I love your approach to master storytelling, Sylph. I do. But didn't you ever watch for sheer fun? To be excited? To rush home on a Monday, practically jumping out of your skin to find out what happened on your soap? Didn't you get a thrill over a character finding out a dreaded secret, and unleashing on the Secret-Keeper? There's disagreeing with people, and then there's laughing at people because they're sad for loving an 80's cliche. It's a little elitist.

Exactly.

Me, I love watching stories when secrets are build up and build up and build up and then BAM! BOOM! CRASH! It all comes out and you're like, "YES! FINALLY! I've been waiting for this for so long!" I love that stuff. That's what I want to see. And the great thing is, there's MORE secrets to come out. So you can expect these huge ass threads for quite a while.

I HATED what I saw of Paul Rauch's OLTL, I think he creatively raped the show. OLTL's golden era was the late 70's/early 80's when Gordon Russell was HW and Joseph Stuart was EP. The stuff I saw on youtube from that era was EXCEPTIONAL.

I can't say I agree with you, Y&RWorldTurner, in regards to the Paul Rauch era of OLTL, but the rest of your statement...? Co-sign, amen, word, and ditto.

Yes, yes, yes. Just wave pretty shiny things in front of us, and we'll be content. How sad we are.

A-a-a-a, Merlin! (Madam Mim quote) I didn't say fans are sad & pathetic! I said it's somehow disheartening that what's left of this genre is just golden dust floating in the air... That reflects suns beams here and there. Sometimes, sometimes not. Sad is that another golden age won't come.

Why do you stoop to our level?

I love your approach to master storytelling, Sylph. I do. But didn't you ever watch for sheer fun? To be excited? To rush home on a Monday, practically jumping out of your skin to find out what happened on your soap? Didn't you get a thrill over a character finding out a dreaded secret, and unleashing on the Secret-Keeper? There's disagreeing with people, and then there's laughing at people because they're sad for loving an 80's cliche. It's a little elitist.

I have no problem with elitist. I don't know why people dread elitism. And yes, I watched things for fun - that's what trash serves for. You know an occasional camp, silly primetime soap or a terribly, stupidly written telenovela... I don't want that in daytime. I want genuine drama, about people, their feelings, discoveries, tragedies, quests for "another wold", bad things happening to good people, the ways in which someone escapes from evil and misfortune... That kind of thing, and lots more. No gimmickry, less camp, less flashy dazzling details that are shallow on the inside.

P.S. And when every other show finally starts to deliver something that resembles soap opera storytelling, then I'll be MORE than happy to judge Ron and OLTL accordingly.

I want genuine drama, about people, their feelings, discoveries, tragedies, quests for "another wold", bad things happening to good people, the ways in which someone escapes from evil and misfortune... That kind of thing, and lots more. No gimmickry, less camp, less flashy dazzling details that are shallow on the inside.

Then watch OLTL. OLTL hasn't done anything gimmicky or showcasing any "flashy dazzling details that are shallow on the inside." For example, all these Joe references are happening for a reason because Jessica's life is mirroring's Viki's. There's nothing flashy or shallow about that detail!

A-a-a-a, Merlin! (Madam Mim quote) I didn't say fans are sad & pathetic! I said it's somehow disheartening that what's left of this genre is just golden dust floating in the air... That reflects suns beams here and there. Sometimes, sometimes not. Sad is that another golden age won't come.

I have no problem with elitist. I don't know why people dread elitism. And yes, I watched things for fun - that's what trash serves for. You know an occasional camp, silly primetime soap or a terribly, stupidly written telenovela... I don't want that in daytime. I want genuine drama, about people, their feelings, discoveries, tragedies, quests for "another wold", bad things happening to good people, the ways in which someone escapes from evil and misfortune... That kind of thing, and lots more. No gimmickry, less camp, less flashy dazzling details that are shallow on the inside.

Okay, you redeemed yourself by quoting Sword in the Stone.

I just hate seeing any fan feel stupid or foolish for enjoying themselves in this thread, or because they're liking this show. Is Ron perfect? Hell no. I still want longer scenes, where there's time to explore momentum. As I said in the writers' thread, I want One Life to be more diverse, like it used to be. There's still so much this show can achieve to be. But at the moment, it's light years away from ATWT or GL or GH or AMC. And I think that should be celebrated. It's a step in the right direction.

