRW50]

I guess where I wish they'd focused on Syed first is that they bill the story as being about a man and his faith but generally it's been more about will they/won't they and a secret affair. I think a month or two showing Syed struggling privately, perhaps have an old boyfriend show up in Walford to try to see Syed, then after that, the relationship with Christian could have started. But I do agree that the story certainly has captivated some viewers.

I do wonder about that. Christian was initially very wild, he had a lot of parties and one-night stands. After the complaints about his kissing scene with one of his short term boyfriends, that was toned down, and then with Syed they toned it down even more, because they didn't want to cause offense. So now will they bring back any of that aspect of Christian? Eastenders, like all other soaps, have never really had a very sexual gay couple, so it will be interesting how this is handled, and how Christian's life is handled. I wish they could use this opportunity to bring in one or two more gay or bisexual characters, male and female.

It seems like when I look at various boards Zainab tends to get more blame than Masood, perhaps because she's had the more extreme moments. I just hope that none of this causes people to not ever be able to accept her character, because before this started late last year she was becoming a very popular character, and now it seems like she's often seen only in the light of Syed's judgmental mother. I hope soon they will give her other material, because Nina can play anything.

Poor Cheryl Fergison. I hope this story is a wind-up...

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/news/a245958/fergison-lover-cheryl-is-fat-and-old.html

[Ben]

I was just thinking about her the other day, and what Santa said about her character not being needed, b/c they already have Syed, who fills her dynamic. I think that's rubbish; her character is very much needed, and would have presented a different dynamic. I strongly believe that if Shabnam had still been around, she would've been calling Syed out for being selfish, and raking him over the coals for blaming everyone else for his problems, but himself. I see Shabnam as being a mixture of Zainab and Tamwar, in that she would support Syed, but not condone his treatment of Amira (even though Tamwar didn't, but he's so much more passive in his approach, whereas Shabnam probably wouldn't have been). I also think it would've been interesting to see who Shabnam would've sided with over her parents marital dramas. And what would've happened, say, if she stumbled across the whole Mas & Jane kiss? There have been missed opportunities in not recasting her and bringing her back.

This is why I wanted Syed to be bi, and not simply gay. Well, that and I'm bored of seeing gay characters created, while side lining bisexual characters, who never really get represented all that well. I think there would've been more scope with having Syed being bi, not just with Amira, but also with Christian - who he would've still ultimately have chosen, b/c that's who he's in love with - as it would've given them the material to show that gay people can be just as prejudice, as Syed's parents. It could've added another layer to their supercouple romance.

That was what I was trying to say in my earlier post, but you sum it up better. I just hope that ME develops Syed a bit more; show the progression in is character, instead of allowing him to feel as if he's not moving with the plot.

I think your last point would create some good character conflict between the pair. These two are complete opposites in a lot of ways, and seeing them work through that, while constantly butting heads, and having to learn to compromise and except each other for who they are, while learning that they do share some interests (which ultimately hold them together (along with their love)) would be good character development (and also good story, as I'd like to see them involved in less sensationalist stuff). I've grown up with parents who are almost polar opposites, so I know first hand how volatile that kind of situation can be; but when there's love, anything is possible - which is where Chryed's supercouple status comes in. Now, if we can believe that Syed is in love with Christian, then everything else should fall into place... right?

[Ann_SS]

I would have loved to see Shabnam in those scenarios. Time for a recast if the original actress won't return. The Masoods are an asset to EE. We need more of them, not less.

These are the kind of stories that would bore me to tears on an American soap, but EE does very well. The bickering and daily conflict between couples is an EastEnders specialty. Christian is a flirt and Syed gets jealous at the drop of a hat. Syed also has a dodgy past that I hope that they bring up again. Kirkwood is setting Syed up with that mobile stand in the stall. I like that idea. It keeps Syed and Christian in the center of the action in the Square. I also want to see Syed become a part of the Beale clan because it would make Zainab's head explode and push her to backdown more quickly.

Usually, I scoff at the supercouple label being put on couples so early, but I buy it for Christian and Syed. Their drama in the last year has been legendary and there should be more to come. I really feel like Amira got the shaft in this story. She was treated very callously and is now an afterthought. However, I hope that she sends her baby to live with the Masoods next year. A custody battle between Syed/Christian/the Beales and the Masoods would be a great story to liven up the Square with people taking sides.

