DAYS: Talk about a slap in the face!

[KLN]

I didn't say you're not allowed to have an opinion, and I didn't say you're wrong. I just said it's something I've noticed. Don't take it personally.

[Dan]

It seems DAYS is the only soap that has these rabid fan!@#$%^&*]es who do nothing but whine, complain, and start wars with other fanbases and people who watch for the entire show.

Oh my darling Bree. You couldn't be more wrong. Just ask Laura Wright. She has a nice little Big-Bird-shaped voodoo doll courtesy of those damn Danny/Michelle fans. And you know, the machinations of fanbases DO turn you off to the characters. And a word of warning to all: it turns TPTB off to the characters as well. I remember a quote from Robert Newman about GL's Vanessa/Matt fan base. No matter what they tried to do with the characters, the fanbase would bitch. So you know what they did? Sent them off the canvas. Be careful what you wish for folks.

[KLN]

Well, I mean... it makes sense.

If the show tries this and tries that and this and that... and still, nobody's happy with what they're seeing, it sends a message to the writers that the couple isn't a creative success and it's time to throw in the towel with them. You can only water a plant that doesn't grow for so long before finally tossing it out.

[Evan]

The only DAYS fanbase that can legitimately complain is Jack/Jen(Matt/Missy) fans: think of all the crap we've had to put up with for the last few years - in comparison, I think John/Marlena fans have little to be pissed off about!

[SteveFrame]

I'm not offended by either comment.

Just because someone judges what someone did by their last work does not make them hate a person. It just gets old that you are not supposed to say anything negative about Hogan ever.

When he was at ATWT the first 2 years was one of my favorite times ever on the show, but the last 2 years were hit and miss. Hogan set a pattern and it has nothing to do with him being a good writer it is just a pattern. And right now he is living up to that pattern. The pattern he is following right now is exactly what he did at ATWT. That is all I am saying.

His pattern of the way he writes has nothing to do with whether Days will be good under him or not. For the whole time he was at ATWT he wrote all the time for the same characters - keeping them on the front burner the whole time. He would occassionally bring others to the forefront for a very small amount of time.

He is doing that right now on Days. I see nothing wrong with making that comparison esp. when it is going on.

Yes Days has had a pattern before of switching the frontburners around but unless Corday enforces that with Hogan, all I am saying is don't expect that to happen anymore.

And Drew I hope it does work for Days better than it did with ATWT, because after 4 years of the same characters being on week after week in frontburnger stories ATWT fans were tired of it. But hopefully it will work with Days but unless it changes from what it is right now I highly doubt that it will because there are a lot of fans already not happy. Just imagine what it will be if it doesn't change in the next 2 years that Days is on NBC.

[DrewH]

*puts umbrella up*

It's raining, it's pouring...

[KLN]

What?

I didn't say that you can't have your opinion. That's perfectly fine. All I said was that I noticed alot your judgement in regards to Hogan stems from his work at ATWT. I'm not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing... just an observation.

[Ives]

Thanks for pointing out some facts, SteveFrame. No offense, however, but these types of comparisons are a bit frustrating. By displaying the numbers for just those two, it over emphasizes the "competition" that certain fans are feeling. Sure S/K had more collective appearances than J/M, but I cannot understand how those numbers offer any support for the idea that J/M's airtime is suffering because of S/K. I am not saying that you are necessarily making this argument, but for certain fans that idea is being reiterated over and over on many boards.

Looking more fully at the numbers,

Bo and Hope collectively had 221 appearances since June 06. That is twice of J/M. Yet, there have not been accusations about Bo and Hope stealing from J/M. Individually, Shawn (108) and Sami (110) had more appearances than J/M collectively. And they each still have a front burner story at this time. Others like Belle, Chelsea, and EJ also had significant appearances and still have main stories now. So it is curious to me why S/K are the ones getting accused of stealing the airtime from J/M.

I can understand being frustrated when you enjoy watching a couple and they are not on a lot or have a weak storyline - that is unfortunate for the J/M fans. However, I still cannot understand why Steve and Kayla are such hostile targets of this frustration. If Hogan and Corday wanted them in a center story right now, I am sure they would be regardless of Steve and Kayla's storyline.

[SteveFrame]

I just happen to be a fan of him on both shows, and so far he is following a pattern and sadly he just keeps doing all the stuff that I hated about his stint at ATWT. He did so many things good there, but he did have a lot of faults.

Right now he has greatly improved the day to day writing, and that has improved the quality or inspired Wyman and Corday to work on the overall quality. It has definitely improved the acting because now the writers have something good to say and don't look so stupid.

But the biggest thing that he did bad was that he wrote for the same characters all the time. He had his favorites and wrote for them. As bad as JER was I never saw him being guilty of that. He wrote the same bad stuff for everyone and gave everyone a bad story, all the way to even Mickey & Maggie.

As far as my judgment goes Kenny your past experiences with anyone is going to enter into how you judge them. Right now Sheffer is not copying exact stories but he is writing Days just like he wrote ATWT. Yes the shows are different, but there is so much of it that is resembling Hogan's ATWT right now. And I am not the only one that has noticed it. Several have posted about it. Yes the two shows are different - we see that.

I see this as the same thing when Higley went to OLTL. All of us as Days fans warned them what she was like. And Higley proved it to be right and jsut as she ruined Days, she ruined OLTL. Finally with the help of a new co-head and a consultant she is getting back on track.

Well Hogan is not ruining Days he is changing it. Some things are for the good, but some things are going to be way different for Days fans. It will be just like Y&R. Latham has changed it and most old Y&R fans have not accepted it. Many old Days fans won't accept Hogan's new version of Days even if it is better. I see Latham's version of Y&R's to be better but many fans don't and I can understand that.

