Members Wales2004 Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 I think the point has to do with the fact that Todd is a character being written in a certain way and he is whatever he is because of how he is written and portrayed. There was something in the comment prior to this that made it sound as if Todd was a character capable of defining himself and his actions and reactions came from somewhere other than a writer's pen and an actor's interpretation of what was written. I think Todd should always be a twisted character. The most plausible object of Todd's revenge is Cole because he's the only one who really loves Marty. The problem is that Cole is not significant enough for Todd to go to these lengths. No matter how twisted Todd is, this sort of scheming over a teenager makes him a complete idiot. So John is the real object of his revenge and Marty really makes no sense to use against John since they didn't have much of a relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wales2004 Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 You reminded me of another reason that this doesn't work for me. Nothing is going to happen to Todd so there are no real consequences of all of this even if he comes to some short lived epiphany. The whole revenge against John would have been plausible if his precious Caitlin were Todd's victim. After it was over, she and John could leave Llanview and Todd going on as usual would be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 You forget, Todd and Blair were around the night John and Marty consummated their budding romance. Well, not in the same room, but you get my meaning. Todd was up close and personal for the birth of their relationship. He knows that losing her hurt John. No, she wasn't Caitlin to McLame yet but she was someone he was falling for. I hate them together and even I could acknowledge that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cheap21 Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 IDA, bc I do think that Marty is important to John. Using her would be a way to hurt John. The reason why John being the object of revenge makes no sense isnt bc of John's relationship towards Marty, but his relationship with Todd. John is not significant enough to Todd for him to do this. They do not have an ongoing feud, they arent rivals or hate each other. They dont care for the other, but there is no intense hatred there which would cause Todd to go after John on any level. It would be a waste of him time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wales2004 Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 This is probably one of those perception things and I'm always out in left field when it comes to those types of things. I know that Marty confessed her love to him. I know they were getting started but I still don't see that start as enough of anything to make her a good source of revenge. The way everyone seems to know minute details of other people's relationships it's no wonder that Todd didn't know that John slept with Natalie soon after Marty's demise. But I guess that was meaningless grief sex that was for Jared's sake and nothing significant to John. I guess I can nix plausibility and just look at this as John's duty to rescue the damsel in distress and Marty's amnesia, if it doesn't all come rushing back at once, can lead to a fresh start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JONNYSBRO Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 I think you are jumping way too much into conclusions. Susan Haskell would never play a Todd/Marty romance, she never would have signed up for that. She hated the idea back in 1995 when Michael Malone really wanted to go that route but then he quit in 1996. I like the chemistry TSJ and Susan have onscreen, it is different then her and RH. I have no doubts that is not the way Carlivati is going. Ron has a game plan and I cannot wait to see what is up his sleeve. What I love about the way Ron writes females is they are smarter, have careers, have wits, and are not weak, pathetic woman practically down to their knees for a man which was Higley's females. So before we jump to conclusions, lets see how it plays out first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wales2004 Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 I guess we'll disagree because I don't think she's important enough to him to sell me on the idea that she's a great source of revenge. John's probably not that hard to hurt though since he's every woman's hero. As far as his not being significant enough to Todd, I have to disagree on that. I don't see Todd as the type of character who needs to have any strong motivation for scheming against someone. He's been kind of trite in that area. He dislikes John and that's good enough. I'm sure siding with Cole and Blair doesn't help. I guess that the lengths to which he is going is a bit extreme for John though considering your point about that they have no feud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cheap21 Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 I dont have any problems with Marty and Todd as a romantic pairing as Ive wanted that in the past. I do agree with you Jonnysbro that people are jumping to conclusions unless there are spoilers which allude them being an item in this story. I honestly cant see that happening with the way things are being written. Marty has amnesia and I doubt once she remembers things that she will want to be anywhere near Todd, let alone shacking up with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wales2004 Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 Though a romantic relationship between a victim and her rapist would be extremely disturbing, I think a rapist holding his