This next phase of Christian and Syed's relationship will give ME an opportunity to step up and really shape Syed into a strong character in his own right, but also as a man who is clearly in love with Christian and worthy of being his partner. I'm not convinced that ME is committed to this role. I wonder how long he will even be sticking around and if he is even interested in giving Syed any depth or playing Syed as a part of a gay couple. We'll see.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Ann_SS

[Ann_SS]

I loved this episode. The highlight was Libby showing Adam up, then slapping him and sending him on this way. Adam is such a scumbag and had that coming for a long time. I couldn't stop laughing. Good for Libby. Denise would be proud. Too bad Libby is leaving. I always liked her.

Christian and Syed were surprisingly sweet. Good to see them acting like a normal couple without the constant angst. I liked Shirley smiling when she heard Roxy talking about Christian about being in love. Good to see that they have their supporters in the Square. Syed reaching for Christian's hand in the face of his father's rejection was sweet. It is worrisome that Syed has not told Christian that the people at the mosque have rejected him as well. I hope that drives home for Christian that he is all that Syed has in the world now so he can't screw this up. ME made an effort today so I bought Syed's happiness about being with Christian.

Even as she gives her away her son's clothes and worries about what people are saying at the mosque, Zainab breaks my heart. She won't be able to keep up this rejection of Syed for very long and that will cause more problems between her and Masood.

My poor Tamwar. He is caught in the middle of this nightmare. I want him to take adorable Kamil and run away to go live with Syed and Christian.

What the hell did Roxy have on?

I try with Ronnie, but at this point I just want her secret out there so she and Jack can move on.

I thought Ben was gone. Why is he still on my screen? Blah. However, it was good to see Phil accept that he is responsible for the behavior that led to Ben's incarceration.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Ann_SS

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Today's episode:

Adam's last episode.

So glad Libby overheard his conversation with Peter and Lucy, and then proceeded to kick his ass out and throw all his stuff out on the street. What a nasty piece of waste he was, I loved when he told Libby that even Denise wouldn't slap someone in a wheelchair and then she slapped him.

Did Lucy and Libby set this up? Did anyone catch them exchanging smirks?

This episode seemed likely mostly set up for tomorrow's stuff with Ronnie's revelation. Those were chilling scenes where Glenda had on her wedding dress and told her about how Archie liked the way she looked inn it, and then when Ronnie overheard Roxy and Glenda watching old home videos of Archie and hearing him call her name as a little girl.

The scenes with Peggy and Phill at the Arches were very good, especially Phil admitting Ben is in prison because of him. I assume this is Charlie Jones' last week as Ben? Poor Ben is getting his ass kicked in prison...

Nina Wadia was very good in the scenes where Zainab found Syed's shirt and started to cry.

I don't know what to think of Syed and Christian. On one hand I'm glad this tortured and forbidden love crap is over and they've settled on being happy, but on the other hand, I just can't buy them as a legitimate couple or see why they think they can be happy together. And what was up with Roxy being so happy for Christian? I thought she against Syed for Christian? Then again, not like there was anything she could do about it, she might as well accept that they want to be together.

Tomorrow's stuff with Ronnie should be good...

Edited July 19, 2010 by Y&RWorldTurner

[Ann_SS]

Is any couple in the square happy? All these couples have moments of happiness, but mostly exist constant emotional turmoil and misery. Look at Ronnie and Jack. Just as it seemed like they were finally going to be happy Ronnie is going to talk about the rape, their wedding may never happen. I think that Syed and Christian are going to be the same way. I'm looking forward to them having regular couple problems (as much as family and religious rejection can be regular) and see how they deal with it as a couple.Today was a nice start.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Ann_SS

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Syed and Christian are the gay Ronnie and Jack, and the funny thing is, the on and of crap went on longer with Ronnie and Jack. I'm glad that part seems to be over with both couples for now.

