Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[chrisml]

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[DRW50]

Thanks. 

Tyler definitely got some good material out of her exit, even if the stuff with Dinah Lee and Curtis was annoying due to how Curtis was treated.

You could argue that Beck's departure was the departure that most affected and reshaped a soap. If not the most, then she's high up on the list. 

[Soaplovers]

I would agree with that.

I have a feeling that had Beck not opted to leave the soap.. she and Trucker would have settled down as a newly married couple with her having a problem with Curtis dating Dinah Lee.. the woman that Trucker cheated on her with.

So Trucker/Trisha would have been married and having conflict because of Dinah Lee still having a place in the Alden family due to her dating Curtis.  Once Trisha was gone.. and Curtis was written out, the show focused on pairing Trucker/Dinah Lee as an end game couple.

I also think once Jessica Collins leaves in mid 1994, that also reshaped the show.. especially when her replacement didn't fare well and was written out within a few months.

[EricMontreal22]

I think this is a great observation.  I do wonder if some of that was down to how Nixon had started writing story and plot outlines.  By this point (maybe even by the mid 70s) many have discussed how she *didn't* write detailed story outlines anymore--the focus more was on a mood or theme and ABC simply allowed that because they trusted her at this stage (in her "memoir" I think even Megan McTavish talks about Nixon's writing in this way in the 90s and she basically seems to admit that it worked for Nixon.  But if Nixon wasn't in charge of the daily execution of these ideas...)

What was with the ABC soaps around that time bringing in Aussie "hunks" from Heartbreak High?  Richard (Corey Paige?) Tanner on AMC (Vince Poletto) OK not from Heartbreak High but didn't Ingo Rademacher start on GH around this same time?

[Franko]

And then to break the trend, Thorsten Kaye (German-British) on OLTL.

[DRW50]

Corey was the first. Then Ingo 5-6 months later. And then Vince was the last gasp. 

[EricMontreal22]

Right--I did think of that, as it was around the same few years.  Accents I guess...

[SoapCurios]

Hello to everybody!

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I'm writing a series of essays about the first time of a LGBT character in US soaps. I already have datas about Sharon Duvall in DAYS (1977) as first Bisex, Lynn Carson in AMC (1983) as first Lesbian, Hank Elliott on ATWT (1989) as first Gay (someone have or can find the episode in which Paul Ryan finds out about Hank and does not take it very well? I have seen Hank's coming out to Iva and when Hank gets a bullet to save Paul's life from the latter evil father and when he gets tested for HIV after finding out Charlie's diagnosis, but Soap Opera Digest recaps are too much concises...) and Billy Douglas on OLTL (1992) as first LGBT teen in both daytime and primetime TV (I have seen all the episodes on You Tube. BTW, what a great storyline, why it was ignored by the Emmys? Andrew Carpenter and Billy's father players are both really great in their roles! Oh, well, if OLTL was not nominated for Best Drama in 1994 with Marty's gang rape story which won four major awards and was spectacular, no surprise at all - sadly) and I have read something about Azure in The City (1996) as first Trans, but I'd like to see the episode where Bernado finds out and Azure confirms what is said in that newspaper to have something to quote. I like quoting, it gives the essays more depth. I already read the biweekly recaps from Soap Opera Digest on Tumblr and single episodes recaps on IMDB, but I'd like to have more to write about. And something more about critics and public opinions - I only knows that the storyline was rapidly axed because of bad writing and bad performance by Carlotta Chung, but I have nothing to quote.

 

PS Thank you @JAS0N47 for your incredible and rich site (and work on it). In particular for the Nielsen ratings on weekly basis lists since 1974 and for everything about Sharon Duval - specially for the script of the confession episode dated 23 May 1977! I'm not a DAYS viewers (I'm Italian, I live in Italy and on You Tube there is almost nothing if not short videos), but I've seen some clips of Marlena's first possession (Deidre Hall is terrific in it! Storyline is garbage, but it has its chilling moments and it is funny - I laugh everytime I remember Kristen say to Marlena "according to the book of demonology"! Was she an espert of demons or what!? ) and read on Soap Opera Central daily recaps about infamous Melaswen (brainwashed Marlena has a particular sense of humor - killing ex alcoholic Maggie with a bottle of wine and Alice with her donuts...), so I know something about the soap. Little, but better than nothing.