victim captive is very disturbing on many levels. It could be what people imagine might happen turns out to be much worse than what actually takes place but I can see how people's minds go there because Todd is a character that victimized Marty in the worst possible way and now he's using her amnesia as an opportunity to victimize her again. Even if that's not the writer's intent, it's easy enough to see it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 Are we really going to make this into a Jolie and Jarlie thing? Come on. I don't like John and Marty either, I hate John, but I acknowledge they had a romance going. Early stages, but it was going. As for Todd, I don't think he set out to victimize Marty, though he most certainly is. I think he just saw her as a means to an end to hurt John, and thought he'd be the hero by helping her heal at the same time, and was sure Marty would understand. That's how Todd's fucked-up mind works. But he is not the one encouraging the rapport Marty is working for at the moment. He seems downright uncomfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhinohide Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 I agree. That's not what I've been seeing. I mean we saw Marty crying over Ramsey, the guy who actually fired the bullet who sent her to her supposed death. She's helpless and totally reliant on the goodwill of others at the moment (which makes her boring IMO -- but forget that). Throwing something out there. What if Marty never gets her memory back? Doesn't that almost make her a new person? Not the same woman that Todd raped. So let's say she does fall in love with Todd. But then the truth is revealed to her. She doesn't remember the brutal rape, she's now in love with Todd, he's convinced her that he's not that same person, and she has no real memory of John or Coal. Faced with the truth about her past, what does she think, and what does she do about it? That's actually kind of an interesting story. I mean Todd is a rapist, but we have come to accept that he's a rapist who deserves to be loved on some level. Does removing Marty's memories make them viable? It's bizarre, I grant you, but is it as twisted? Whoa! I don't see a Jolie vs. Jarlie thing anywhere on this board ever. And positioning a discussion that way, isn't going to discourage it. I agree with the OP that I have never seen the kind of open hostility between Todd and John that would dredge up revenge motivation in Todd. John is annoying because he took a bite out of Todd's sandwich once, and he defends Cole. But I've never seen enough animosity between the two to justify holding a woman hostage just to hurt John. Cole is a possibility, but John is just a nuisance to Todd and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 I think Todd just started out trying to miseducate Marty about John and turn her against him. But I think what Todd is sensing now is the idea that if Marty doesn't remember, maybe he can forget all about his own ruined life. Not a romance per se, but a way for him to escape because Marty is being his friend...of course, that's only because she's brain damaged. No, her having amnesia in no way makes them viable. It's the curse of Todd and Marty that both sets of actors have great chemistry IMO, but it can never happen. I think what Todd sees when he sees a Marty who doesn't look at him with hate, though, is a way to start over somehow, not romantically, just in general, even though his wife and child hate him. Because if Marty doesn't remember, maybe he isn't the same person who lost everything...except of course, he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Juliajms Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 Whoa! I don't see a Jolie vs. Jarlie thing anywhere on this board ever. And positioning a discussion that way, isn't going to discourage it. I agree with the OP that I have never seen the kind of open hostility between Todd and John that would dredge up revenge motivation in Todd. John is annoying because he took a bite out of Todd's sandwich once, and he defends Cole. But I've never seen enough animosity between the two to justify holding a woman hostage just to hurt John. Cole is a possibility, but John is just a nuisance to Todd and vice versa. Yeah, I mean, I was never into any of John's pairings, so this isn't about Nat for me either. I just think that they didn't build up John and Marty enough before CC left, for me to buy that J&M are some huge love story right now. I could see a picture of Patrick or Cole making Marty feel better, but John? There just wasn't enough build up there for me to buy into this great romance yet. And as I said, I just don't think Todd has enough reason to hate John to go to this extreme. If John and Blair were hooking up it would make much more sense to me. But anyway, I'll go with it and see where it leads. At least OLTL is keeping me interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rocket Man Posted July 2, 2008 Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 O.....M......G....someone's calling out the OLTL's untouchable Pope of Llanview???!!! How dare she or he shall criticize your mostest, bestest headwriter like 4EVA in the show's 40 year history. I can see it now, Nelson Branco is gonna pull his weave out and get all hot & bothered about this in his weekly column. Look out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr. Jay S.W. Posted July 2, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 Hey Nelson!! <waves to Nelson> I know Nelson is reading this also. Branco, be sure to use my name, I like the attention, and I love your column. You are the truth. Is there some John talk in here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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