EastEnders has never really been a couples show, and Syed and Christian don't appear to have really dealt with their problems. I would hate it if from now on they're all happy all the time and act as if there isn't any problems between them bubbling under the surface. Syed talks about being both gay and Muslim, that's fine, but show that struggle and I wonder if they ever will out of fear of pissing off Muslims once again.

Jack and Ronnie's wedding is still definitely in the works, the plans for it are in upcoming spoilers. Jack is going to be

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I hope when Lucy is recast they use her more and make her the lead young anti-heroine on the show.

With Lacey Turner/Stacey leaving, I think it's time to push Lucy into the role Stacey occupied for years.

I just wonder if they'll ever find an actress like Lacey Turner again, someone who can play anything and handle all they throw at her.

[DRW50]

I think Lucy was smiling to show support, and Libby smiled back.

I thought that Libby's line about pushing Adam off a cliff was excellent, but a lot of the other parts of this story were a bit forced. Giving Peter and Lucy scenes to themselves isn't the best idea, as they aren't the strongest of actors (Melissa Suffield tends to spit out all of her lines). I also didn't like how Adam used his being a paraplegic to try to shame people, as he's done before. I don't believe that a show has an obligation to show someone who is handicapped in a certain way, but I've been surprised at just how crass and one-note this character has been, increasingly so over the last four or five months. I don't know if this was supposed to be daring or what. At least he did have one or two scenes trying to comfort Libby, so that's better than nothing.

This is the type of thing which the show has veered more and more towards in the past decade or so, ready-made couples, they were just sold from the start and we were supposed to love them because...we were supposed to love them. I never had any idea why I should want Ronnie and Jack together, although the show is finally giving them some everyday scenes, which is a nice change. Those scenes where Ronnie was on the bed with the magazines torn up were very sad.

I also really liked the scene with Roxy and Glenda, that was the first time they've ever genuinely connected. Did anyone else think that doll looked like the outfit Roxy wore in that promo for Roxy and Ronnie's debut?

I don't really care about Christian and Syed as a couple, although at least Syed once or twice managed to have a smile around Christian which did not look like the Joker painted it on. I'm more interested in Zainab's reaction. I liked the scene where she automatically set Syed's place at the table. I'm glad that they aren't having her say or do nutso things just because they want viewers to be shocked, which is what kind of spoiled the aftermath of the reveal.

I'm also glad that people are finally confronting Phil about his poor parenting instead of just turning a blind eye as he abandons his son for months, as he has done before whenever he has a hard time.

I think he has a few more appearances.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Were Kat and Alfie and then Sharon and Dennis the last big couples they had and gradually developed?

I like Kat and Alfie (especially Kat), but during the Berridge era, it seemed like she forced them into every episode in some way when they didn't really belong in some cases, she also did the same with Den when he returned.

The show feels more balanced again, and really feels like a community again with people gathering and being nosy. There seems to be an attempt right now to bring more heart to the show.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Y&RWorldTurner

[DRW50]

In one sense, it was obvious from early on that the show was putting Kat/Alfie and Sharon/Dennis together, so that was preordained, but they did at least take a little more time to build them up. It seemed like Ronnie and Jack were thrown together almost immediately and the will they/won't they stuff started almost immediately. The whole thing was a burden on the actors because they were already being sold as a supercouple without anyone knowing if they were or not, like what happened with Sam and Jax on GH.

Steve Owen and Mel were also thrown together, and I wasn't a huge fan of them either, but it tends to depend on the couple. I do think that it works best when you don't write characters based on relationships. Sharon and Michelle, for instance, were both very well established so that they did not need to be in a certain relationship in order to be popular. Otherwise Sharon never could have had a successful return after being in such a huge relationship with Grant for so many years.

On the one hand I could say that some of the reactions to Libby slapping Adam were a bit cheesy but on the other I did appreciate that they were trying to bring some fun and some community spirit. I also think that Roxy is much better suited to this type of story, and her friendship with Christian, than the dramatics. So far Kirkwood is doing well with her.

I've complained before about some of Ronnie's sexual abuse story but I think they've gotten it right lately. The scene where she saw the video of herself as a little girl was harrowing. I must say that I am surprised at how on the edge they are going with this storyline, it's one of the more unsettling stories of this type I've seen in recent years.