[DRW50]

Welcome @SoapCurios it is nice to see new people here. Many episodes from The City still aren't available, but if I find any that touch on Azure's story, I will post them.

[SoapCurios]

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! ✌

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[VelekaCarruthers]

I don't know if this counts for you but Bill Bell did a terrible short plot with an overweight character (Joann) who tried to French kiss Kay Chancellor.....if you google you'll find a link called Lezwatch.tv that has an article about it.

[dc11786]

The Azure C. plot is during the early days of "The City" when it still is, quite frankly, not very good. And when it gets better, there is still such a hostile quality to material than even enjoyable material like the Gino/Tracey engagement party lacks the humanity it should. 

Something that I don't think is mentioned much, and I feel is noteable is that the sex scene between Azure and Bernardo is played as the climax to a long romantic build up complete with a musical montage to the Eagles' "Love Will Keep Us Alive." Bernardo's reaction is absolutely awful, but I think the reveal was meant as a stumbling block to their relationship.

I'm not sure exactly where they would have gone with them, but I would have had Azure accused of being Jared Chase's murderer because he was involved in outing her (Malcolm may have as well). I would have used this to reunite Azure and Bernardo, who believed in her innocence. It may have played too closely to the trope that trans people are deviants so I would have made sure it was clearly that she was being falsely accused. 

For your research, Tony Cardello (an offscreen character) was the gay son of a mob boss, Vince Cardello, on the CBN serial "Another Life." He's referenced as gay in a couple episodes in early December 1981. The references are very negative. In the summer of 1982, Tony is said to be arriving soon with his mother Louise, but they never materialize as there is a change in writers. 

[j swift]

It's kismet – I was just thinking about Azure C the other day and revisited some of the press from that era. Reading it now, it’s undeniably cringeworthy how often the articles emphasized that the actress was a cisgender woman. It wasn’t framed as a critique of The City for not casting a trans actress—it felt more like a reassurance to viewers that, yes, the storyline involved transgender themes, but they weren’t actually going to show anything.

ABC ran an ad in TV Guide that teased that Azure would confess her past – that she “was once a he” – to her love interest Bernardo (similar to the onscreen headline in their tabloid). Rather than focusing on thoughtful representation, the press framed the twist as a dramatic surprise for audiences, to capitalize on shock value.  It was clearly not treated like other social issues had been on ABC Daytime.  They were usually more respectful, and pedantic toward the audience, where this was just about revealing a secret.

Of course, the irony is that the only actual protests came from GLAAD over ABC's ignorance, rather than anyone from the right, as they had feared.

Edited May 18 by j swift

[SoapCurios]

@VelekaCarruthers thank you, but was not Katherine who had feelings for her friend Joann because she missed her deceased husband and felt lonely and tried to kiss her and Joann ended their friendship? I have not seen anything on You Tube and I don't know if the kiss was aired or not. I still have to consider the kiss between Bianca and Lena on AMC in 2003 as the first lesbian one on US soaps.

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@dc11786 thank you for the detail about Azure and Bernardo's sex scene which I ignored - or, better said, I know Azure comes out to Bernardo right after having sex when he want to know the true after reading the scoop by Jared Chase, but I didn't know their first time was showed on TV. Now I really want to see this episode. I'm reading on Wiki that Another Life went on air on Christian Broadcasting Network and maybe that is the reason for which Tony was an unseen character as Stanley Walker in Will & Grace.

@j swift thank you too for the answer. Very helpful. ✌ It seems this storyline was a mess and very bad. What a shame and missed big opportunity.

 

 

[raffaella]

Good morning, I found on youtube the movie "Final Mission" (1984) with C.Tudor ! She  is stunning!