I can't say I agree with you, Y&RWorldTurner, in regards to the Paul Rauch era of OLTL, but the rest of your statement...? Co-sign, amen, word, and ditto.

My biggest gripe with Ruach is his overly campy style and tendencies to let that vision overpower storytelling on his shows. I often wonder what the hell happened to him after his 70's success on Another World. Was it Harding Lemay who was the driving force behind everything there? From what I've seen of Rauch's OLTL and GL, not only did he enjoy camp, he seemed to favour certain actors and characters, at the expense of others.

I also think Rauch's vision for OLTL (and later GL) steered far off from what Agnes Nixon envisioned in terms of diversity and socially conscious storytelling. Though, like you, I wasn't a big fan of Malone when he tried to bring the show back to its "roots."

I want genuine drama, about people, their feelings, discoveries, tragedies, quests for "another wold", bad things happening to good people, the ways in which someone escapes from evil and misfortune...

Oh, but that's so cliched.

I often wonder what the hell happened to him after his 70's success on Another World.

Oh, I think Rauch was Rauch even then.

However, what I've determined about him, as a producer, is that he is someone who allows his HW to have his/her vision for the show. That's why the quality of his shows have varied so much over the years. (Lemay's AW, Peggy O'Shea's OLTL? Fantastic. Everything else...? Not so much.) Yes, Rauch can be pompous, overbearing and a complete misogynist; but I don't believe he ever interfered all that much with whatever his HW attempted to do at the time.

At least, that's what I've gathered from reading about him over the years.

As for Michael Malone, yeah, it's no secret I never cared as much for his work as did others. (Perhaps, in that respect, I know kind of how Sylph feels?) However, I could have forgiven him for a lot if he genuinely wanted to write for characters who weren't relative newcomers or characters of his own creation. Alas.....

Edited June 9, 200817 yr by Khan

OLTL is amazing, by comparison. by default.

on its own its just good, far from amazing.

that said i love it. well most of it.

overall, this show is just rocking socks off left and right I'll take it over the schlop that higley serves up anyday

and I hate to break it to all the soap purists out there: the days of Irna Phiips, Bill Bell, Agnes Nixon, Douglas Marland and Harding Lemay are over so watch your tapes and reminisce, but other than that, you won't see that calibre in daytime anymore so lower your expectations. Essentially I surf from soap to soap because life's too short, but really when it comes down to it this is a genre created to make bored housewives want to buy dish soap, or any other P&G product.

When the writers throw you a bone and you have something way more than just "watchable" enjoy it because every show has its up and down cycle.

Edited June 10, 200817 yr by ian

Not reading it.

How can you people read spoilers when a show is so good???!!! Be a kid again (remember those days?) and watch soaps without not knowing what's going to happen!

when else would you read them? when a shows bad i dont even watch it let alone read spoilers.

Who says the days of Grade A soap opera is dead? Ron has only been back for months. Who knows what he'll cook up within this next year?

when else would you read them? when a shows bad i dont even watch it let alone read spoilers.

LOL. I love reading spoilers when a show that I used to love is really bad. It lets me know if things are going to get worse or better.

In fact, I think I rush to the Y&R spoiler threads just to figure out if I should skip out on a few episodes (like Gloria poisoning Jeffrey ).

BUT NEVER OLTL. Because the surprise of 2008 in daytime was Dorian charging the stockholders meeting, drugging Charlie, and outing Jared AND Natalie AND taking over BE. I had known everything else that was happening during May sweeps and, while they were highly entertaining, this took the cake.

I cannot wait until this anniversary. For Christ's sakes!!

when else would you read them? when a shows bad i dont even watch it let alone read spoilers.

I've been reading them up to now and am toying with the idea of going spoiler free. Did reading them help? Yes, in a sense of "Oh this looks good! I better get my tea or my tall drink and snacks ready, and turn the phones to voice mail"

see, i check out spoiler spoiler's for bad shows, but i read 'previews' when i like a soap.