Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[DeliaIrisFan]

This commentary on the Loving murders and the transition to The City is fascinating - especially Kane's blog, which I am just now reading.  It's been a long time since my college humanities courses, and I have my doubts that Esensten and Brown were intentionally drawing from Greek tragedy, but the Gwyn/Medea parallels are striking.

I was still in my 30s when I first watched the serial killer storyline on YouTube during COVID: so, I guess, the tail end of ABC's target demo for The City (just a few decades removed thanks to technology).  And I agree completely that the most interesting material got resolved (or was left forever unresolved) in Corinth, and the stories they were setting up on TC paled in comparison.  Did anything ever come of the business with the dead body in the carpet, or was it just a cold open?

One thing that's interesting about demos is that there were NO teens on TC.  In that sense, the show had at least the potential to be a more mature contrast to some of what the rest of daytime was prioritizing.  I was an adolescent at the time, and I actually checked out TC at first after seeing the publicity.  As a closeted teen, what the show billed itself as was probably much closer to my escapist fantasy than the heteronormative teen stories that other soaps were offering up in the mid-late '90s: growing up and moving to NY.  But even at that age, I was quickly able to discern that those characters' lives were much less interesting than the ads.

In any event, I wonder, when did the 12-17 demo (officially or unofficially) become the holy grail for soaps?  Did TC maybe even die by its own sword in part because it was SO specific in its youth focus?

Also, this is off topic, but was "found family" really the draw of Melrose Place?  At the beginning, I know that was the focus, but once they revamped it, I have no recollection of any specific scenes focused on friendships (other than Matt, as a supporting character).  I suppose the few characters who didn't become completely cutthroat still hung out together at the bar sometimes, but I feel like that was mostly for plot purposes.  Again, sorry to go OT.

Edited December 17, 2023 by DeliaIrisFan

[Khan]

I know PASSIONS was the first time I'd heard anyone who worked in soaps talk about the 12-17 demos, but that might not be when that particular demo became so highly coveted.  (Maybe it was during JER's DAYS 1.0?)

[chrisml]

I remember there was some discussion (I believe in Soap Opera Digest) about demographics, and how the 12-17 demo loved Jeanne Cooper's character Kay on YR. There was surprise that that demo didn't just want to see teenagers. Yet that never translated to a shift in focus. Instead, all the shows just ignored the data. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by chrisml

[dc11786]

The dead body was eventually tied to the mob storyline, but, at what point, I can't remember. It was well into 1996 when it was, and more than likely wasn't the original intention. I want to say it was an informant on the Soleitos. 

I think teen characters would have been hard because there would have had to be some sort of parental figures and since "The City" was desperately trying to avoid traditional family structures, this wasn't going to be the case. The only thing they could do is a private boarding school, but I imagine those aren't a thing in the city (but I'm sure if there are someone will correct me lol) I think Zoe was suppose to be fairly young. Ally should have been around 21 when the show started, but really the story and aging of Tyler probably put her later into her 20s. I think Frankie, who was only on very briefly, should have been under 20. 

I know I'm in the minority, but I don't think the found family unit was executed well or had the long term potential as the sole form of famialiar structure. I think the contrast of the tradition and the found family would have been neat, but the show rarely got as deep as it should with its core characters, expecting the depth of supporting family members would have been a big ask. There were hints of the potential of the conflict of traditional vs. found with the Roberts family secrets, the revelation of Azure's identity, and even the Zoe/Richard paternity drama filled romance. At the end of the day though, it just never materialized into anything compelling.

[DRW50]

I remember similar polls where GH viewers around that age said Lila Quartermaine was one of their favorite characters.

[Contessa Donatella]

Well, in a way it was coveted because it's what they got. But they had some difficulty figuring out how to monetize it. It's not what they initially wanted. But, that's because they initially wanted everything. They thought he was going to be able to deliver all demos! Attract almost everyone who would watch TV. From 12 to 45, although they'd have done 12 to 36, okay. NBC execs were in total shock. They shook that off though & got to work. That is one time I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall. 

[Franko]

Not to go too far in another direction, but I wonder how much of that had to do with how Lila was being written-played in that era. Very Mary the Good Fairy.

Makes you wonder what the kids thought of Kate Rescott or Isabelle Alden.

[Khan]

I think I see where you're coming from, @dc11786.  Although a "found family" has its unique advantages, having a "traditional" family with multiple generations lends itself very well to conflicts, too.  Like you've said, it all comes down to how families are explored, and TC apparently didn't explore its' "family" very well.

[Contessa Donatella]

All of my life I have heard of soap fans who were interested in older people on shows when they were teens. It was certainly true of us when I was a teen. But the point was that we were theoretically interested in everyone. Age didn't matter. Looks, voice, character traits, quirkiness, these things mattered, on 17 yr old & on 45 yr olds & even grandparents! 

[Khan]

It doesn't surprise me that JC/Kay appealed to 12-17 year olds.  After all, Kay Chancellor was a woman who looked fabulous all the time and had just enough money to tell people to go [!@#$%^&*] themselves.  When you're twelve years old, that's a life goal, lol!

[Vee]

The youth set on TC was more than enough for the show's demographics, I think. That was the focus in those days, hot young twentysomethings.

Found family was not the draw of MP, but it was a common thing you saw in dramas or sitcoms at the time (Friends, etc.). It's true the popularity of MP evolved later in its more high-octane, super-soapy storytelling that began near the end of its first season, but I don't think TC's setup was at all uncommon for ensemble TV.

[dc11786]

Isabelle Alden was in and out for much of the 1990s (offscreen for a good chunk of 1991 and 1994) and played by three separate actors. She might not have inspired viewer loyalty. Kate may have given her tough love approach with Ally. I could see how early to mid 1990s Lila Quartermaine would enjoy the sage advice she would dispense and acting as a calming port in the storm that was the Q clan. 

You are right. That really was the bigger issue. Not necessarily the family structure concepts, but the failure to dig deep into anything. Connected to that, the show moved too quickly at times to really appreciate anything because the story really drove everything and there seemed to be fewer meaningful character moments that were connected to the plot.

Also, tonally, there was something quite off. While I really enjoy the fake Quartermaines sequence, there real meat is the pain Tracey must be feeling about not having that connection to her family, and, from what I've seen, that wasn't explored enough. Everything, everywhere seems to be about a snarky response or an attempt at shock and awe rather than ever just really trying to humanize the characters. 

[Khan]

I wonder if TC took that approach deliberately in order to avoid looking like another hoary old soap opera and instead look hip and contemporary.

[Paul Raven]

The desired demo is Women 18-34. That's who advertisers want to catch. The belief is that they are most prepared to spend money and try out different things.

Teen demo was secondary. Were there ads aimed at teens? NBC tried to push that the teens would grow into the desired demo but what appeals to a teen -campy Passions type writing has lesser appeal as viewers mature. And do you want to be watching what your kid sister is into?

[Franko]

Excellent points.