I'm sorry if I sounded testy, but it just gets old that you can't bring up one of Hogan's faults without people saying you are judging him to harshly, or you are just a disgruntled fan, or make snarky catty remarks like the one above, etc. It just gets old.

I am loving Days again, but I don't see it as all perfect. There are lots of problems because Days is being changed. And right now all the characters that Hogan is writing for are the characters that I like the least on the show. I love the stuff they are doing but I don't have the attachment to them that I do others. I love Sami & Lucas - they are one of my faves but right now I am not enjoying what Hogan is doing to them. Even as bad as the quad story was I still liked Lucas & Sami, but I don't now. They are flat. So that has a big influence.

I have been agreeing with you Kenny through a lot of this but I also see the other side too. And I am sorry if I can't overlook the fact that right now what Hogan is doing is exactly what he did on ATWT. The shows might be different but that fact can't be ignored.

[PhoenixRising05]

Kenny, Bree, King, Drew....great posts. You all are right in point.

I still don't get what all the fuss is about but I gave up trying to figure it out. Some fanbases have had it in for Hogan since his third week because they expected the couples back together and in story right away. Days fanbases always find something to complain about. That and they never know what they want. They nitpick the hell out of everything. I long for the days back in the 80's and 90's where there were fanbases but they were patient, rational, and weren't so obsessed with seeing their couple or favorite characters all the time. Like Kenny said, it's a rotation. The Fall was full of Bo/Hope and John/Marlena. They have only been backburnered for a month and people create such an uproar. I know J&M fans have a reason to be upset but it's only been a month. They are still around and Hogan gave them alot of attention in the Fall, which tells me he wants to write for them. Same for Bo and Hope.

I have no problem with Steve bringing the ATWT comparison in but I don't agree with alot of it. I think some of the ways he writes characters is similar but I don't think that is a big deal. The stories are different and he is writing for the vets. He wrote for them for the whole Fall and we have still seen the big 4 during this backburnering period. They have not been off completely. I think 2001 was much worse as we didn't see them AT ALL and the people featured were very hard to tolerate (except for Jack/Jen/Greta but even their story was annoying at times).

The rabid fanbases are the worst they have ever been and, like Bree said, they aren't good for Days and they certainly aren't good for Days. They are the reason for so many of the problems on Days in the past few years IMO.

[SteveFrame]

I understand what you are saying. Exactly what you are saying. As I said I earlier I like John & Marlena. They are in my top 5 couples but not my faves. Bo & HOpe are my faves.

The only reason I pointed out those 2 was because this thread has been focused on those two.

The reason Bo & Hope have never been accused is the PRODUCERS fault and not anyone elses. The producers made a very bad decision in bringing Patch & Kayla back and taking John & Marlena off the screen for 8 weeks.

Corday knows these fan bases. He helped to create them, he has used them in the past, and he knows how they are. If he had been smart he would have just backburnered John & Marlena for 8 weeks, but taking them completely off the screen, announcing that he was doing it - esp. in the midst of so many rumors going on and them not speaking much about the rumors at the time. At the same time this happens Steve & Kayla come back.

I mean it left a very bad appearance. And I said then that this was not going to be good and would create a fan base war like no other.

Then Days messes up this and uses the stuff for Patch & Kayla in the midst of it. Someone has not been thinking at all.

But that is the reason why Bo & Hope has not been brought into it. It was a whole series of bad circumstances that could have been avoided with a little thinking.

[Pest Spray]

Because it has nothing to do with airtime. It has to do with the material.

[Toups]

I just have to say it feels good to not be just invested in 1 or 2 characters. I like a being a fan of the entire show and it doesn't really matter which characters are on, as long as the story is good.

If John/Marlena aren't on but the show is good, so be it.

If Bo/Hope aren't on but the show is good, so be it.

If Steve/Kayla aren't on but the show is good, so be it.

If Jack/Jen aren't on but the show is good, so be it.

If Shawn/Belle aren't on but the show is good, so be it.

If Sami isn't on but the show is good, so be it.

And you could put any character/couple in that phrase.

[KLN]

Toups, I believe this is the best post that you've ever created.

I completely agree! LoL

[SteveFrame]

I totally agree Kenny. It is a great post. The best I have read in a long time and sums it up great.

The only thing I think can be added for me is that I would say for me it doesn't matter what couple is on is for me as long as the story is good. That may be what Toups means too - not sure. I look at the story and the show as 2 separate entities.

For me I can enjoy anyone is the story is good. I am not a Patch & Kayla fan as everyone knows, but Monday was one of the best shows in a long time on Days for me and it was because of them. I absolutely got them and loved them that day. Because of what was written for them that day. That is what made the difference.

Other days the actual show has been good, filled with wonderful dialogue, great acting, and great quality but for me I just didn't enjoy the show that much because the actualy story playing out was boring or uninteresting.

I'll explain it with a movie example. The English Patient is listed by many critics as one of the best movies of all time, and won many awards. It is supposed to have top notch acting, great cinematography and direction but I wouldn't know because the damn story is so bad it puts me to sleep and I can't get interested in it. So the whole greatness of the movie is lost on me.

For months ATWT didn't lose any of it's quality but my once favorite show has dropped way down in my rankings over the last few months because it has been so damn boring and uninteresting and featuring way too many of the same characters.

So to me as a Days fan, an ATWT fan, any shows fan it is not just about who is on, but the story has got to be there. And I will admit the only thing for me that can help the show when it is boring is to have characters that I care about. If that is not there sorry I just lose interest.